To think the school could have cut DS some slack here

[Sprogonthetyne]

DS is autistic, really struggles with school in general but especially when there's transitions and change, so the start of term is hard for him. He's been crying and having anxiety attacks about going back to school for the last week and is only a hairs breath away from school refusal. He went back today and had a really good morning, which took an enormous amount of effort from him.

This afternoon he got told off for using his glue stick wrongly. Not inappropriately, just spreading glue across the whole surface he was sticking (as preferd by last year's teacher) instead of a dot in each corner (preferd by this years teacher), and this completely unravelled him. He'd been trying so hard to manage the big changes and hold everything together, so the unfairness of still being in trouble despite his effort and for something minor that he didn't even know had changed pushed him over the edge and he ended up having a meltdown (which I know isn't ideal, I'm not defending his reaction).

While I know I aught to suport the school, I can't help but feel they could really have picked their battles and just left the kid to glue however he wants.

I think OP that you're so skilled at parenting an autistic child that you don't realise that not everyone else is quite as aware and on the ball as you are. Does his 121 have any real training on autism beyond a day course or a few meetings? It wouldn't surprise me if she's a regular TA with almost no training. Your issue is with the teacher anyway because the teacher is in charge and the TA is just following instructions. If the TA needs to change her approach then the teacher needs to be advising her on that.

I would not make the assumption that 'the school' knowing and understanding every way ds's autism plays out means that his current teacher is even close to being up to speed. I found throughout DS's schooling that many teachers had no real idea or understanding and things weren't really communicated well form one class to the next. At secondary school they sometimes weren't even aware of his diagnoses.

I would do a few things:

I would spend some time explaining to DS that there are some new rules in his new class and one new rule is to glue in the corners, you can then practice this at home by cutting out pictures in magazines or collecting up his drawings and making a scrap book of them. IMO it is much, much better to help him to adapt to the new rules and support him in being more flexible then it is to just send in 25 glue sticks.

The second thing is I really think you need to schedule a meeting with the teacher to explain DS's issues and how they're likely to play out in class. You're the expert. It sounds like he might suffer with rejection sensitive dysphoria and so telling him he's doing something wrong leads to huge anxiety and shame. I would also talk about him having had an autistic meltdown and that when he is in that state he is completely overwhelmed. Punishing him for it by stopping him from going out to play the next day is not appropriate, not least because he won't be able to relate the two and it will just lead to him feeling the same shame and anxiety the next day which means he will probably spiral then too.

The last thing I'd say is that my son really, really benefited from coming home for lunch at some stages through primary school, it just allowed him to decompress and have some time out. I don't know if this is possible for you but it's another thing that might really help him.

Will this come across as condescending though if I try to explain something they already know. The kid washes his hands 30+ times a day and panics if he is in a room by himself, so his anxiety is pretty obvious, especially for someone who works with 1:1 with him on a daily basis.

We've talked about it during meeting, though not for a few months due to summer, do I need to openly state that it hasn't gone away? Or would his behaviour and the fact it's been ongoing for years be enough for them to realise he still has anxiety?

Perhaps I am overestimating the 1:1s ability to see things like this coming. While I don't know her exact training she is part of the SEN base which caters only to kids with high enough needs to require EHCP's, not all of them will be neurodiverse, but a lot will be. She aparently had 16 years of experience when I met her and has since done 3 years with DS, so I'd be surprised if she hadn't developed an understanding of autistic children in that time.

The issue with this is that next time it won't be the glue sticks and you can't fix everything by buying it on Amazon. There will be changes to the rules and expectations each year and he will encounter constructive criticism throughout his life. I think the focus needs to be on recognising the difference between a telling off and a direction to do something differently.

ND people often struggle with criticism their whole life (me included) but I've had to find strategies to avoid melting down every time I'm told I've done something "wrong".

The other issue is fairness- 8 yos are very sensitive to perceived injustice. They will want to know why one child has 24 glue sticks they can use however they want and they have to follow the rules to use glue sticks properly.

@Sprogonthetyne You wouldn’t expect to have to tell them this considering his level of needs, EHCP and support in place. Won’t do any harm to arrange a meeting though.
Doesn’t sound like there are adequate reasonable adjustments in place as required under the Equality Act.
The glue incident is just an example of something that could happen on a daily basis. ( hopefully not)
I have been told so many times by school staff about ND children having meltdowns when “nothing happened” “ nobody was near him” and similar statements.
It’s often about anxiety levels or sensory overload then one seemingly unimportant incident ( to onlookers not the child) can be what prompts the meltdown. It can literally be what pushes a child over the edge. As I said in my previous post to then punish him the following day isn’t good at all.
Hope you managed to get him into school OK.

That's part of why I've sent a large box of glue sticks directly to the teacher as classroomsupplies. I don't think any child should be getting told off for using up stationary while doing their work.

What do you mean? With a detention or something. That's not okay, for any kid, especially one they know is diagnosed. Sorry just saw the update.

Trying to help him get better (over time) with emotional regulation, is fine, but punishment won't do that. They should focus on staff trying their best and having good training and getting him the support he needs, whether that be referral to therpay or working with an educational psychologist, having a TA etc. Does he have an EHCP?

There is already so many thing that an amazon order can't fix, but this is one thing that it can help with. I'd rather buy the glue and concentrate on working on the other real issues, then spend weeks learning nothing but how to use less glue.

To me it's no different then buying the right cloths so he can focused on learn not tolerateing sensory discomfort. Or the safe food so he can eat. If I can avoid the small obstacles for him, that leaves him the capacity to manage the big obstacles.

Can't you just make up a reason
E.g. "when you were younger it was good to glue all over the sheet because smaller children aren't as strong so need to use more glue. Now you're a big boy in year 4 you're stronger and tidier than you were last year and better at sticking so you only need to glue in the corners. Miss x should have explained this to you but sometimes adults forget things are different in different classes. Teachers have a lot to remember at the start of the year too!"

Basically anything to say it was okay for him to do it x way before but is also okay to do it y way now - neither way was wrong just things have changed. Perhaps use an example like "remember mum used to walk you to class in reception but now she waves goodbye at the gate" or "you used to play in the little yard now you play in the big yard".

The only thing I would add is that you've said a few times the school should have "known" that he was struggling more than usual/already down to his last "spoon" because of back to school, and I appreciate that seems obvious to you - but from the schools perspective they could be thinking that lots of days have the potential to be exacerbating factors - e.g. Friday because its end of the week but also Monday because its the start. Christmas because that's exciting for kids. Any particular weather - snow, very heavy rain, storm. Sunshine because he wants to be out in it or is too hot. His teacher being off sick. Arguing with a friend or sibling. His birthday. Then multiply that by 30 for all the different kids in the class.

They could have even thought the opposite -that being off for so long might mean he is relaxed, not tired as he might be at the end of the week/term and therefore in a good position to receive advice.
At some point they have to establish a baseline and treat every day the same.

Gives a new meaning of 'stick it to the man', though.

I don't teach anymore and this thread is a good example of why. Can you imagine trying to teach this class? You give a completely unremarkable instruction and it leads to this amount of grief. About glue. Now multiply that by 5 to 10 kids and hundreds of instructions per week.

Our system of teaching 30 odd kids the same thing at the same time in the same space doesn't work if parents expect everything, down to minutiae like how glue is applied to worksheets, to be bespoke to their child, a "reasonable adjustment", and up for debate and emails and meetings and passive aggressive postal deliveries. It's completely nuts.

I think this a good idea.

As a SEN parent I get that you want your child’s first day at school to perfect but the staff are just human and mistakes will be made. Mistakes were made with my autistic child yesterday, I am pretty annoyed as it’s meant by child isn’t in state to be able to attend today but I’m channeling that energy to working with the school to come up with a resolution. DD and I are meeting with her key worker this afternoon to sort it out.

I would say I’m the expert on my children and I’m the one who can best read her mood and the most knowlegable of her triggers but I get things wrong some time.

This. I had to teach both my children this- they are rule followers in school. Being spoken to isn't the end of the world- I literally taught them to look at the person and cheerfully say 'okay' - job done.

Also, this. We want mass education as a society for convenience, there HAS to be some element of teaching children how to fit into that to some extent. Reasonable adjustments yes (but you need to add those up for a class of however many and see whether they are still 'reasonable') but the teacher wasn't berating and humiliating him, she was teaching him how things are done in that class.

It's a good job you don't teach any more.

Your system of teaching 30 kids would fall flat on it's arse if you couldn't mitigate neurological distress in your neurodevelopmentally disabled children either.

We don't want ableist teachers responsible for our kids, who do deserve understanding and compassion, and yes, reasonable adjustments like allowing them to do a task that has been set in a way that works for them.

You may have missed that part where this interaction did non involve the class teacher at all. It was his 1:1 who decided he was glueing incorrectly and that the end of a stressful first day was the time to tell him off for this. His 1:1 dose not have 30 other kids to think about, she has 1, she has also worked with him every day for 3 years, so is very familiar with his needs.

..she has also worked with him every day for 3 years, so is very familiar with his needs.

So she always anticipates his mood and stress levels and knows if a particular situation, way of phrasing something or tone of voice will cause a meltdown and so has never got it wrong until before? Does your son ever have meltdowns when he is with you?

I think that the 'period of reflection' thing seems harsh and pointless, but I also think that a lot of blame is being put on the TA for not being a mind reader.

Children who are neurodivergent or have other special needs shouldn't be treated like a child who's just playing up, ffs.

Maybe you should try and explain the concept of "reasonable adjustment" to your kids, and how some children can't deal with stuff in the same way as children who don't have the same needs.

It's not my system and it's not ableist to explain why it isn't working. Reasonable adjustments cease to be reasonable when they apply to a third of the class. It becomes unmanageable.

To anyone who is saying this is a lot of fuss about nothing, imagine you go into work, and there's been a policy change overnight, you've got to change all of your procedures, and you've got a new boss. You can't quite get it right, and your boss and colleagues criticise you.

Frustrating, right?

Ok, you finish your day at work, you go home, you go to sleep, you wake up the next day, and you can't talk.

You go to work again, and they've changed the policy and procedure again, but nobody has told you. You've just got to grips with the change from yesterday, you're half way through your work and then someone starts telling you you're doing it wrong. You want to ask clarifying questions, but you can't get the words out. The thoughts are there in your head, you just want to make sure you've got it right, but you can't understand what you're doing wrong.

Perhaps someone nudges you out of the way, to show you how it's done, but they've just taken away your autonomy, or even worse, someone grabs your hand and makes you do what they would do, but you don't want them to touch you. You can't tell them you don't like that because the words aren't wording.

It would upset you, right?

Maybe the only time you can get your words out is when you're frustrated, maybe you can get some words out but really slowly, or maybe the words you can say don't make sense to a lot of people, and they just keep telling you the things you're doing are wrong.

That's this little boys life. Constant unspoken rules and policy changes, and communication needs that are either implicitly or explicitly seen as inconvenience.

Yes, today it's a glue stick, tomorrow it could be something else, but it could also be the glue stick again. There's no harm in sending him with his own glue sticks to preserve some sense of autonomy. He will always have challenges, but a bit of understanding from the people who oversee his care Monday-Friday 6 hours a day wouldn't go amiss.

Inconvenient =/= unreasonable in the eyes of the law.

My mistake, insted of "should have known" I should have said "did know". Difficulty with transition is clearly documented in his EHCP and struggling at the start of term has been a recurring pattern for the three years they have had him. We talked about it and planned how to manage the transition before the summer, including bringing home a folder of every major change and photos of new areas and people, to look over during the summer. (Not down to new glue use rules, thats why it's the little unexpected changes that floor him not the big one's that have been explained to him). They were definitely 100% awar that it would be a difficult day for him.

Explanations like you suggest would be fine when he's regulated but once he becomes disregulated (in this case by what he perceives to be an unjust telling off), he loses the ability to process any verbal communication. It's not that he doesn't accept the reason, he literally has no idea what your saying.

Reflecting on times when he has been disregulated tends to bring all the emotions back to the surface, as that's all he remembers of the event (he was too overwhelmed to process anything else at the time, so nothing else go put to memory). He has no recollection of who, where or what was said, only that using glue =everyone is angry at me. If I bring it up with him now he will re-live all the emotions of the time and go straight back into panic mode, so still not be able to process any explanation I give.

Usually she is able to anticipate if a wording or tone of voice will be triggering and also recognise signs of stress and adapt her approach accordingly. I believe on this occasion she made a mistake, which we all do from time to time.

My issue it that instead of just accepting she mishandled a situation and moving on, she is blaming and punishing a disabled 8yo for the effect that mistake had on him.

If he smiles and cheerily say okay every time he is told off his is going to be perceived as been flippant and end up in even more trouble

OP.

With regard to objecting to any discipline or punishment meted out by the school in response to meltdowns...

The school have to prove that punishment/disciplinary procedures 'achieve legitimate aim' - in other words, they have to have a quantifiable reason for doing it, where the child will learn a lesson about their behaviour.

In terms of Meltdown, your son isn't in control of those, they're not optional, they're not bad behaviour, so punishing a meltdown is pointless, and does not meet the requirements of 'legitimate aim' because they aren't going to teach your child not to have a meltdown.

You're within your legal rights to object/protest ANY punishment given for Meltdowns under those circumstances.