Why the dislike for larger families?

[momtoboys]

Posting here for traffic.

There was a post yesterday from a mom who had five children. I was surprised at the level of vitriol leveled at her for her larger than normal family. Things were said such as “you can’t properly parent five children”, “well, that’s your fault for having so many children”!

I have five children who are now grown. It made me wonder if people in my real world were thinking those mean things about my family. Why does it seem to be such a big deal? People choose the number of children that will complete their families. For some families it is one. Others it is six. Why do people seem to judge harshly if it is a higher number?

You are saying what everyone with large families says. It’s hard and you feel disappointed when other people aren’t willing to help you out.

But as Sir Humphrey Appleby put it, “It’s your job, Prime Minister, and you wanted it.”

Whilst his theory was imperfect it is worth having a quick read about Thomas Malthus whose theory of overpopulation was published in 1798. This is a long time before any climate change debate.

I’m not sure the vaping 16 year old is another matter - OP clearly couldn’t cope with her existing kids, went on to have another and is now complaining that it’s even harder.

People have limited sympathy for stuff like that.

they all have had 1-2-1 time it has always been encouraged it is them that has asked if a specific sibling of theirs can come too because they’d enjoy it also and they want to share that time. Why does it have to be a negative? I talk more about the older five because like I said there is a big age gap between the older five with my ex husband and our two little ones from my second marriage. Eldest five are (18) (16) (15) (13 and 13) the youngest two are (3) and (2). I’m lucky because they are all very close the oldest 5 are still best of friends now they are teenagers, they adore their younger two siblings but they are not expected to help with them in anyway (many assume they would be burdened, not in our home) you can view it negatively assume they didn’t have a choice but to request to share 1-2-1 time also assume they never did get that 1-2-1 time at other opportunities (which they did) because at times they requested to share time at times and that’s absolutely fine to view it that way, I would say that’s because maybe your experiences are very different either as a child from a larger family or a parent who hasn’t a large family themselves and that’s fine. I struggle to understand when my friends who have considerably less children than me and voice their struggles getting their housework done having children, juggling after school clubs or dental/drs or hospital appointments who heavily rely on outside help when their juggling is considerably lighter 🤷🏻‍♀️ but everybody copes differently in different circumstances. My mum for instance only had me and my sister, she is the first to admit she couldn’t have coped with more that two children. Everyone is different, am I perfect no certainly not but what parent is?! Like I said realistically will they have had as much time as some only children or smaller families, probably not but equally I know they have had more individual times regularly than other children I know from smaller families that go to before and after school clubs and have breakfast and tea before coming home to go to bed because of their parents circumstances jobs or shift pattern wasn’t my choice but doesn’t make it wrong if that’s what works for others I don’t assume their children are missing out I’m sure they make meaningful time for their children that works for them as individuals and a family, going on holidays abroad making memories for a week or two in the year, we don’t do holidays every year but that’s our choice 🤷🏻‍♀️. Everybody’s circumstances are different, just because it’s not our norm doesn’t mean it’s always the case that the children miss out, aren’t happy, nor are their needs not being met or they don’t individually know they are loved, valued, supported or have 1-2-1 time to develop as individuals as well as spend time as a whole family. I’m sure there will be families who struggle to juggle or claim benefits and keep having children but don’t work to provide for their families but it’s not always the case.

@AngelinaFibres I have known several families like that when I worked in Early Years and one in my extended family and a friend’s sister in my personal life. It’s very sad for the older children.

I will never forget the little girl I found trying on her friend’s lovely new coat and stroking the fabric, all her clothes were from car boots or hand me downs whilst each new baby had a brand new pram and clothes.

The ones I knew in my personal life also had a constant stream of new puppies and kittens that were rehomed when they weren’t cute any more, I think for some people it must be a kind of mental health problem or personality disorder.

Ok, so you would be able to facilitate somewhat regular 1 on 1 time for all 7 if they so wished (even though they apparently don't)? You have the support and means to do so? It's a lot about how you are coping, not so much about how your DC might feel and nothing about any of the dads. I'm not trying to be critical, it's just how it sounds as an outsider. I do obviously hope your DC agree with you and everything is fab.

I will admit to being perplexed by people who are in shitty marriages or life circumstances and voluntarily (not the ones who are coerced by abusive husbands) continue to birth more and more children to share the misery. Even more so those who expect their selfish, uninvolved husbands to turn over a new leaf the more babies arrive on the scenes.

Obviously that can apply to people with small families as much as large.

If you choose to have many children you're imposing yourself on others by default, e.g. larger buggies, vehicles, running riot in public etc. A phrase I heard many years ago helped me; when you have 3 or more children you'll need to be a very organised parent or give in to the chaos. The latter very often being the case nowadays.

In a world that is ever struggling for resources, having more than 2 children is very indulgent, an extravagance that many can't actually afford then they expect help and concessions. 100+ years ago people had more children because illness, wars etc meant not all would live beyond childhood. That is not longer the case for the majority of families.

What a narrow-minded, bigoted comment. ^

TBH nowadays, I know there are exceptions, but IMO there are largely two types of people who have large families. Those who have plenty of money and can afford nannies, as well as being able to feed, clothe and house them all to a good standard.

The other group expects the taxpayer to provide, or at least to help a great deal.

For many self-funded couples, having more than 2 or 3 children - or even more than one! - is nowadays a luxury they simply can’t afford. I do know of some who’d have loved to have more, but it would have been just too much of a stretch financially.

The key in our family is everyone has a voice obviously depending on age depends on how it’s voiced but everyone of the children is heard and listened too. It was asked how do I cope juggling and ensuring all has 1-2-1 time, there has never been one way works throughout all ages, it changes depending on ages, and has changed and developed over time. Just when you think you’ve cracked it something comes along and you’ve gotta tweak it to work. Sometimes for the children and our family things have changed for the better, sometimes not so much for the better as in as the older ones have got older like all/most children regardless on family size spending time with each other and their peers (they have their own friends and also share friends due to where we live and their close ages) is what they would choose rather than time with their mum. But saying that I always ask and hope they say yes but they each ask to do something specific now and again like pop into town for some girly time with myself, son likes the cinema, eldest daughter likes to go get her nails done the list is endless it may not be daily but without fail we all sit down at table most breakfast before work, school and college and at every tea time as a family and chat, every night I go in and chat to each individually before bed to chat, and maybe like most I have mum guilt can we all honestly say we never doubt ourselves and worry are we actually doing enough because I do, which means I do regularly check in with them all as individuals, I am aware that them being part of a large family and having so many siblings will be exhausting for them, but it’s all they’ve known they have their own personal space, they get their own time with each of their parents, and in all honesty they were just chatting last week at tea time how they like having so many siblings, as they always have someone to go to for advice from a friend, only thing they would change is to stop their 3 year old and 2 year old helping themselves to their makeup and for the boys their gaming head sets, so we have bought them a lock for their drawers to stop little hands helping themselves. Is it all happiness all the time not a chance majority either teenagers or irrational toddlers 😂 but from how my children behave, attitudes things they say and chat about they are doing fine being part of a large family. As for the younger two while the older ones are at school they still nap I’ve always had them nap at different times, which means they have time to play together and then they have 1-2-1 daily time while the other naps. That will continue when they start preschool they will be at the same setting same time for a period of time before starting school but they will go together for couple hrs one day and then go another day for few hours on different days where they still get 1-2-1 time. Then that will be adjusted as they each get older, school occurs etc.

And just to clarify two dads, I haven’t said much about my ex husband the father to the older five, because unfortunately he only sees them two nights a month (his choice) the kids have had their own issues with him and they’ve had to deal with an awful lot which they have had so much individual support for because you can imagine they were all affected very differently but they have come out the other end of it (for now anyway it’s something I am very cautious about). I haven’t said much about my husband the children’s step dad and father to our youngest two. Only because it’s me during the day to day juggling. And he wasn’t around when the oldest 5 were younger. But he is an amazing step dad and an amazing daddy. He always makes time for each and every child and thankfully he stepped up where my ex husband did not.

YABU for your naivety about ‘people choosing the number of children that will complete their families’.

Life isn’t always that straightforward for everyone.

They may end up with more, less or none at all - certainly not necessarily the number they dreamed up in their head when projecting ideals of the perfect family.

That is quite the wall of text. It's quite a simple question really, are you actually able to give your DC any individual attention on any sort of regular basis? You don't have to give me a straightforward answer if you don't want to, you don't owe me an explanation but I think you're doing your DC a disservice if you don't own how stretched you are.

I do find it hard to believe that you can really give 5+ children the amount of attention they need. We have one and she keeps us busy.

I think judgment comes in when people have many children and then can't look after them adequately. Like people living in a 2-3 bed houses and wanting to work out how to split up rooms when obviously 5 children sharing 2 rooms is not ideal. Or complaining that family won't step in to babysit all 5 kids at once.

you are right I don’t need to give you an explanation and I’m disappointed with myself that I have felt the need too from your replies. Probably because when I first stated I can give time to each of my children etc you have ‘nit picked’ and quoted me second guessing when I’ve explained what is done to ensure they do. Then nit picked because I didn’t mention what my ex husband does or my husband 😂 so simply

YES yes each of my children gets 1-2-1 time regularly. They are very happy and content children/young adults who want for nothing and whose parents pay their taxes and no other tax payer is contributing to our children’s upbringing because we have never claimed benefits. And yes we all cope very well. So as you can see OP unfortunately there are many people who are rather judgey when you don’t fall into the “2.4 children’ category 🤷🏻‍♀️

Hi, yes it was a position I never envisioned myself to ever be in but it happened. When my ex husband left, it was a huge shock no arguments or anything but the aftermath and his lies was a bit like Jeremy Kyle show 🙈😂 but after 15 years of marriage we are friends now so to speak. Sooooo back then he had the children a little more than he does now so I had a little free time that’s when I met my now husband. So we saw each other when the children were at their dads and let it develop slowly before kids were introduced, something I felt was important because their world had been turned upside down. He knew I had children when we first met but I’ll never forget when he asked me on our first date how many children I had I remember thinking to myself ‘ffs could you not have got to know me first because you are totally gunna do a runner’ 🙈😂 I was also very nervous how it would be taken because I’ll never forget when the ex said ‘good luck finding someone because with five children no one will want you’ but when I told him he didn’t run a mile he just smiled and was like oh wow that’s amazing, I’ve always wanted a big family. I remember thinking “this man’s insane” 😂😂.

He has one child from his previous marriage. So in total we have 8 children but 7 live with us. We have my step son every other weekend and half of all the holidays minimum we do have him more though which I’m thankful for he by far is my most well behaved child haha. He is an only child at his mums so he, out of all the kids prob has the best childhood as in he has the best of both worlds, he loves it at ours with all his siblings, there really is no divide between them all and actually they’ve blended amazingly. He is never bored, looks forward to come and disappointed to leave. But I also do see how he does love it at his mums being an only child he gets holidays abroad several times a year and has every toy imaginable at his mum and step dads so he is a very lucky boy in many many ways.

i know we are an unusual set up and will get a lot of judgment from others but it works for us and works for all our children 😃

I haven't nit picked, but you have backtracked. Your family, your choice. I hope your DC grow up with the same perceptions of their childhood as you do.
You must have a massive house with 8 of them.

We do actually thanks

@BeWittyRobin how did did you even manage to date with 5 dependent children?!

and did your new partner bring his own children to the table?

Nobody on that thread said they disliked large families - you’ve either not read the list or chosen to interpret wrongly what it was about - she said she wished her MIL would help. But if the MIL didn’t want to - why should she? She didn’t have 5 kids. My mum is one of 13 kids. No one helped my grandmother. My husband one of 4. Also no help. If you have the kids - surely you Knew hard it might have been?! That what what people meant in that post.

Good

Well yes some people can’t have any children or have fewer than they would have liked- they didn’t choose that and it’s sad for them.

But ending up with more children than you planned to have is usually a choice isn’t it? I certainly hope forced pregnancy and birth isn’t a thing in the UK these days.

Coming late to the party

UK fertility is about 1.4 live births per woman and the 'replacement rate' is 2.08

'benefit Dependant' families have an identical size structure to 'non benefit dependant' ones so the idea of Council Estates filled with Vicky Pollards is a right wing myth

'benefit Dependant' families have an identical size structure to 'non benefit dependant'

what do you mean? And source?

I think she means people on benefits have the same number of kids on average as people not on benefits