To think promiscuous men should be shamed more?

[TheJoyOfWriting]

This, really. The whole body count discourse is the latest version of slut-shaming, as it's mostly aimed at women. Promiscuous men are still given status by other men and by women, too often.

The body count arguments that people use against women can be used against men just as easily. Promiscuous men are more likely to cheat. They are more likely to have STDs. They are more likely to have contributed to an 'oops' baby- it takes 2 to make one, and more likely to walk away after w no consequences.

Promiscuous men often dump women after pretending to be interested to get sex, esp on datjng apps, which fuel this kind of behaviour. Women tend to find ONSs less satisfying, often partly bc these kind of men often don't care about giving pleasure, just taking it.

The idea that a man's worth is measured by how many women he has sex with is very bad. It encourages men to treat women badly, and it fuels the incel culture by making men feel insecure & unmanly if they're not sexually successful.

Thoughts? I don't mean we should call Promiscuous men horrible names or talk about them like 'run through' or 'high mileage cars' the way some men do about promiscuous women. But I think they should be shamed more, by both men and women.

I don't think casual sex is bad per se, but I think the culture of it has got out of control, and Promiscuous men share a lot of the blame.

I don't think anybody should be shamed for promiscuous behaviour men or women. Quite frankly I don't care what 2 (or more) consenting adults get up to or what they choose to do with their bodies. Only people's sex lives I'm bothered about (and the only one that's any of my business) is mine and my husbands.

I don't think men or women should be shamed for having casual sex, as really, what consenting adults choose to do doesn't matter.
I think there should be a higher stigma attached to men who have casual sex and create pregnancies when they have no intention of taking the responsibility of a father. I also think that obtaining consent by deception should be stigmatised and in serious cases criminalised, as it is.
As far as the other things go, no one is forcing you to use that crass term 'body count' and go along with those ideas. If a man who has had multiple partners is off putting to you, then discount these men from your dating pool.

But you’ve started your post with an incredibly judgmental and pejorative remark!

People are allowed to have different attitudes to sexual politics. Calling someone a puritan is OK, but using other insults isn’t?

And I don’t care either what consenting adults do as long as both parties are aware it’s just sex. I think men in particular often try to give the impression they’re up for more to manipulate women, and that’s not fair.

Nobody's said that women should be as promiscuous as some men, @CoffeeCantata! Only that both women and men should be free to do what suits them, safety and consent permitting.

Female promiscuity plays into the hands of unscrupulous men IF you believe it's women's job to stop unscrupulous men having a varied sex life. I don't, why would I? I've had some very nice encounters with unscrupulous men. No woman who doesn't want to shag an unscrupulous man is under any obligation to do so.

You seem to be operating under the fallacy that 'modern feminists' (I'm an original 2nd-waver, by the way) want to force young women to screw around. What a bloody stupid assumption.

You also seem to think women must, for some reason, withhold sex in order to coerce men into relationships. That isn't how it works.

Feminism's about liberating women from patriarchal oppression. Trying to manipulate the oppressor class by making yourself less free to express yourself doesn't really look like a brilliant strategy. I mean, we've been doing that for 3,000 years and it hasn't worked yet, has it?

Both women and men want sex, both want relationships. Many long-term relationships begin with sex on the first date.

Indeed. Most effective.

It’d be possible, I think, to make the case that society uses shame as a control mechanism when there’s not really a consistent moral or practical argument against whatever it is they want to prohibit.

But as the OP brought up the possibility of debating its morality, that’s the aspect I’d like her view on.

A lot of young women feel under immense pressure to screw around when they don’t want to.

I was a real mess in my 20’s because l couldn’t do it.

That sounds horrible. Who was applying this pressure?

Society

Erm - okay. How did society know about your sexual activity?

It wasn’t like that,

When l was a student everyone was having one night stands. It was just normal. And expected.

And l couldn’t do it. So l felt a failure and a freak.

Its easy for those who feel comfortable and happy to argue that it’s fine to do it.

But it makes those of us who can’t feel like crap. As one night stands seem to be the norm.

Im 60 now, but still think the same. It’s not for everyone, but those who don’t want to feel shame for not being able to.

Im married, but if l couldn’t go back to my younger self l’d tell her not to care.

Yep, your advice to your younger self would be spot-on!

But l was too young at the time and felt immense pressure. Spent a lot of time on and off anti depressants and in counselling because of it.

I'm very sorry you experienced this. I've got to say it's not usual. I hope the counselling helped, because there must've been some reason you felt so very bad about being different from your friends in this way.

I would say I've felt shame about not being able to play ball games! I'm not taking the piss - my hand/eye co-ordination simply doesn't work like that, and people have often been incredulous that anyone could be so bad. It's been really embarrassing at times. It is what it is. I don't take this to mean people shouldn't play ball games or invite their friends to join in.

I do think they shouldn't pressure someone to join if the person says they can't do it. Same in your case - your friends must've been very insensitive if they gave you grief for not liking casual sex.

I didn't want to either and I didn't. I have never felt like a failure or a freak and I've never felt shame for not being up for casual sex. That seems like a self esteem issue honestly.

They didn’t give me grief. They were really good friends.

It was the unspoken expectation in the circles at the time l struggled with. I don’t think l was that unusual. I knew others like me. We used to call ourselves ‘the unspoken minority’

I just opted out. It was the only way. Horrible time of my life.

Who cares? The only world in which one appears to care about body count is yours by all accounts based on the way your articulate your first post.

There is a plethora of different people, some who want to chalk up as many notches as possible and those that don't, and many a number in-between.

Truth be told, no one gives a fuck, and respectfully it's none of your business either way.

Nobody should be shamed for being promiscuous.

Men who go on about “bodycount” are misogynists and should be ignored.

Maybe young people who dont drink alcohol or party feel the same. But they cant stop other people enjoying alcohol or partying just because they feel unusual or left out. Being young is hard as you do worry too much what others think, but it happens to most people in some way really.

I don’t think l ever said anything about stopping people doing anything.

Each to their own.

I think gender differences do exist when it comes to viewing sexual behaviour and I don't think this is right.

My view on having a high body count is live and let live unless I'm choosing a partner. I'm okay with casual sex in moderation but when choosing a partner, I've always found it off putting if a man had a high "body count".

But I suppose everyone has a different idea of what a high body count is and the most important thing is that you share similar values around sex with the person you end up in a relationship with.

I do think that casual sex probs had much fewer negative effects for previous generations bc they lacked the Internet.

😂

Bless you.

@TheJoyOfWriting

The thing is, promiscuity isn't uniformly considered bad in and of itself (unless one has somewhat puritanical views on sex.) Someone can be promiscuous in an unethical way, but promiscuity per se isn't a bad thing (or isn't seen as such by many people.)

If someone's cheating, then that's unethical, but people who are single and having lots of casual sex are doing nothing wrong, IMO, and don't deserve to be shamed for that, whether they are men or women. Same for those who are in long-term non-monogamous relationships.

The fact that many women are unjustly shamed for ethical promiscuity is not a justification for shaming men for ethical promiscuity. NO ONE should be shamed for it.

I just mean there isnt much you can do about unspoken expectations in certain circles.

I’m all for people shagging whoever they want as long as it’s consensual, tbh.

As someone who hit their late teens / early 20s before online dating existed, I’m laughing out loud at the OP’s implication that ‘hook-up culture’ is a new thing. Casual sex was not invented with the advent of Tinder. If anything, Gen Z is more cautious than my generation was.