To think promiscuous men should be shamed more?

[TheJoyOfWriting]

This, really. The whole body count discourse is the latest version of slut-shaming, as it's mostly aimed at women. Promiscuous men are still given status by other men and by women, too often.

The body count arguments that people use against women can be used against men just as easily. Promiscuous men are more likely to cheat. They are more likely to have STDs. They are more likely to have contributed to an 'oops' baby- it takes 2 to make one, and more likely to walk away after w no consequences.

Promiscuous men often dump women after pretending to be interested to get sex, esp on datjng apps, which fuel this kind of behaviour. Women tend to find ONSs less satisfying, often partly bc these kind of men often don't care about giving pleasure, just taking it.

The idea that a man's worth is measured by how many women he has sex with is very bad. It encourages men to treat women badly, and it fuels the incel culture by making men feel insecure & unmanly if they're not sexually successful.

Thoughts? I don't mean we should call Promiscuous men horrible names or talk about them like 'run through' or 'high mileage cars' the way some men do about promiscuous women. But I think they should be shamed more, by both men and women.

I don't think casual sex is bad per se, but I think the culture of it has got out of control, and Promiscuous men share a lot of the blame.

@Moveoverdarlin @CommissarySushi @Greggsit @NoThanksNeeded all have it spot on.

I go for Rack. Risk aware consensual kink.

And we need to be able to openly talk about kink and sex

So we can teach young people these safe practices

Agree. And shaming gets nowhere. It’s not helpful.

Exactly, shaming drives things underground and private and makes it harder to be able to talk about if things go wrong

1. I've already answered.

1. I indeed love writing, I made that post late last night when I was tired. I normally shorten with, probs just missed the 'w' etc.

I actually chose my name from the title of a Wislawa Symborska poem I like.

I know this is very patronising, and I'm going to sound like my mother, but you're 19. I would also say I don't know anything about lesbian relationships.

Most people your age are still in the exploratory phase- they aren't looking for something long-term. I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's probably quite healthy to be having a couple ONS at that age- it gives you an idea of what you enjoy, without having to commit long-term.

Wait until you're in your late twenties/early thirties and everyone will be rushing to settle down ime.

What would all this 'shame' achieve in your view? The problem I see with it, is that the flip side of being upset over a man not wanting a ltr after a ONS, is being trapped in a relationship with someone you don't like and all the blackmail that goes with that 'if you leave me no-one else will want you'.

Given the choice I'd prefer a broken heart and move on, rather than being trapped with a man I don't love out of 'shame'.

No, it's not concerm that I'm referring too. I mentioned the overt misogyny of body count discourse in my OP.

I don’t think the body count is as important across the whole age range as you think it is from your perspective.

I am giving women agency, I know some lile casual sex. But no, I do not believe it is a large amount. Not just my personal experience, also what I have read on this topic.

This study is an example, but there are many

https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctv1rmk4x.18?seq=20

(You need a jstor account to read tho, but you can sign up for free)

You’ve been typing ‘w’ instead of ‘with’ and ‘bc’ instead of because’ this morning too.

Up to you of course. It’s just weird given the shit load of typing you’ve been doing in all your posts.

Anyway, I still don’t think you’ve made it clear why you think men and women should be shamed.

This. If they have willing partners, what’s the issue?

No I'm not saying that. I think probs there were issues w hookup culture before, but previous generations didn't have the internet as such a big thing, so the downsides were probs much less.

Why would slut shaming alpha men make them worse?

I'm not saying they should definitely be shamed, as I said, still thinking about it...

You don't "believe" that but there are plenty of experiences on MN which suggest otherwise to your belief

I used the internet for hookups before you were born.

just saying.

That study seems the suggest that it's the other way around. Women are attempting to trick men into relationships by signing up to a casual sex website, but with the intention of long term relationships.

"Probably". They also didn't have contraception and religious shame was much higher. The downsides have already been explain very well upthread....

Because then they have "women trying to control us and how we act" as extra ammunition

You clearly do think they should be shamed and in fact you ARE already engaging in shaming them

And still no answer about religious upbringing...

You clearly do think they should be shamed and in fact you ARE already engaging in shaming them

Yep it’s what this whole thread is about. It’s all ‘well I think this and I don’t reckon that’, from an OP whose barely been a grown up for a year according to her 🙄

But if he didn't tell you then you wouldn't know. It's not your business to know if he's worked his way through half your friendship group. It's not his business if you've had sex with half his friends either.

Nobody should be shamed about sexual history and its no one's business but theirs.

Personally I see sex as a part of a committed relationship rather than a casual pleasure to be enjoyed. Not my problem if you do however see sex as an enjoyable past time just don't be upset if he's been with people you know. Either suck it up or admit your a hypocrite.

Your stance is quite interesting given that it’s generally reported that Gen Z consistently partake in less risky behaviour across the board - including (but not limited to) alcohol consumption, promiscuous sex and drug taking.

In fact, this article (from Feb 2025) cites a poll carried out by YouGov - a well respected polling agency - which appears to show that GenZ are less than a third as likely to have casual sex as Millennials were. Millennials who, as pointed out above, genuinely were the first generation to have online dating, internet hookups, free and easy access to all kinds of porn, social media, etc.

I don’t think that anyone is saying that there aren’t men out there who are telling lies to get their end away, but this is not a new phenomenon - there always have been men prepared to lie to have sex
and Gen Z aren’t new victims of it. Slut shaming anyone isn’t a proportionate response, given that actually, sex isn’t and shouldn’t be inherently shameful and what goes on between consenting partners (including kink) is only their business.

No, no, this is very reasonable & helpful...I'll do a more detailed reply later, but for now I'll say that definitely nobody should be shamed to marry a ONS etc, whether they'd been lied to about intentions or not. I see what you mean about the dangers of slut-shaming..

On lesbian relationships, I will say that I think casual sex is a bit different here. On average, lesbians have a bit more casual sex than straight women, tho not that much.
Some studies say it's bc they have higher testosterone on average & therefore higher sex drive, others say not. The bottom line is the issues are different: no pregnancy risk, partners are much less likely to try to attack you/act out porn fantasies, and less likely to be able to overpower you if they did, STDs are less likely, people are generally more honest about their intentions. Obvs all those issues are still there (apart from pregnancy) but less likely. Orgasm also more likely bc women are more likely to know what works, or could work. Obvs a generalisation : and also true that women ) can enjoy sex if they don't orgasm, but I'd argue orgasms are more the goal of casual sex.

Studies also show lesbians are less likely to regret casual sex than straight women. Could be bc they enjoy it a bit more on average and are less likely to feel pressured, or could be bc of the other issues I mentioned above. Slut shaming not really an issue either.

So part of me thinks that lesbians might offer a clue as to why straight women enjoy ONSs less. Ir's not the ONS, but other issues like violence risk, lying etc But part of me thinks maybe it's also that lesbians are just a bit more inclined to casual sex due to higher sex drive and so less likely to regret (tho the difference isn' that big)

And how could these issues for straight women be improved? I think it would be nice if those who want to could enjoy casual sex, but the whole thing seems fraught w issues. I do think the male/female dynamic is probs less suited to casual sex, otoh men could choose to behave better...

MN isn't the same as real life. Women consistently report regret after casual sex much more than men do, and lower sociosexuality (desire to have uncommitted sex). Are they all lying?

Here's one study.

www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0191886918300539&ved=2ahUKEwju3tGu6cuPAxXC3AIHHWo8JVIQFnoECDUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0-Jft0Z0vkLhheDjshUBLf

To be clear, I'm not saying people on MN are lying! But it's possible people on MN are more likely to like casual sex- or maybe those who do are more vocal? It doesn't seem to chime w wider studies

This is a good point. There is clearly negative behaviour going on, and issues more specific to this generation like porn culture & Only fans teaching men they can get gratification anytime they want with no concern for women- not that that's an excuse.

I think this also suggests that a lot of this is manosphere culture which wants to brainwash young men that young women all have an Onlyfans & are very promiscuous. I'd read the stats myself about less hookups & relationships & I know that quite a few people my age are just a bit jaded by the oversexualised aspects of culture, even disliking sex scenes in films sometimes. But I hadn't put 2 & 2 together!

I think the issue is that Gen Z grew up with online dating taking off, and manosphere etc people are capitalising on that to spread ideas that are inaccurate anyway. So they end up stressing about things which don't apply as much to people out age anyway.

Wheras at least Millenials had more of a chance to form their ideas before online dating etc took off so much.