Ex partner handing care of our daughter over to her mother and I'm not happy about it.

[Neil90]

I apologise that this is long but I'm a dad in need of some advice from anyone who's been through similar or knows how it works.

I have an 8 year old daughter with my ex partner, we share custody 50/50 this was mutually agreed 7 years ago when we split.

Fine relationship we get along fine and never usually have any disagreements about our daughter

Last week ex decided to start doing overnight care work so she stays in the client's home all night with them and due to this has decided to give our daughter to her mother to care for whilst its her time, I've told her im not happy with this and that if she is not able to or does not wish to care for our daughter then she is to come to me full time, her mother is a nice lady but chain smokes in her flat, its a tiny one bedroom cluttered flat in a rough area and im not happy with my daughter living there 50% of the time.

The main issues I've pointed out to ex are

I'm not happy with her being stuck in a small flat with someone who chain smokes, there are health problems linked to excessive second hand smoke.

The condition of the flat, its messy and cluttered and generally not in great condition.

Daughter does not have a bedroom in the flat, she's sleeping on the sofa whilst keeping her clothes in a duffle bag, i seen my daughter yesterday and she stinks of smoke.

There is some young lads who have a flat on her street, little thugs who are in all sorts of trouble but the real issue is that they have two big alligators that run loose on the street with no control whatsoever, I'm sick with the thought of one of them getting my daughter because she wouldn't stand a chance against them.

I'm also just not happy that she's going to be raised by a grandparent half the time whilst she has a loving family here that can take care of her.

I'm married with a step child who is 9, my daughter gets on great with her step mum and step sister so no problems in that area, she has a lovely room here all to herself and a garden full of toys etc, she's able to ride her bike and be a child whilst here but when she's with her grandma she's stuck in a tiny one bed flat and can't go outside due to rough people on the street and the dogs.

My ex is refusing to let me have our daughter full time as she feels like she won't be a parent if I have her all the time, I'm more than happy for her to see daughter whenever she wishes with absolutely no restrictions, she's welcome in my home, welcome to take daughter whenever she likes and call whenever she likes, have her when she's off work and holidays but she's standing firm and refusing this.

We've never been to court over daughter before as we've always had a fine relationship and put her first but im thinking court will be my only option. Does anyone with experience of this know how it would go? Is it likely to go in my favour?

I'm worried because I have autism, high functioning autism but a good lawyer could easily make me fold under pressure in court, i own my own home and business, im a good dad and husband and my daughter has never came in to danger or anything like that in my care but a lawyer would have nothing else to use against me apart form my autism and I would 100% get overwhelmed in court under the pressure.

If that was the issue, why would she want her kid living full time with a smoker? Least worst would be sleeping at grandmothers the two nights a week that she is working and at home the rest of the time.

Because she doesnt want to bring up her own child. She wants the time and money to live her best life, child free. Its pretty clear to me.

Its not always men who cant be arsed to parent.

I agree that is probably it, but as we were discussing, that is the missing piece of the puzzle.

The DD DOESN'T prefer it this way, that's the whole point. It's not about the OP or his ex or the grandmother. It's what's best for the DD. Being surrounded by smoke is not best for her. Sleeping on a sofa (no matter how comfy you can imagine it to be), is not a bed It's not normal. This little girl deserves a bedroom and she has two, but she's only allowed to sleep in the one at her Dad's. Can you honestly imagine telling your children they can't sleep in their own bed and have to sleep on a sofa for a week at a time? She must feel abandoned. And on top of that she is stuck within that flat unable to have a nice place to play, which she has at her Dad's.

I don't know why people think the grandmother should have more parental rights than the actual parent. Can you imagine a woman came on here and said my MIL has taken over ExH's responsibilities, so now my DC is living half the time with ex-MIL, sleeping on the couch in a smokey room with nowhere to safely place outside.

Anyone who says they'd tell the woman in this scenario to do anything other than refuse to send DC back until ExH provided a nice place to stay with a bed, is not being truthful.

Couldnt agree more.

@Neil90 s issue was posting honestly, as a man. He was always going to get a kicking purely because she is the mother and what she says goes in the minds of many.

If he had posted with the sexes reversed then the shouts of "dont send her back, get an emergency court order" etc would have been in the very first response!

I hate the "All mumsnetters are man hating bitches" narrative that is pedalled online, but its easy to see where it comes from on the basis of this thread.

What made her change after 7 years of looking after her?

Rubbish.

She’s realised that she can earn a lot of money doing overnight care. My DiL did 12 hour waking shifts 6 days a week for a while and she was earning in excess of £1000 a week. Waking nights are paid at a much higher rate. I also suspect there’s a new boyfriend in the mix somewhere, and DD is getting in the way. It appears, from what OP says, that this is a permanent arrangement - it’s not just nights away, his ex has said she doesn’t want DD split between three homes so grandma has full time care. OP is very much within his rights to not hand his DD over at the end of his contact time, because no court has granted grandma custody.

Lots can change? 7 years is not even half a child’s lifetime.

Maternal burnout can happen to any mother (stats suggest 1/20 mothers - ie 5% - chose to leave their families). My mother regularly abandoned my sisters and I during our childhoods from the age of 4 to 15. Sometimes just for a weekend, but often for a fortnight. Always involved a date and a man. She’d have happily walked out permanently if a better offer came along and I’ve, sadly, met many people over the course of my lifetime with similar experiences. Whether it’s because they feel unsupported, have mental health issues and/or just resent their kids/lives and want an out, many women DO do it. All it took was for my mother was a man in a shiny new jag to turn her head, as she was always chasing the money…

New BF who didn't want DD in the way?

@OneCleverEagle Where did OP say mum has a new bf? I must've missed that bit.

PP are surmising that this may be the trigger for OP’s ex’s change in behaviour and decision to move her DD into the grandmothers FT during her 50% share of her DD’s time/care. OP does not state or hint it, but it would not be surprising, would it?

Where did he say that they owned a house prior to the split? Where did he say that she needed to take a night job because she couldn't afford her rent? Those are both assumptions that you've made with no evidence.

Exactly, can’t believe the poster didn’t feel embarrassed

Actually she can’t - has been explained several times. Ex has handed over DD to the grandmother to parent full time on ex’s contact time. Ex has been clear about this. There is no court order giving grandma custody so OP is within his rights to not hand over his DD to grandma and either wait for ex to take him to court to challenge it, or do it himself. His DD, his business.

@steff13 Likely the OP would have mentioned a new bf.

Likely that ex hasn't told him

@OneCleverEagle Well at least the OP will be able to answer the questions I have raised quite easily.

Can you point out where OP says it’s two nights a week that mum works ? Because in every update he has actually said that mum has relinquished care to the childs’ grandmother full time - for the whole of the time mum is supposed to have her. Nowhere is is mentioned that it’s only two nights. I do wish people would stop making things up to suit their narrative.

Not if he doesn’t know. And as I’ve pointed out a few times it may not be anything to do with a new man. The ex works as a carer. If she has sussed out a job on which she works full 12 hour night shifts - what are called waking shifts - she can earn a lot of money. My DiL did this over six nights a week and was earning in excess of £1000 a week. It’s exhausting and not sustainable for very long, but it can be lucrative.

A HEMNES bed frame fits a full European single mattress- i.e. bigger than a UK single! It's a bed which can be used as a (very uncomfortable) sofa, not a sofa that can be used as a bed. It also has large drawers which would be enough room to store at least the basics in terms of toys and clothes.

If her Grandma really loved her, she'd give her bed to the child and go outside to smoke.

I'm wondering if you force your children to sleep on a sofa whilst you have a bedroom and a bed, and smoke around them, because otherwise I cannot see why or how you're defending this.

@InMyShowgirlEra Eh?! I'm sure @ScrollingLeaves did say about a sofabed for the granddaughter or getting her a bed?

Are we talking about the Hemnes bed that costs £499?!!! That's expensive and certainly not everyone can afford that sort of money. I certainly couldn't have when we first left my ex-husband and moved into rented. For weeks we bed-shared until I could afford bunks.

Yeh well if you can't afford a bed for your child on a full time job and £1000 a month in maintenance, then you should let them live with the parent who can manage their money to provide basic essentials.

Sleeping on a sofa is NOT acceptable for an 8 yo child half of the time and if you let your child sleep on a sofa when there's another option, you're a bad parent.

Idk what kind of council flat bedrooms you're used to where you can just fit an extra bed in. Most of them only just fit one bed.

@InMyShowgirlEra I've never lived in social housing as I've always been able to afford to rent privately on my salary. Our bedroom is massive so my little one has a single next to our king.
A £499 bed is not an "essential'... tell me you're wealthy without telling me you're wealthy!
You can by an adequate single bed for a huge amount less.
Also, any idea how much privately renting actually costs these days? I don't think you do if you think a single person doing a ft job (possibly min wage) plus £1000 is going to necessarily cover that, food, bills, clothing etc. Have you ever rented before?
My husband and I both work ft and privately rent (no choice), so we know the costs involved.
Please don't refer to social housing as a "council flat" either. It reeks of classism.

1. If you live in a massive house big enough to have an extra bed in the bedroom and think everyone else does, you're the one that's out of touch.
2. I was not the one who brought up the Hemnes, PP was, and this bed can be obtained much cheaper second hand on facebook marketplace- I paid £150 for the one we have.
3. I rented for years. Our kids (daughter and stepdaughter) always had their own bed and own space, even when I had no money for clothes and luxuries. That's what parents have to do.
4. I live in an ex-council house. The fact you think the term council flat is classist shows your own prejudices and snobbishness.
5. It's not classist to call out shit parenting. Plenty of middle to upper class parents are shit, plenty of working class parents are great. The mother described by OP is a shit parent.