Ex partner handing care of our daughter over to her mother and I'm not happy about it.

[Neil90]

I apologise that this is long but I'm a dad in need of some advice from anyone who's been through similar or knows how it works.

I have an 8 year old daughter with my ex partner, we share custody 50/50 this was mutually agreed 7 years ago when we split.

Fine relationship we get along fine and never usually have any disagreements about our daughter

Last week ex decided to start doing overnight care work so she stays in the client's home all night with them and due to this has decided to give our daughter to her mother to care for whilst its her time, I've told her im not happy with this and that if she is not able to or does not wish to care for our daughter then she is to come to me full time, her mother is a nice lady but chain smokes in her flat, its a tiny one bedroom cluttered flat in a rough area and im not happy with my daughter living there 50% of the time.

The main issues I've pointed out to ex are

I'm not happy with her being stuck in a small flat with someone who chain smokes, there are health problems linked to excessive second hand smoke.

The condition of the flat, its messy and cluttered and generally not in great condition.

Daughter does not have a bedroom in the flat, she's sleeping on the sofa whilst keeping her clothes in a duffle bag, i seen my daughter yesterday and she stinks of smoke.

There is some young lads who have a flat on her street, little thugs who are in all sorts of trouble but the real issue is that they have two big alligators that run loose on the street with no control whatsoever, I'm sick with the thought of one of them getting my daughter because she wouldn't stand a chance against them.

I'm also just not happy that she's going to be raised by a grandparent half the time whilst she has a loving family here that can take care of her.

I'm married with a step child who is 9, my daughter gets on great with her step mum and step sister so no problems in that area, she has a lovely room here all to herself and a garden full of toys etc, she's able to ride her bike and be a child whilst here but when she's with her grandma she's stuck in a tiny one bed flat and can't go outside due to rough people on the street and the dogs.

My ex is refusing to let me have our daughter full time as she feels like she won't be a parent if I have her all the time, I'm more than happy for her to see daughter whenever she wishes with absolutely no restrictions, she's welcome in my home, welcome to take daughter whenever she likes and call whenever she likes, have her when she's off work and holidays but she's standing firm and refusing this.

We've never been to court over daughter before as we've always had a fine relationship and put her first but im thinking court will be my only option. Does anyone with experience of this know how it would go? Is it likely to go in my favour?

I'm worried because I have autism, high functioning autism but a good lawyer could easily make me fold under pressure in court, i own my own home and business, im a good dad and husband and my daughter has never came in to danger or anything like that in my care but a lawyer would have nothing else to use against me apart form my autism and I would 100% get overwhelmed in court under the pressure.

If your daughter turns up at school stinking of stale cigarettes and generally more dishevelled than before, the school will likely start raising concerns themselves. In any event, as a responsible parent, you should inform the school about the child’s change of circumstances and ask them to keep an eye out for any changes in mood, behaviour, learning, etc.

Oh my God the bias against men on Mumsnet is off the scale on this thread! Imagine if a father with 50% custody was palming his daughter off to the child’s chain-smoking grandfather where she didn’t have her own room and slept on a sofa? You would be 100% NOT unreasonable. But because it’s her mum doing this it’s a reasonable childcare arrangement. It is not.

No advice here I’m afraid OP, other than you sound like a great father and I support you wholeheartedly.

The mother should have thought of that then, shouldn't she?

No, we don't think she's clever.

Just using a normal word doesn't make you clever. And if you don't understand something, look it up

That's always worked for me

Many people answering the thread seem to have this idea in mind from the OP’s posts: after 7 amicable years the mother suddenly does not want her daughter anymore during her 50% time, so has decided to dump her on her own chain smoking mother in a one bedroom slum where the little girl will sleep on a dirty sofa and keep her clothes in a bag, while she, the mother, lives in her own nice two bedroom flat while doing night shifts, raking it in getting higher night-pay, continuing to get UC, and possibly £1000 per month from ex, while refusing to let sweet ex, who is a wonder-dad, from taking dd on full time (and even allowing mum to come and go freely to visit when she can) , and giving DD everything in the way of a lovely home, a loving stepmother working at home, and a stepsister - even though the dd herself is begging to stay with dad instead of at the grandmother’s foul place.

To me though it just feels that something is missing and doesn’t quite make sense:

Rich, loving, comfortable wonder-world vs careless, care-free, uninterested, money-grubbing mother, her old chain smoking filthy-habited grandmother, and slavering vicious dogs wandering around outside.

If this picture is altogether the whole picture, I apologise.

@ClairDeLaLune a grandfather is not the equivalent to a grandmother.

This is a forum for adults where people use adult vocabulary.

If you're struggling, your options are to look the word up so you know what it means, or alternatively go and watch CBeebies which will be easier for you to understand.

If you were trying to show that the reasons for not supporting OP are not entirely because of anti-man bias (which is also anti-woman, to assume that women are designed to be caregivers, fyi) you harpooned it with your bizarre assertion that grandfathers are not equal to grandmothers.

@ScrollingLeaves Yes I am with you on this one. The story doesnt ring right for the reasons you have given.

Insane because he doesn't want his DD sleeping on a sofa in a dirty smoky flat? Dear me...

Thank you

You've explained it perfectly

@ScrollingLeaves To me though it just feels that something is missing and doesn’t quite make sense:

The only thing I'm missing is why the ex doesn't want DD at home with her when she isn't working nights.
I suspect she has a new BF who she wants to spend her nights off with and they don't want DD in the way. The 'don't want her spread across 3 homes' thing is just an excuse.

I am wondering how many of the commenters here have put their own child in this situation or worse and that's why they've taken this so personally.

Its absolutely not acceptable. If you fell on hard times, the other parent was MIA and you had to take a substandard living arrangement for a short time (and FWIW if I was stuck in a 1 bed flat with an 8 yo, I'd be on the sofa and she'd be in the bedroom on a proper bed- and I'm an ex-smoker who quit the moment I found out I was pregnant and never once smoked indoors or in front of my stepdaughter) then that's one thing.

If you CHOSE to put your child in that position, especially after they told you they didn't want it, when your child had another safe, loving home to go to, you were selfish and putting your own wants to be around your kids above their right to have a healthy environment to live in.

In this case, the mother isn't even being around her. She's either doing it to spite the father or for money.

I wouldn't be happy with my child being in that environment either. Can you prove the state of grandma's flat if you had to? You won't be able to change things unless you go to court but in my experience from my husbands experience and other people I know who have been through court is that generally you cannot say who a child can be around in the time the child spends with her unless for very good reason (and even then it's not your decision it's the courts) even if she's there all of mums 50%. What I'd advise you to do is get some legal advice? You usually can get half and hour to an hour free with most solicitors so do that before you go any further.

I think this is different though. Mum is not leaving DD with Grandma to babysit. DD has moved in with Grandma completely. She also doesn't have her own bed. The court definitely asks questions about where the child sleeps and stores their belongings.

I have a family member who was sexually abused by
a grandfather from 3 - 6 and I consider an 8 year old girl alone with a grandfather, uncle older brother etc to potentially to be in danger.

It is not that. uncommon. If you think you can swap a grandmother for a grandfather that is your view but one I entirely disagree with, even though, of course, not all grandfathers are like that.

I cannot understand why you think it is fine for this mum to shove her daughter off to her mum instead of letting her live with her dad!! The little girl has two parents, one wants her, the other has sent her off to her mums house. Yes children sleep on sofas in their parents home, it’s not ideal but that’s not the main point here - it’s that it’s not her parents house!! (& the smoking- I’d go to court every day of the week to get my child out of a smokers house) This is a no brainer and I expect the court will agree.

Let's hope so in this case as it's a completely unsuitable environment for a child to spend any time.

It's well known that male relatives including fathers and stepfathers are a higher risk of SA than female relatives.

Just to be clear, if this exact same situation was in place except that it was a Dad who had moved his daughter in with her Grandfather and OP was the Mum, you would be absolutely fine with that as long as the Grandfather was not sexually abusing the daughter?

"Not being molested" is a very low bar to set for children's wellbeing.

This is not correct. OP has PR and his ex has effectively handed her parenting responsibilities full time to the childs’ grandmother. OP was clear on this - his ex doesn’t want the child moving between three homes, so she is living full time with the grandmother. There is no court order mandating that the grandmother has custody so OP is within his rights to refuse to hand his DD back. It will then be up to the mother whether she wants to challenge this herself through the courts, or OP can do this himself. The DD herself will have her wishes taken into account as she’s old enough to say what she wants.

No, we don't think she's clever.

I’m insulted

I really can't believe what I've just read here!
I was that single parent living in a private rental years ago, and if I'd had to take a job that meant either giving my son to my Mother for him to sleep on the sofa, with no room for any of his things around him or letting him go to his Dads it would have been a no brainer.
When you become a parent you stop putting yourself first and always think of the child, don't you?

Of course we don't have the Exs side of the story, that's how it works here. Maybe she has really good reasons for her decisions, except that she is not being fair to her daughter.
She isn't having an occasional night on Nan's sofa, she is doing 7 nights straight. With none of her belongings and comforts around her.
Even if you truly believe smoking around a child and making them sleep on a sofa in the living room is not a problem, can you not see the damage this might be causing?
We don't know if Mum discussed it with her daughter and reassured her that she was still loved. We only know that the little girl has already said she is unhappy with the situation.
Leaving aside all the nonsense about classism and "driving the Ex to despair" the important thing is that little girl and her feelings!

@Neil90 I know you indicated that you have already spoken with Ex about the situation, but is it worth asking for a proper sit down and talk with her, just an open and honest adult conversation?
I'm sure that you both want what's best for your daughter, maybe there's room for some negotiation and reassurance? Maybe helping with transport or whatever is needed for Grandma to stay at Ex's house, maybe changing your week on, week off arrangement to something more flexible around her work nights?
I do agree with the poster who said that it would be best to keep it as amicable as possible for the little girls sake, nothing worse than battling parents.
But if all else fails, go for full custody, your daughter deserves to know somebody is putting her first!

@ItsNotYou852 But I'm guessing you didn't have to take an evening job? How did you pay the rent and bills?

I assume Grandmother isnt asked to look after the child at mothers house because of her smoking?

Any update from OP?

The only thing I'm missing is why the ex doesn't want DD at home with her when she isn't working nights.

This is what I want to know.

I hope that’s not the reason because that’s frankly disgusting - a mum not wanting her house to smell of smoke so she sends her daughter to live in it.