To think promiscuous men should be shamed more?

[TheJoyOfWriting]

This, really. The whole body count discourse is the latest version of slut-shaming, as it's mostly aimed at women. Promiscuous men are still given status by other men and by women, too often.

The body count arguments that people use against women can be used against men just as easily. Promiscuous men are more likely to cheat. They are more likely to have STDs. They are more likely to have contributed to an 'oops' baby- it takes 2 to make one, and more likely to walk away after w no consequences.

Promiscuous men often dump women after pretending to be interested to get sex, esp on datjng apps, which fuel this kind of behaviour. Women tend to find ONSs less satisfying, often partly bc these kind of men often don't care about giving pleasure, just taking it.

The idea that a man's worth is measured by how many women he has sex with is very bad. It encourages men to treat women badly, and it fuels the incel culture by making men feel insecure & unmanly if they're not sexually successful.

Thoughts? I don't mean we should call Promiscuous men horrible names or talk about them like 'run through' or 'high mileage cars' the way some men do about promiscuous women. But I think they should be shamed more, by both men and women.

I don't think casual sex is bad per se, but I think the culture of it has got out of control, and Promiscuous men share a lot of the blame.

I’m interested in the classification of kinks into “mild” and “other” @TheJoyOfWriting Can you explain how you’ve done this?

I didn't say only a young and naive person could think that. I said your age effects how right you feel

I didn't say you should be ashamed of your religion or it discounted your opinion. But a religious upbringing helps explain certain viewpoints

I'm a 32 year old bisexual Chrisitan. I can recognise how certain religious aspects can affect that outlook

Even in a liberal church, my sexuality caused me angst at one point

I think you’re demonstrating an increasing problem among teenagers and young people: being Terminally Online. Get offline. Stop reading stuff online and start experiencing the world and learning how to navigate it, experiencing it with the people around you, developing your social skills, having experiences, deciding whether you liked them or not, using those experiences to inform the relationships you have, and the friends you keep. Being Terminally Online is a huge aspect of the issue you’re raising: a generation of young people - perhaps young men in particular - whose knowledge of and attitudes towards sex and relationships is almost completely informed by what they see and read online, usually in an echo chamber, rather than what they feel and experience in real life, who then struggle to develop the emotional literacy, interpersonal skills, and necessary ways of relating to actual humans; all of which are vital for good sex and good relationships.

Showing random studies to women decades your senior who have been having sex and forming relationships since before you were born, as if sexuality and relationships are an academic exercise or a hypothesis for your university debating club that you can change their minds on by winning more points, is not a goer. You’ve spent the entire thread reading the opinions of older women with plenty of their own knowledge and experience to impart on you; yet your consistent response hasn’t been a desire to learn from them, or an interest in discovering and thinking about experiences and points of view which aren’t your own, but to doggedly insist that you know better and that their experiences are nullified by a study you found online.

I mean, fear not: this is totally normal, most 19-year-olds think they’ve discovered the font of knowledge and wisdom and just can’t understand why older people haven’t figured out how wrong they are. Find a way to save this thread, somewhere. I guarantee you, in twenty years’ time you’ll look back at it and cringe and laugh a bit. Hopefully in twenty years’ time you’ll have had a brilliant life and all sorts of meaningful relationships, including sexual ones, with other people. But you ain’t gonna find that by living inside your own head or by reading online.

Feather vs whole chicken!

This is a very well thought out post 👏👏

And yes, 'terminally online' would definitely describe the OP who was still posting links at 4am.

Mild = acceptable
Other = anything OP doesn't agree with

I agree religion effects how you view things. But plenty of non religious people have simular views, for other reasons.

I don't have any angst over my sexuality and I never have. These issues are ones that I don't personally deal with (not dating men and not having casual sex) . This thread isn't about my personal experience of sex, it's about my concern about wider societal trends, which I shall elaborate on this evening.

How about no shaming. Don't ask and dont tell.

Thank you, I definitely agree about some people my age group getting the wrong ideas online & not from real life. I do plenty of stuff offline, though, I'm not terminally online. I am aware that information there can present a skewed picture.

It's not usual for me to be up at 4am 🤣 I had to finish something & thought I might as well see how the thread was going.

As I've clarified to pp, this thread isn't about my personal experience of sex, which has been positive. All my friends are either in relationships or focusing on other stuff, some people in my wider university circle are involved in hookup culture & have had some bad experiences of the kind I outlined above, but this isn't the norm for my immediate circle.

I know 'focus on life as you know it' is good advice, but I still think one should be aware of the wider world. We don't have any migrant protests, flag paintings etc in my area either, but I still think it's important to be aware of matters beyond my immediate sphere of experience.

I mostly don't get my ideas from online forums, it was more articles and books. I wonder if there may be an element of moral panic going on. There's a lot of different pundit types in various fields talking as if we're heading for men & women to have less & less relationships w each other, falling birth rate, rising misogyny, Incel culture etc. I definitely think the concerns about porn & sexual violence & the impact of stuff like Onlyfans & dating apps that want to keep people on there are valid societal issues to be concerned about. But I wonder if there is also exaggeration involved to gain attention for researchers' work etc

"I shall ignore all anecdotes of people's actual experiences in favour of statistics"

Stats lie. You should be aware of that. The people commissioning studies will manipulate the research to show what they want. It's important to apply a critical eye as to who is publishing data and what their agenda might be

Plenty of morally wrong or grey sex takes place with consent.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I bet you secretly agree with me, deep down, if you think about it.

Can you give me some examples of morally wrong sex?

So because l didn’t confirm to the expected standard l wasn’t ‘usual?’ Why is the ‘usual’ to sleep with anyone?

This is exactly what l meant. I was perceived as unusual, because of societal expectations. Which broke me.

Thise who go on about the freedom to sleep with whoever they want whenever they want feel anyone who doesn’t feel like that is judging them. But there is a silent minority who don’t want to do this. They never really get considered.

l just learnt to keep quiet.

No one cares about body count in the real world? Or only teenagers?

Is this really true?

Many in this thread say so!

Maybe I'm very misguided, but I don't think it is. I certainly don't think that slut shaming is a solely online phenomenon.

Absolutely all of this!

anyone debating whether people should be shamed for having causal sex needs to have a long hard look at themselves as to why they want yo
shame anyone.

don't like casual sex? No problem, don't do it. But that doesn't give anyone the right to judge others for making different choices.

women have been shamed for even enjoying sex for a very long time. Used to be seen as a duty, and not something to be enjoyed. Women who did enjoy it were judged to be of low morals, even if that enjoyment came from their husband. Im
very glad that we have moved away from that.

Funnily enough, I was just thinking that you almost certainly secretly agree with me. Deep down, that is, if you think about it.

As this thread shows though, the opposite is also true. Many got (and clearly still do) get judged for choosing to have sex with casual partners.

maybe the lesson to be learned is that judgment of either is wrong and unhelpful and who has sex and who doesn't isn't anyone else's business.

I don’t think the people like that get as much judging though. That’s the ‘norm’ isn’t it?

People like me are judged for being ‘weird’

I don’t judge or care who sleeps with who. But the more vocal majority make their voices the norm.

maybe the lesson to be learned is that judgment of either is wrong and unhelpful and who has sex and who doesn't isn't anyone else's business.

Exactly and since the OP has barely entered adulthood, her opinions could well change once she's lived a bit.

I have never been asked IRL about my body count. If a man ever did ask me, he'd be informed he better be talking about people I've killed, because that's the only "body count" that matters.

I don’t know any adults over the age of about 21 who talk about ‘body counts’, no. Outside that demographic It’s basically only a common topic of conversation among incels and tradwives.

For someone so concerned about slut-shaming, you seem to do quite a lot of it. As I said in my first comment on this thread, neither men nor women should be shamed for being promiscuous. Rather than suggesting we shame men, maybe suggest that nobody shames anyone. Then people can happily shag in peace without anyone passing judgement and you could stop worrying about it.

Most men probs don't mention it to women they want to date. But does that mean it's not a consideration, or that the shaming of promiscuous women is only online?

I also don't really understand the argument that what happens online has no relation to the real world. A lot of people are online, obvs, and I don't think the misogyny & other bad attitudes that one hears are fostered on there are only confined to a few terminally online weirdos.

They may not talk about it openly, ofc. And probs not use terms like 'body count'. But does this really mean that previous generations of men didn't shame promiscuous women? Or that only weird online subcultures do?

You can be ‘concerned’ all you like. That still doesn’t make other people’s sex lives your business.

Your ‘concern’ about other people having casual and/or kinky sex is of no value to people who greatly enjoy doing those things. Just because you can’t comprehend why some people might like those things, that doesn’t mean they’re not having a fabulous time.

What makes you think that you know - better than they do - what’s good for them? Can you not see how incredibly egotistical and presumptuous you are to appoint yourself into that role? It’s beyond absurd.