To think school should’ve let me keep ds4 back a year?

[BulletinGuru]

hi im new here so sorry if this is in the wrong place.

my ds4 started reception this week, hes only just turned 4 in feb so hes one of the youngest. hes finding it really hard, crying every morning, not wanting to go in, teachers saying hes not joining in with carpet time and gets upset when hes told off.

i did ask last year about keeping him back until hes older but school said its not really possible unless theres “special reasons”. i just feel like hes not ready yet. hes still quite babyish, wants his dummy sometimes at night and struggles with writing. some of the other kids are nearly 5 and it seems unfair hes expected to keep up.

dh says “he will be fine” and i should just give it time but its horrible seeing him so upset.

aibu to think they should let younger ones start later?

How on earth is 4 too young to expect a child to be out of nappies and not sucking on a dummy?

First and foremost if there is no SEN you need to take steps to get rid of dummy and toilet train.

He won't be the youngest. My eldest is a end of August baby. It was hard but eventually the age makes no difference.

I had my eldest do mornings only till October, then morning and lunch till December.

You could try and stagger?

Same here, end of August and started school a week later. None of the kids will be 5 yet!

Both my two had dummies at night through reception - after nights lying awake worrying id never get them off them, in the end i bribed them which worked. Think a lego person or hot wheels csr for every night without, then after a whole week something bigger they wanted.

My youngest was potty trained when started school, but regressed a few months in and wet himself everyday- as teacher didn't regular remind/make them go to the loo and he was too busy to go. Again bribed him, for every dry day, along with teacher asking him to go every break time etc - which worked!!

“he’s really stubborn and anxious and as soon as i push too much he just shuts down, same with the dummy”

Gently, OP, I’m afraid you have taught him that if he’s stubborn, then he’ll get his own way. At four and a half, he shouldn’t have a dummy - it’s not good for his teeth. I got rid of my Dd’s dummy by buying something she wanted (in her case, a doll) and putting it on the shelf in her room and saying, “This is for a big girl who doesn’t have a dummy.” Of course, she wanted it, so I said she would have to throw her dummy away - herself - in the bin, and then she could have it. Of course there were a few tears at bedtime! But I pointed out that she had her dolly now to take to bed, and it only took a couple of nights for it to be fine. So maybe there’s some truck or something that your DS would like, that you can “swap” the dummy for. He needs to throw it away, though, so you can remind him that he chose to do it and that now he’s a big boy who has (whatever the new toy is) instead.

This.

You're not talking about any SEN symptoms.

He may be a sensitive boy and I sympathise, I understand first hand what it's like, but it's not that unusual and you can't back away because of that and not teach him the basics.

Is he your youngest? How did you deal with your older children?

Is anything stressing him out at home?

I think your first step is to talk to his teachers about what he is actually like at school. He is just older than average for the year so him being young won't be a problem, because he isn't. However he does sound like he is having some difficulties other children may not be. I would talk to his teachers and see what he is really like in school though. Are they actually finding his childlike behaviour difficult to manage? The chances are that, if they've not contacted you yet, he isn't that behind others! Also does he come out with loads of packs of wet clothes, because if he doesn't, and they haven't said anything, then obviously toileting in school is no issue!

Aside - is he wearing pull-ups all the time? If so, this is likely what's holding him back. They feel like a nappy, so the kids presume they should pee in them!

Dummies are for babies that haven’t grown teeth yet. Bin them tonight. Yes, he will niggle for a few nights but it really does have to go. He needs to start adapting to the world.

Just give him time to settle in. My DC had occasional accidents when they started school, wasn't an issue (I just packed them spare pants/uniform to take with them just in case). They'd cry and be clingy at drop off time in the early days. It just takes time for them to settle in to a new place and new routine. My DS was the eldest in the year (birthday end of Sept), whilst my DD was the youngest (end of August). Both had gone to nursery pretty much FT before starting school, and both did fine with settling in after some short weeks and all was ok. Keep speaking to teachers and they'll know what to do with helping the Yr R kids to settle in and get used to things.

It does take boys longer to be dry at night. It’s a biological thing. I’ve a girl and boy. My daughter just decided she was done with nappies one day and that was that for night and day, my son was the same for during the day but him and his male friends all still had occasional night accidents until 7-9ish. So don’t worry too much about that. We swapped to reusable night time pants rather than pull ups, they are a bit more discreet.

As many people have already said, most children in other countries will still be in an educational setting at 4, and will still be expected to be toilet trained etc.

Literally not too young for all that is to be expected.

Children in other countries don't get potty trained and dummies removed aged 5 because they're starting school aged 6. They'll have been in an educational setting long before starting formal school.

OP - be honest - are you babying if he's your youngest? @BulletinGuru

Re: the potty training. I'd suggest swapping the pull ups for potty training pants, you still get a little bit of absorbency but they can't comfortably wet themselves like they can in pull ups. Worked a treat with my ASD son, still took a couple of months but letting him have nappies wasn't moving him forward at all.

Re: the dummy. Does he have it at all in the day time? I would be very very concerned about his teeth, do you take him to the dentist regularly? Would he respond to a "chew buddy" or similar? It might still give him the oral comfort but without being something you keep in your mouth for long periods.

I would certainly ask to speak to your schools Special Educational Needs Co-ordinator as this doesn't sound like neuro-typical behaviour and the school may be able to put some things in place to help him settle.

I have a lotof sympathy for you, I've been in a similar position seeing my son go into school crying everyday and it's heart breaking. We've finally got him going into school happily now he's in YR2 but my God it took so much work, meeting with the school, endles paperwork, trail and error before finding what he responded well to. It can be over whelming to even consider where to start, but help is out there for you and your son, you might just have to fight for it a bit first.

You ARE making excuses. My march born 4 year old had a dummy until his 4th birthday and wasn’t reliably potty trained until just after he turned 4 (weeks though, not months) so I’m not unsympathetic to having a stubborn toddler, he was very stubborn. But we found strategies because we knew how important it was to prepare him for school. It’s literally your main job as a parent and you have failed him.

Dummy: ‘you are a big boy now so can’t have your dummy at night time anymore, but let’s make it a special home so you can see it and say hi to it whenever you want to’ - £2.99 for a wooden box from The Works, he decorated it and his dummy now lives inside it on the windowsill where it’s ‘safe’. He is comforted knowing it’s there, but He’s not looked at it once.

Potty training: pants on, no pull ups from now on. Let him go to ASDA and pick a few packs of cool pants. Then, One chocolate button for a wee in the potty, 2 for a poo. No punishment if he has accidents, but no chocolate either. No chocolate or sweet treats at any other time. Then once he’s cracked it, pivot to one chocolate button at the end of the day if all wees and poos are on the potty. Leave overnight potty training until he’s consistently waking up with a completely dry pull up. Once you start, DO NOT put him back in a pull up during the day. He puts his pants on as soon as he gets dressed. Going backwards and forwards with it is incredibly confusing for him. you will have extra washing to do, so be it. By leaving it until school
you've made this extra hard for yourself so you will need to make yourself available to go into school during the day to change your child when he has accidents. Teachers are not nursery nurses.

It was a far better system when they have jan intake for the younger July /aug born

where deferring for a year means will be the oldest in the class v some being really young and over a years diff

People are being unnecessarily horrible in these comments.

Up until a few months ago my four year old (May born) was very similar. He was wee trained but stool withholding to a degree that was becoming quite dangerous. We’d tried everything, were under paediatrics and had various different things to try from the doctors.

People fail to realise that a lot of children unfortunately don’t follow the ‘patterns’ that we all take for granted and hope for when we have children. I would talk to the school. Maybe discuss a phased entry if possible. If my child had continued to cry on entry etc I probably would have considered homeschooling or taking a hybrid approach.

Your concern for your child is not misplaced. We start children at school very young in the UK. I don’t think you’re wrong for feeling that it may be too soon for him. We don’t all follow a linear pattern.

I hope you find a plan that helps you as a family.

My son was late potty training at 3 and his pre school gave me some great tips at the time - we cracked it in a week. I'd get rid of the pull ups for day time immediately. Have night time 'pants' like the ninja pj pants but don't get the same brand/type as you used to use in day time.

Take him to your local shop and get him to choose his big boy going to school pants with his favourite design and then wear them consistently day in day out. Take him to the toilet every 20/30 minutes to get him used to using it. If he has an accident then not an issue, mop it up and carry on.

It'll click and the message needs to be big grown up boy, no pull ups in reserve for just in case.

Re the drop off. Kids pick up on parent feelings. So be bright and breezy all cbeebies smiles and really big up school over the weekend and Monday morning. Then at drop off just give off really positive vibes. If necessary he can help the teacher with a special job if you can get them involved.

All the best but you should have done the above months ago.

No wonder no has any resilience anymore 🤦🏻‍♀️

thanks everyone, i know i prob sound all over the place but its hard to explain in one post. he’s not actually my youngest, i have a 14 month old as well, so he’s ds4, not ds5. i guess thats part of why its so tricky with the potty training, i try so many times with him but with the baby and the others its just hard to do consistently.

i have tried the pull ups thing and even proper potty training pants like some of you suggested but he just refuses some days, will scream or cry, sometimes wee’s in the pants anyway and then it becomes a battle i cant win.

the dummy is mostly night time, he sleeps badly without it, i did try over summer but he barely slept and got really grumpy and clingy so i felt i had to give in a bit. he can be stubborn and sensitive but hes not special needs as far as we know, nursery never raised anything other than he’s clingy and a bit anxious at times.

i know i prob have babied him too much, maybe because he’s the last “big” boy before the baby, and yes i know i need to push him more but i also dont want him to hate school or break his confidence. it’s all just a balancing act and some days i feel like im failing.

When did you start potty training? Pull ups for extended use just encourages laziness he doesn't see why he should bother. He should be self dressing most can do the trousers/pants on/off before 3 .....do you feel he has a sen or have you actively supported independence? Often if you treat as a baby they continue as a baby. I'm querying it as you say just turned 4....he's nearer to 5 at 4 and 7 months I've never heard a parent say just turned after a month or two, when It's 4, 4 and a half or nearing 5.
Night time wetting is hormone controlled and isn't related, often not happening until 5 or older.
He will ask for a dummy until you remove it.

Very often children cry while Mum's there and then as soon as she's gone they are fine. The trick is not to prolong saying goodbye.

Have you spoken to the teacher about your concerns?

It actually makes a bit more sense now you say he has a younger brother - he probably wants the same attention you give to the baby.

One of mine was not great with getting to the toilet for poos in reception, partly laziness, partly stubborn etc.

With him we made no fuss or attention but he had to get out his clean pants and he had to put his dirty pants into the utility room sink. We’d help with cleaning up if he really had smeared, but otherwise we gently directed. He soon realised that making the effort to go to the toilet was less effort than not.

Id be very much making it no option to go back to pull-ups during the day and going over to the pyjamas pants at night to make it very clear they are only for nights.

Act very bored and disinterested about accidents and get him to get the clean pants and put the dirty ones in the wash. He’s more than old enough to change his own pants and wash his hands etc.

it can be hard with the youngest for many reasons, but he’s going to be just fine with some strength from you and absolute resolve to get it done.

Hardly any of them will be 5 yet. Unless they had a birthday last week they are all 4.