To think promiscuous men should be shamed more?

[TheJoyOfWriting]

This, really. The whole body count discourse is the latest version of slut-shaming, as it's mostly aimed at women. Promiscuous men are still given status by other men and by women, too often.

The body count arguments that people use against women can be used against men just as easily. Promiscuous men are more likely to cheat. They are more likely to have STDs. They are more likely to have contributed to an 'oops' baby- it takes 2 to make one, and more likely to walk away after w no consequences.

Promiscuous men often dump women after pretending to be interested to get sex, esp on datjng apps, which fuel this kind of behaviour. Women tend to find ONSs less satisfying, often partly bc these kind of men often don't care about giving pleasure, just taking it.

The idea that a man's worth is measured by how many women he has sex with is very bad. It encourages men to treat women badly, and it fuels the incel culture by making men feel insecure & unmanly if they're not sexually successful.

Thoughts? I don't mean we should call Promiscuous men horrible names or talk about them like 'run through' or 'high mileage cars' the way some men do about promiscuous women. But I think they should be shamed more, by both men and women.

I don't think casual sex is bad per se, but I think the culture of it has got out of control, and Promiscuous men share a lot of the blame.

Just address them as Fuck Boys and be done with it.

People are probs wondering why I'm on Mumsnet at my age

No not really. MN has had loads of teenage posters over the years (and a few weirdos pretending to be teenagers).

The only 2 things I’m wondering is

1. Why do you think men and women should be shamed for happily sleeping with as many partners as they choose, as long as it’s consensual?
2. Why have you called yourself ‘the Joy Of Writing’ when you clearly don’t enjoy writing very simple words like ‘with’ among other random missing words?

Casual sex has been around for at least 50 years in my personal experience. I’m not ashamed of it and have only ever been verbally abused by men who don’t get as much sex as they want and have just been told “no”. No societal shaming would result in more openness and acceptance, making if easier to identify those who are sexually inactive. There’s an argument that in fact it’s often the long-term celibate who keep quiet.

I have nothing constructive to add but as you think there aren’t many women about with a history of promiscuity, I wanted to raise my hand once again.

I had a friend like this (still do). She didn't see the appeal of one-night stands at all and I don't think she had sex at all until she was in her early 20s. I believe she has only ever had sex with two people; a previous long-term boyfriend and her now husband, who she's been with for nearly 30 years.

Looking back, she realises she ultimately dodged a huge bullet. The rest of us were driving ourselves crazy worrying about oversexed idiots and trying to shag our way into their good books, leading to a vast amount of wasted angst. I probably slept with 30 men before I got married, of whom only three actually genuinely cared about me.

My mate got on with her life, had a great time, got a First in her degree, has gone on to have a great marriage with four kids and is in a high-flying job with a great salary. She's a huge success by any measure. But at the time it was a source of massive distress to her that she wasn't "normal".

The problem is, as you rightly say, that so many women are made to feel that they are dysfunctional because they don't play along with this bullshit when a large proportion of us are constitutionally not made that way.

I still don't think promiscuity is a problem if people go into it with their eyes open and its what they genuinely want. Some people, including women, genuinely are fine with it, others aren't. The problem comes when people are misled into thinking it will be fun if its not, or that it will improve their self-esteem and health (when it definitely will not). And when men mis-sell what they want from it in order to get women into bed.

The Relationship topic is full of women who post about one night stands and having sex with various online dates.

As long as they’re all safe and happy there should be no shame.

I dont think applause is offered, unless you do it on stage in a sex club.

I do think that casual sex probs had much fewer negative effects for previous generations bc they lacked the Internet.
So you're either extremely uneducated, pig ignorant or rage baiting.

I don't think anyone should be applauded for waiting until they're married before having sex.

All this sex applause is a new one on me. I’m starting to get into the idea though.

No one should be shamed for being promiscuous as long as they are honest.

Alright. But online dating wasn't a huge thing until relatively recently. Probs wrong to say that Gen Z are the first generation to be affected by it en masse-that would be Millenials. Though obvs a lot of older people also are now using.

It does make sense : the idea is that a lot of women are having casual sex they don't really want in order to get a relationship / are being lied to by Don Juan types who promise a relationship to get them into bed.

Obvs I know some women do enjoy ONS,and are not being lied to, which is good, but I don't think that many.

There’s no advantages in shame.

There’s lots of advantages to wanting to enjoy sex and be sexually free.

V interesting post, will reply in more detail later..for now, I'll say that online dating def fuels manosphere & vice versa.

I don't know any of these types irl luckily, (at least afaik) but from what I hear, a lot of boys & young men (incl Gen Alpha, which needs to be nipped in the bud) are getting crazy ideas like 'women only want the top 1% of men' from stats on dating apps, which are obviously inaccurate since far more men than women use them in the first place. Or 'women are only attracted to 20% of men' - suspect this one comes bc women are less likely to get a connection based on a visual image the way men are (another reason OLD works better for men)

Obvs male promiscuity is linked to this, but maybe more of an OLD problem. Still thinking...

Why don't you think it's that many? What are you basing that off?

I know lots of women, who have dated very casually and not been looking for a relationship.

Ilwym, this was meant re being digital natives. I still argue that online dating was a big thing for Millenials and Gen Z in a way it wasn't for Gen X.

I know hooking up is not new- would argue though that the landscape is different now bc of the things mentioned above. There are still issues w hookup culture, but imo they are magnified a lot by the things now which I've mentioned: OLD, porn culture, Only fans etc

No one should be shamed for any legal decisions they consented to that have absolutely zero bearing on the life’s of anyone else.

end of.

No. No-one's business as long as it's consensual is the root of the destructive kink culture we have now, Only fans, large amounts of unpleasant porn that the actors supposedly consent to.

I don't wholly disagree w your post, but consent only is not a good standard.

Ha, I'm happy to be a 'little puritan'. 🤣

In fact, I will puritanically quote JB Priestley : 'We are members of one body. We are responsible for one another.'
What people do does affect the wider culture. This wouldn't be an issue if male promiscuity were not having negative consequences.

If we “slut-shame” men more, the result will also be that more women will be “slut-shamed” more! Do you want that?

Can you explain why you think casual sex has more consequences now than in the hundreds of years previous?

Ikwym. Tbf tho in my post I was talking more about other issues. I know slut shaming is not new, I do think online misogynistic stuff is giving it more airtime though & using OLD to make spurious points.

If you believe male promiscuity has bad consequences, then it follows that you believe that female promiscuity has bad consequences… So if you want to shame promiscuity, why just focus on the men?

I would definitely have been classed as promiscuous before I got married. Now DH and I are promiscuous together

I'm still sorting out my thoughts on this. For one thing, male promiscuity is more common, and arguably has more negative consequences. Men don't risk being assaulted by a female date, or not that much, they can't get pregnant by accident, they are less likely to get STDs, & they are much less likely to be lied to by a woman who only wants a ONS when they want commitment.

For another, there is still much more negativity about female than male promiscuity. So I'm focusing on men here.