Adult man swearing at a toddler

[AnnaSunshine]

We have a family membership to Kew Gardens. I know it’s expensive, but we go almost every weekend to let our children run around and enjoy being outside.

My youngest child is 18 months old. He is in that gorgeous stage where he had just started to talk a little more coherently and where he absolutely loves running around and climbing. He can follow simple instructions….. when he wants to!

If you know Kew, we were over by the Japanese gardens. My eldest thinks this is the most beautiful place that she’s ever seen.

This area has some gravel sections where the stones are raked. They are not to be walked on.

As you can imagine, my son (who was with my husband) immediately ran into the middle of one of these areas. My husband called to my son (which he thought was a hilarious game) and then my husband went to go and scoop him up. Cue toddler screaming “No daddy!”.

At this point a man in his thirties sitting on a bench with a woman turns around and tells us “you cannot walk on that.” I relied, “we know, but he’s a toddler and he doesn’t understand that yet.”

To be clear, my husband has already removed my son.

The man then continues “What is wrong with you Karen? Parent your children. You need to have boundaries. What is wrong with you? You are a terrible parent!”

This is with escalating agitation. My son, still with his Dad, starts to cry because there is a man shouting at his mum.

I should have walked away, but I said still very calmly:

”Karen‽ He is not even two. He is not yet cognitively developed enough to understand this.”

To which the man stood up, turned to my son and shouted “You little sod, don’t go on the f-ing stones!”

I said “You are shouting at a toddler. For when you have calmed down, we forgive you for this.” And, I know pettily, walked across the stones myself to go and hug my child.

Was I unreasonable in this? Kew is made for people of all ages. We absolutely respect it, and would have taken my son off the gravel regardless of people being around, but I cannot comprehend this man‘s actions.

I’ve got thick skin, so tell me how it is if I’m wrong.

I know, right!?

I can’t tell whether some of the responses on here are serious or not. ‘Unruly child’ and posters saying you should have said ‘oh, sorry for my child running’

Absolutely bonkers!

I think there’s much bigger things going on in the world and some of you need to calm down. Sit down and have a cup of tea.

I know Kew extremely well, in fact I took my DS there as a toddler. We didn't let him run over the gravel any more than we let him run in the road. The fact that your husband didn't just let your kid stick a foot on it, but all three of you traipsed through damaging the pattern is disgusting. The comparison with running into a road shows it was a lack of parenting; you know you both have an ability not to let him go where he isn't supposed to and you actively chose not to care what he damaged. Then deliberately tried to damage it yourself in anger. You weren't the only person there and neither was the shouty man, why on earth should you think you had a right to mess it up!?!

Of course the man shouldn't shout at you nor your toddler, there is nothing to be gained from yelling at randoms even when they behave badly. It may be that he has additional needs or is overwhelmed for some other reason. We don't know him to know that. We do know that you were both failing to parent your child and that you personally deliberately tried to damage the design though. You need to reflect more on how you behave in public, this isn't appropriate.

Perfect summary.

Walked off and trampled all over the stones like a petulant toddler, yes.

I mean the man sounds ghastly but the OPs twee way of posting is pretty insufferable as well

Why did you post in AIBU when you’re so sure YANBU?

I don't think you did anything wrong. Your toddler didn't listen and his dad scooped him up. The situation was dealt with. The man was an arse for swearing at a child. Don't give him headspace.

OP has told on herself with her statement ‘reins are not for us’

i get the feeling this isn’t the first time her kids behaviour has been subject to judgement and eye rolls. Probably just the first time someone’s said anything.

Both are wrong

your toddler shouldn’t be running on areas he’s not allowed

people shouldnt be shouting and swearing at you

arguably the man’s behaviour was worse than yours and your husbands but you shouldn’t have justified your stance as being two is not a reasonable excuse. A simple “I know we are getting him” would have sufficed.
Your child is far too young to understand where he can and can’t walk so while you are teaching him you can -
hold his hand
use reins
pick him up
uae a pushchair

@AnnaSunshine for however awful the man was shouting he had a point one that you should take to the Japanese garden and self reflect on

your toddler didn’t know better, arguably having not done this before you do

so you adjust accordingly and coming up with a plan to make sure something like that doesnt happen again. That’s parenting tweaking and changing approaches as the kids get older

but at a guess the performative parenting didn’t help either

he was in the wrong but you escalated the situation.

Two parents should be able to stop a child going where they shouldn’t be. Letting them go where they want isn’t adorable. You then made things worse but starting to have a go at the man.

maybe look closer to home before blaming others

I am not sure your husband could have anticipated you were going to wall on it too. I think it all got out of hand but neither you nor the guy set your children the best example. I guess he probably does not care about that but I am sure you do.

I actually can’t believe your final moment was the purposefully ruin more of the display. You might have had the moral high ground until then but that’s an extremely ridiculous reaction and taught your children that they did nothing wrong.

Everyone was embarrassing here so best to just move on and do better next time.

I mean - you both sound awful if I’m honest. Yeah he was a bit of a twat - but so were you in the end. It sounds patronising the way you were speaking to him, and then the pettiness at the end really brought it home - but no - swearing at a toddler is ridiculous and a bit mad. You have both not covered yourself in glory here - and from your responses on this thread - you seem quite argumentative which maybe came across in your interacting with this guy. Just forget about it and hopefully it doesn’t happen again.

Why is there always a poster who asks this silly question? It’s completely pointless, and invariably meant to be provocative.

I think the reason a lot of OPs dig their heels in is because it’s a defence mechanism against a pile-on.

FWIW, I agree with PPs that the OP was unreasonable, but it doesn’t merit the vitriol she’s getting from some PPs. But the way the man swore at her and her toddler was completely unacceptable. Particularly calling her a ‘Karen’.

The man was a dick.

BUT

I did an internship at Kew Gardens years ago. I worked on the rock garden. Despite lots of signs asking people not to let children climb on the rocks, it happened constantly. When we saw it happening we always broke off from what we were doing to ask them politely to get down, or to remove their children, and we would explain why.

So very often the parents reacted defensively, with the same excuses/minimising as the op and pps - he’s just a toddler, he doesn’t understand, he’s not doing any harm, it’s no big deal, it’s just rocks, this place is supposed to be family friendly. Etc.

The problem is, he isn’t the only toddler climbing on the rocks.. He is one of numerous toddlers doing it every day, every week, every month.

A plant in the crevices of those rocks might survive one foot accidentally standing on it. It might have its blooms knocked off but go on to produce more. But it might not. When it repeatedly happens, it’s less and less likely.

The rocks are designed and constructed to provide a specific habitat, which is different from how public steps are constructed. Over time, with enough kids scrambling over them, they loosen. Smaller rocks are kicked out of place. Gravel is scattered.

Kew is not a public park, a National Park, a public space, or ‘just a garden,’ all terms used by pps to describe it on this thread. It is a botanical garden. As such, the planting is very different from those places. It is not wild, hardy, native flora. It is not the sort of robust planting that is used in a supermarket car park, or play area, that can withstand being bashed and trodden on. It is a scientific collection that includes rare and delicate specimens from all over the world, many of which are nurtured to survive in a climate that is not their own.

Since the government withdrew its funding of Kew, it has been forced to market itself more as a family attraction, rather than as a scientific collection, in order to get people through the gates so that it can survive. It is a fantastic place to take and educate kids, and there are vast spaces where little ones can run around, as well as dedicated play areas for them. But it is important to realise that it is easy to do harm, and it does matter if children are allowed to run and climb on places they shouldn’t.

Is this a true story or....................

You say in your message that you have a thick skin amd to be constructive but none of your replies indicate any open mindedness that you may also have been in the wrong here. Kew is amazing for children and they have so much there specifically for children. The Japanese garden is not one of those spaces. It's beautiful and calm and not made for toddlers running around. The man was also completely in the wrong to respond how he did but perhaps next time take your daughter on her own and let your son run and play in one of the more sensory areas.

why did you say in your OP that you’re thick skinned when you’re responding defensively to everything? it seems you are (understandably) sensitive about this, but in that case for your own sake don’t invite harsh comments by saying you’re thick skinned.
fwiw the man is definitely in the wrong, your response was strange but people sometimes react in unusual ways in scary situations so don’t beat yourself up about that, he had no right to shout directly at your child either. your husband should be quicker in future or try and anticipate your child’s behaviour going forwards, but even if he isn’t it doesn’t give people free reign to speak to you, and especially your child, like that

Really, you should have just walked away. There's idiots everywhere.

But, for what it's worth, your child in his "gorgeous phase" is only "gorgeous" to you. To everyone else he's a poorly supervised toddler.

Sorry your 'gorgeous' son, and then throwing in the new favourite word for everyone who dares to disagree with a woman be they male or female a little further along misogyny- you just showed that you don't care that your son ran off to somewhere he shouldn't have, then you go about lecturing some random man like you are much smarter than he is by using long fancy words.

Maybe you should have been more concerned that your child had run off than giving a lecture to some random man.

He is in that gorgeous stage where he had just started to talk a little more coherently and where he absolutely loves running around and climbing

It's a gorgeous stage to you. It's not necessarily gorgeous to the people around you who have come to a very expensive botanical gardens, rather than a kids' playground, for the day.

He shouldn't have sworn but your child is 18 months old and is not actually going to register or remember that he was sworn at. And the man was absolutely right to point out that you need to not let your toddler run all over the place at a venue which isn't designed for that purpose. Of course your toddler doesn't know he can't run on the gravel, which is why it's not the right place for him to be taken to run around and climb.

I was at a zoo with my mum yesterday and a toddler kept banging on the glass of the reptile tanks and the mother gave exactly the same excuse as you did when the keeper pointed her towards the signs that tell you not to do that. The keeper said 'Of course I don't expect a toddler to read the signs or follow instructions but would you mind holding her hand or carrying her in the reptile house because you do need to stop her from doing that, sorry'.

Sick to death of benignly smiling parents going, 'Aah, he's gorgeous, he's just a toddler,' as some out of control rampaging child damages something.

Yes, he's just a toddler, so you keep him under control. It's your responsibility. You know the gardens, you knew there was a place that would be attractive to a small child but you let the situation develop. There's a reason why these areas are not to be walked on.

If you said, 'I'm sorry,' to the man, it probably wouldn't have escalated the way it did. Instead, you basically said, 'How dare you complain to me because we failed to control our child.' Instead, you're getting chippy with people saying that you should not have let the situation happen.

And yes, I have been a parent and I am now a grandparent of 4.

Two wrongs don’t make a right.

This is what I mean about doubling down.

Teenagers filming aren’t climbing all over the displays, causing damage. Look at the post on here from someone who worked at Kew Gardens to see why your toddler’s behaviour is an issue.

I have twins, I’m not unsympathetic to the fact that sometimes little children do things they’re not supposed to. But you apologise and accept that you slipped up. These things happen. You seem oblivious to this fact.

The fact remains you should have been watching your child more closely. What if they were rare, precious plants he trampled over? That’s still fine because “cognitive development”?

Those areas are no-go for a reason.

The man was a dick but your attitude isn’t great either.

Eye-roll all you want - pretty much what I’d expect from someone refusing to take responsibility for their actions.

How did they slip up? They went and retrieved him