To think promiscuous men should be shamed more?

[TheJoyOfWriting]

This, really. The whole body count discourse is the latest version of slut-shaming, as it's mostly aimed at women. Promiscuous men are still given status by other men and by women, too often.

The body count arguments that people use against women can be used against men just as easily. Promiscuous men are more likely to cheat. They are more likely to have STDs. They are more likely to have contributed to an 'oops' baby- it takes 2 to make one, and more likely to walk away after w no consequences.

Promiscuous men often dump women after pretending to be interested to get sex, esp on datjng apps, which fuel this kind of behaviour. Women tend to find ONSs less satisfying, often partly bc these kind of men often don't care about giving pleasure, just taking it.

The idea that a man's worth is measured by how many women he has sex with is very bad. It encourages men to treat women badly, and it fuels the incel culture by making men feel insecure & unmanly if they're not sexually successful.

Thoughts? I don't mean we should call Promiscuous men horrible names or talk about them like 'run through' or 'high mileage cars' the way some men do about promiscuous women. But I think they should be shamed more, by both men and women.

I don't think casual sex is bad per se, but I think the culture of it has got out of control, and Promiscuous men share a lot of the blame.

Of course some men shame women. They always have. And they shouldn’t. But you’ve been shaming people yourself throughout this thread, men and women. You are no better than they are.

I'm not worried about women genuinely enjoying those things. I'm just not convinced it's the majority.

As I said, I've never actually experienced this. I observed girls being shamed in high school for being perceived as promiscuous, but not as an adult. I've also seen women online complaining about men who don't care whether they (the women) enjoy sex, and I can't say I've ever experienced that, either.

Do you realise quite how you sound? Have you any idea how you’re coming across?

Women who don’t enjoy those things typically don’t do them habitually. Women who do enjoy them do.

You seem to have an odd notion that just because you don’t like something, other women who do like it must be somehow deluded / self-destructive / just trying to get a boyfriend. What makes you think women don’t know their own minds? Your viewpoint is fundamentally a misogynist one that posits women who engage in casual sex, or the kinks you’ve arbitrarily deemed universally harmful, are somehow naive victims who will do anything to
please a man or secure a relationship. You really don’t like or respect other women at all unless they’re women exactly like you.

Promiscuous women, or women who like kinky sex, don’t need you to save them from themselves, you know. It’s incredibly silly to insist that women can’t make their own choices about their own welfare without you to arbitrate on whether their sexual practices are safe and healthy or not. You are not wiser than other women. You’re not even wiser than other teenage girls.

This was in reply to "I don't think anyone should be applauded for waiting until they're married before having sex." The arrogance!

Just to be extra clear, Juniper, I consider it essential to establish sexual compatibility before any commitment to a sexual relationship. If you marry, you're planning to be fucking each other for the rest of your lives. Estimating twice a week for 50 years, that's 2,600 physically and emotionally intimate sessions with the person you look at every breakfast time. You'd better be sure it's more of a pleasure than an ordeal.

Even my parents, who turned 95 this year, deemed it idiotic to get married before having sex.

Why is it so outrageous to say that I doubt most women (or at any rate, quite a lot of them) are especially keen on casual sex?

I expect if you polled a random selection of people, most would agree.

It's true that a lot of traditional beliefs about women are sexist & incorrect. But I think the belief that women are significantly less into casual sex than men on average is probably accurate, at least to some degree.

There is quite a lot of evidence that women having casual sex often do so because they hope it will lead to a relationship (a pp described this situation earlier on the thread, will check which) or bc they have been lied to about the man's intentions.

This is not to say that no women like casual sex. Just that on average, women are less likely to.

Multiple posters have said that I'm ignoring their points when they have said they enjoy casual sex, and I have said that I know some women do but it's not the majority.

That's not ignoring individual experiences, it's focusing on averages. I'm not concerned about the effects of male promiscuity on individual women who like casual sex, but its broader effect societally on the many (I would argue majority) of women who don't.

I'm willing to believe that maybe the majority of women DO like casual sex. But I don't think so at the moment.

Let’s see all the things I’m doing wrong according to the op.

divorced. Because that’s not ideal for having children. Shame no one told my ex before he cheated on me but let’s not forget to heap a lot of guilt on me because I’m female.

having a lot of sex after said divorce. If all sorts and all flavours. FWB. Fuck buddies. ONSs. And even some I don’t remember the name of. My bad. Oops.

Kinky sex too. And plenty of it. And I guarantee you won’t have a clue what some of the kinks I’ve come across are. Because they’re all sorts of everything. Some are formulaic, but that sort tends to be boring, to be fair.

No promises of exclusivity or monogamy given out by me.

And it’s no one’s business but mine and the people I’m shagging.

No one. Not anyone. Gets to sit in judgement on me. Im having fun. I’m living my life. I tell no lies and I am unfailingly honest in my relationships. And if the bloke of the moment doesn’t like what I’m offering he’s free to leave at any time.

You and no one else will ever shame me.

You’d be better worrying about the poor sods trapped in loveless and abusive marriages than worry about me who’s having a great time.

Yes, it is usual.

It's wildly unreasonable to expect friends and acquaintances to give up an important part of their personal lives because you feel awkward about being different. The person who needs to come to terms with their own values is you.

They don't owe you celibacy. Same as it's usual for groups of friends to play ball games, which I'm unable to. I'd be a right prat if I whined about how they were making me feel awkward with their impromptu baseball games, wouldn't I? I'm the one with the co-ordination deficit, I'm the one who stays out of ball games. Nobody else has to stop playing.

I've repeatedly said that I know some women genuinely enjoy casual sex, all power to them . I just don't believe it is the majority.

There's a lot of evidence, actually, that many women feel pressured to have casual sex they don't want, when they'd prefer a relationship.

This account & survey is from a US college, but it's far from the only evidence.

qz.com/685852/hookup-culture

Girls being pressured into having anal sex with "boyfriends" who won't even hold their hand

Ask a teenager while they still know everything, eh?

I really don't. There are good reasons to wait. It is not something I did but I admire those who do. Sex on first or second dates rarely lead to marriage

Yep, I agree with that. I understand why my OP annoyed people bc a lot of the time restraints on women's sexuality have helped keep them in bad relationships.

I do think part of slut-shaming is bc then men who were poor at sex wouldn't need to work to improve as their partner wouldn't have anything to compare to.

Otoh, studies show people who have had more partners are more likely to get divorced. The study authors interpreted that as making people too picky - but that's often not the full story ofc...

Oh I think people who have casual sex have always been harshly judged. Told no one would marry them etc. if women got pregnant "should have kept your legs closed" etc

we see the world through our own eyes and our own insecurities. You felt judged because you felt you were going against the "norm". Others felt judged because they were enjoying casual sex and they felt that was going against society's views.

sadly judgment is all around us, as the op is showing.

there isn't, or at least shouldn't be a normal for whether people choose to have sex whether in a relationship or not. It's what's right for us as an individual. And sometimes that changes as we go through life.

So what? For many, marriage is not the goal anyway.

If they're pressured, then that's not consent.

I’m quite happy having all sorts of sex. I’m currently partnered up and we have negotiated monogamy but that’s recent for me. I’ve been spectacularly non monogamous for many many years and I’ve had an awful lot of sex during those years.

my view is it’s very easy, as a woman, to get no strings sex. (My phone wanted to make that hob strings sex. Make of that what you will 🤣🤣🤣)

This. But I wouldn’t want a relationship with a promiscuous man. So does that sound like I’m judging?

What's grey sex?

YABU.

Sexist to shame men and not women. How do you enforce it? When you're young, I reckon, so long as there's no manipulation people should have enough sex with however many partners they want so that they don't wonder what they're missing later..

Late at night with the lights off missionary?

How are you defining "pressure". Subtle peer pressure is still pressure, it doesn't negate the validity of consent

It's weird you know about your parents test driving each other like a car 😂

Usual as in not common. That's neither good nor bad. It really sounds like you associated with the wrong crowds if it affected your life so much. I didn't have sex until my first boyfriend whereas most people were already having sex at parties etc by that point. I felt a bit left out but some of my friends were the same.