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Original poster

Teachers: do you find it hard? (high school toilets)

219 replies

Fillyfrog · 02/09/2025 16:41

DD started high school yesterday. We had a transition support meeting before starting (possible asd) and SENCO offered a toilet pass due to lots of anxiety over needing a wee and not being able to go or find a toilet (this is long standing and not just due to new school)
Children are allowed to go at break and lunch and that's it, if they need it any other time it's tough.

Toilet pass wasn't sorted for today and DD begged to go in her last lesson. She said she was close to tears and the teacher still said no. Absolutely not.

I know they have rules for a reason. But, even if she didn't have anxiety and a possible toilet pass

What if someone gets a sudden stomach ache and needs to go to the toilet for a poo quite suddenly?
What if a girl comes on their period suddenly and needs to go and it can't wait until the end of the day? I can't imagine how heartless the teachers must feel to look at a child close to tears on their first day, desperate for the toilet and to just say no and that's it 🙈 it's hard to comprehend as an adult who is able to go to the toilet whenever they want to. It feels like a basic human right.

OP posts:
Anon501178 · 04/09/2025 09:38

rainuntilseptember · 03/09/2025 21:44

Parents could volunteer to do it on a rota.

That would create huge safeguarding risks!

TheLivelyViper · 04/09/2025 09:39

On the other hand, some parents do go too far. Teachers deal with parents shouting at them, denying obvious behaviour even when there’s proof, or saying detentions for fighting or not doing homework (without a good reason) are unfair. That wears teachersdown. The truth is parents don’t trust schools anymore. That started with real problems like poor pastoral care or unfair policies, but it’s gonefurther now. Parents reject almost everything schoolsaybecause they don’t believe they have their child’s best interests at heart. They see school's as only caring about grades, and parents feel they’re left to fight for their kids alone, many times the issues which slowly built distrust are fair ones, but then it spreads to unfair ones.

Fines are a good example of one way this problem has developed it is. They make sense for the tiny number of parents who let their kids miss school with no reason, persistently, but if it is a kid pulling a sickie, that rarely turn persistent. But most absencesare EBSA, undiagnosed SEN, bullying, racism, misogyny, mental health, or poverty and fines don't help this (I know this is government policy and LA's). For years schools didn’t take EBSA seriously, kids were punished, not supported. Only recently have some started recognising it. No wonderparents stopped listening. They watched schools punish their kids instead of helping, (forcing kids back into lesson when they were breaking down, and other examples), sothey withdrew their trust.

The most important thing is that both sides need to accept fault and recognise how the other side are right to a point. Now the relationship is broken. Parents often shout at teachers or refuse to accept discipline. Teachers meanwhile can be dismissive of parents who raise concerns. Decades ago parents sided with teachers, even when they were wrong and nobody advocated for children. Now they side with their kids too much. What’s needed is balance. Parents should listen to their child, then check with the teacher before reacting. Sometimes that will mean realising the school failed, and holding them accountable. Other times it means accepting the child did misbehave and backing the school to deal with it.
What would really help is both sides owning their mistakes and the role they play in problems. If both sides shifted even a little, trust could slowly be rebuilt and they would work together for the success of students rather than being against each other, which is never productive.

VexedofVirginiaWater · 04/09/2025 10:02

noblegiraffe · 03/09/2025 21:23

Schools have no money and no staff. We don't even have enough teachers to teach the kids let alone spare people to watch toilets.

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And it still wouldn't solve the problem of the constant disruption of lessons by children who don't need the toilet but just fancy a bit of a break - even if they don't intend misbehaving or vandalising anything. And ime it would be constant.

sashh · 04/09/2025 10:07

Soontobe60 · 02/09/2025 17:54

Schools are the one workplace where the staff aren’t allowed to go to the toilet whenever they want though.

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Not the only one.

Drivers of busses, delivery vans and taxis can't just go.

After I left school I worked in a catalogue place picking orders, we only got a break when a supervisor took over, the supervisor would walk down the conveyer belt taking over one at a time.

It's not easy to step out of an operating theatre or a cath lab mid procedure.

KindLemur · 04/09/2025 10:10

SomethingInnocuousForNow · 04/09/2025 06:51

Smartphone free schools would solve some many of these issues.

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It would !
but so many parents push back against that. They say their child needs their phone at all times.

KindLemur · 04/09/2025 10:12

TheLivelyViper · 03/09/2025 22:38

First of all, dealing with the issues in general (this isn't just school's responsibility but government, parents, other social institutions etc), so let's be honest, kids are being vapes to each other all the time, during and away from school, not just the toliets. Though on that, I think the home and government have the biggest role. More schools should get those vape and smoke detectors (yes funding should be provided), though I already know scholls many years ago having these. They are specific to the toliet it's happening in and alert staff.

The area of the toliet for sinks etc, should either be one in the toliet room (which should just be individual, not cubicles with weak doors) or that area should be completely open. That way hopefully people can hear if any nonsense starts.

Period passes should be automatic, I've know many schools to do this (and in my experience my lovely head of year on her own). She never had a problem once with it, in 3 years when she did it. 1. Girls had to come to her (though she was lovely so nobody minded), you could do this in the morning or lunch etc, and tell her. She'd then write a note in our planners, with our names and the date (so the whole week), and because she gave them to us, obviously you couldn't come more than once a month. Even if this was extended to a few different teachers, it could still work well - if logged on a wider system. She'd also sign it.

The other issues such as bullying, as I said earlier, banning toilet use isn't stopping that problem - just stoping it happening in one place. Bullying still happens when staff are around, and it's symptomatic of a wider issue. Again with knife crime, that's a whole separate issue, about SS, families with no support system until it gets to late, adultifcaiton and systemic racism in society and school safeguarding processes, poor youth offending support etc. But a kid will still pull out a knife and unfortunately we've seen those incidents to teachers as well (perhaps more metal detectors are needed, I know some academies etc which have these).

On vandalism - that's probably the biggest issue which banning toliet use helps (as for the others it just puts a band aid on the problem). I think it comes from respect and sort of pride in your school. School environments have become about conformity, stripping away student identity and anything which relates to them in the curriculum and overly strict policies on things which have no difference to learning. Kids have always hated school yes. But schools right now aren't safe spaces for kids, they don't feel it's mutual respect anymore, they don't feel part of something (I think especially in massive MATs where everything is copied and pasted and teachers can't adapt things to the school population). Why wouldn't they rebel and break school property. This obviously is a hard issue to deal with, and obviously vandalism costs a lot, and that money can't go elsewhere. But I think having open areas of the sink etc and CCTV there can help (not in the actual toliets but anywhere before it). Trying systems like having more toliets in general and where possible next to offices.

I know some schools have like pastoral teams (non-teaching) and have put the toliets there, and because the office is see-through with glass, all the staff (including lots of admin staff etc who can alert SLT duty) can see straight through, to the biggest boys toliet. Again they have done this with as many toliets as possible and the threat of staff seeing has helped. But they haven't had to ban toliet use, the policy is basically unless you really suspect they're up to something let them go (rare these days I know), some kids still have medical cards but staff know and that just happens with a nod or something. It's one at a time, and it's logged if they spend too long.

Is this all perfect, no, but I do think where possible some of this is workable or should be implemented when schools can (with more money etc). Another great idea I saw, was the card system with an electronic strong lock, however would cost a lot and obviously not possible right now. But ideally would be the solution. I was thinking for disabled toliets there's a radar key (for some not all) and most disabled people buy one and it unlocks those specific toliets. A system like that could work and maybe one key per classroom, teacher gives it out and they come back and hand it in. That saves all the long walking to the office - more chances for long bored walks back and seeing a friend and disrupting a lesson. That would require obviously all toliets to be individual and changed, so not a right now solution, more idealistic.

The incident someone said where a girl was jumped, quick question. Were all the kids in the same class? If so why were so many let out at once. If not were they waiting for her? Like they all asked, but how did they know she was going there then - or did they message on phones during lesson? It's much easier to do it on the playground or out of school, in my experience.

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Re your last point, kids will message each other on Snapchat usually to plan these things during the school day. If challenged on their phone use they will say their mum has messaged them or something or say they are just checking their phone cause their nan is ill. And you then feel like a terrible person for doubting that.

JumpingAnt · 04/09/2025 10:14

TearsForFears25 · 02/09/2025 17:09

I’m 26, and been in my first ‘proper’ job since 2022 - so secondary wasn’t TOO long ago and we were taught the classic, well you can’t go to the toilet when you like because when you’re working that’s not reality…. yes it is! The majority of us don’t have to even mention it to someone! Secondary school is appalling in many ways

It depends on the job though. The teachers who are saying it often can’t go when they want. I work in medical/dental and I can’t just get up and go half way through treating a patient. A surgeon couldn’t just down tools half way through a heart transplant to have a wee. There are actually a lot of jobs where you can’t just get up and do what you want when you want. I actually got moaned at by a patient the other day because I stopped treatment to turn away and sneeze. And I can’t tell you how hard it is to ignore an itch when you’re half way through a treatment and you can’t easily start taking gloves off to scratch it. I also once bled through my trousers during a miscarriage when I was treating a patient. One of those things unfortunately. I had to wait until they left to clean up. Then I ran late because I had to get changed etc. And then the next patient complained because I was running late.

Im not saying no children should be allowed to go to the toilet obviously. Just that it’s not the case that as adults you can just wander about doing what you want all the time. Emergencies yes. But honestly waiting half an hour to use the loo shouldn’t be a huge deal in normal circumstances. What would they do if they were on a bus or tube with no toilets etc? Sometimes you just need to wait. (Again I’m not talking about emergencies).

Fetaface · 04/09/2025 11:28

TheLivelyViper · 03/09/2025 21:49

First of all, there are always plenty of opportunities on a trip, if it's to France they'll be on a plane and they'll be a toliet. Even if it's a coach journey, they normally stop and also they'll all go beforehand as well. A trip isn't every day, it will be once in a while, and for a short period of time. We don't apply situations which are occasional to set the judgements for every day. You're just trying to use one situation to say that that means that should be replicated in lesson, evem when it's in a different environment. If you read by other posts, you'll see the points which I care much more about, rather than just pontificating on one thing which is an occasional event.

I'd say that yes a dead child is bad (to be honest, kids have gone to the toliet on a coach in my experience but yes I understand the risk), so even if they weren't allowed, I'd day the effect on a child (particularly girls as new research is showing links with rises of 275% in girls absences, not just this obviously), if they bleed through, soil themselves, or feel so anxious about lessons they don't come to school, or don't do the work, is also incredibly bad, not just exposing them to easy bullying (when we already known girls feel shame around periods and endure jokes from boys around them), but also the personal effect on their wellbeing.

@SoMuchLego You say students are unreasonable to think 'why shouldn't I be uncomfortable', how is that unreasonable. They're already in lessons all day, have lots of homework and tests, more than ever, and more kids than ever have issues (complicated families and mental health and so much more), why should they be uncomfortable? Any urologist will tell you it's bad for anyone to have to repeatdly hold their bladder, even if they can and aren't near peeing themselves, it's still bad. What life lesson are they learning from the discomfort. Yes there are times you can't go to the toilet in life, but few and far between (expect teaching, we know). Like I mentioned before, its funny how because teachers can't go, the argument suddenly holds weight that students shouldn't have to also. But for basic jewelry, or painted nails, the argument that teachers can so why can't students, is deemed as stupid.

@Endlesswandering 'Maybe toilets with a one in one out door policy (students scan their student card to get in?'
I actually think (if schools had more money) this would be a great idea, using smart card and tech. But that will have to wait till schools have so much money they don't know what to do with all of it, which is definitely not anytime soon with how stretched school budgets are.

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No coach can stop every 10 minutes at all. If they stop once then all go and then get on usually after about 2 hours. Proving that kids can in fact hold it when they want to and can go before when they know they cannot go for a while. Also on a flight no you cannot always go if the seat belt sign is on the you must stay seated. Not rocket science. I am proving to you that kids can go to the toilet ahead of time when it matters. Those that demand instant access must also say no to their child going on a trip. Doesn't matter that it isnt every day. If a child needs instant access then the trip is not for them. Odd you admit they can do it when it matters and never can do it when it doesnt. Simple stop the trips. Weird you say they should be expected to hold it when it matters. Isnt that cruelty and against their human rights?! So ban trips.

TheLivelyViper · 04/09/2025 11:36

VexedofVirginiaWater · 04/09/2025 10:02

And it still wouldn't solve the problem of the constant disruption of lessons by children who don't need the toilet but just fancy a bit of a break - even if they don't intend misbehaving or vandalising anything. And ime it would be constant.

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You cannot let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Many teachers and schools say that toliet access can only happen at break and lunch because it has to be supervised to stop vandalism, or bullying or the safeguarding causes. So it's clearly just finding reasons to prevent toliet use at this point. A kid doing that will miss 5 minutes, max 10, there are much bigger issues going on in schools and kids' lives. Since so many schools now log it, you'll be able to see if it's getting to point where either they have something else going on, maybe a developing medical issue, safeguarding perhaps or just boredom, then conversations can be had. And even if it's the same few people at the toliets and they log it instead of teachers they'll catch up if it's the same kid constantly.

Also even if you have a system where someone has to go to the office then to the toliet, they may still have a bored long walk around school. They're probably more likely to take the longest trip to the office and on the way back (if they have to go back to return the key). That probably takes longer than the time in toliet itself. Kids who ask to go just because they want to walk around ec would probably love that system, because they could spend ages and say oh the office lady took a while to give it to me etc and the teacher wouldn't be able to know if that was true or not. They'd probably take a route to try and see their friends and wave or whatever as well.

@KindLemur I know how fights and attacks are organised. What I mean for that specific scenario was how did they all manage to get out at once and know that the girl was also going to the toliet. We're they all in the same class (or quite a few of them)? In that case, as it normally is, it should only be 1 let out at a time. If she left the class to go to the toliet, nobody else should have been able to go, until she got back. If they were all in different classroom, and they messaged each other when she went in, it's still the same issue as likely someone from her class also went, so why were they allowed? Plus, that reaction to phone use is on the teacher, a kid is repeatedly always having a good emotional reason and you don't suspect anything? Most schools and teachers I know will take it immediately and they can check at the end of lesson or during break etc if its true or not. Plus your mum messaging isn't a good enough reason (unless specific issues already known about). Also if a kid was just on their phone, I think thats a red flag to not let them go the toliet when they ask pretty soon after (unless medicial reasons). Or call another member of staff as you have suspicious and they were on their phone already, so can get in trouble just for that. Also even if you do that, yes great you prevented it happening in the toliet, it will happen at the park, or the school corridor or playground or whatever. It doesn't stop the issue just stops it happening in that place.

hypnovic · 04/09/2025 11:38

Bringmeahigherlove · 02/09/2025 22:19

So what do you want teachers to do when there are 2,000 students in the building? Just let everyone go when they want?

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Not let them piss themselves!

Hercisback1 · 04/09/2025 11:42

TheLivelyViper · 04/09/2025 11:36

You cannot let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Many teachers and schools say that toliet access can only happen at break and lunch because it has to be supervised to stop vandalism, or bullying or the safeguarding causes. So it's clearly just finding reasons to prevent toliet use at this point. A kid doing that will miss 5 minutes, max 10, there are much bigger issues going on in schools and kids' lives. Since so many schools now log it, you'll be able to see if it's getting to point where either they have something else going on, maybe a developing medical issue, safeguarding perhaps or just boredom, then conversations can be had. And even if it's the same few people at the toliets and they log it instead of teachers they'll catch up if it's the same kid constantly.

Also even if you have a system where someone has to go to the office then to the toliet, they may still have a bored long walk around school. They're probably more likely to take the longest trip to the office and on the way back (if they have to go back to return the key). That probably takes longer than the time in toliet itself. Kids who ask to go just because they want to walk around ec would probably love that system, because they could spend ages and say oh the office lady took a while to give it to me etc and the teacher wouldn't be able to know if that was true or not. They'd probably take a route to try and see their friends and wave or whatever as well.

@KindLemur I know how fights and attacks are organised. What I mean for that specific scenario was how did they all manage to get out at once and know that the girl was also going to the toliet. We're they all in the same class (or quite a few of them)? In that case, as it normally is, it should only be 1 let out at a time. If she left the class to go to the toliet, nobody else should have been able to go, until she got back. If they were all in different classroom, and they messaged each other when she went in, it's still the same issue as likely someone from her class also went, so why were they allowed? Plus, that reaction to phone use is on the teacher, a kid is repeatedly always having a good emotional reason and you don't suspect anything? Most schools and teachers I know will take it immediately and they can check at the end of lesson or during break etc if its true or not. Plus your mum messaging isn't a good enough reason (unless specific issues already known about). Also if a kid was just on their phone, I think thats a red flag to not let them go the toliet when they ask pretty soon after (unless medicial reasons). Or call another member of staff as you have suspicious and they were on their phone already, so can get in trouble just for that. Also even if you do that, yes great you prevented it happening in the toliet, it will happen at the park, or the school corridor or playground or whatever. It doesn't stop the issue just stops it happening in that place.

Edited
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One let out of each classroom would mean 60 children walking around a secondary school, plenty for a fight.

VexedofVirginiaWater · 04/09/2025 12:02

I find it hard to describe the disruption that can be caused by several otherwise relatively well-behaved kids going out of class to the toilet. I think you might have to experience it - and not just as a one-off - to understand.

You start your lesson explaining what's going to happen, Jenny comes in because she has been to the toilet en route (very reasonable you'd think), so you have to start again. Then because Jenny has mentioned the toilet, it puts it in the heads of a couple of others. One goes out, then the other, they have missed another piece, or else it means they have not completed a task which they need to carry on.

Multiply this by - well a few - and it's not just the toilet-goers who are missing five minutes, but the whole class is losing learning time, unless I can devise a lesson where they are all working independently for the whole time which is maybe possible with some subjects, I don't know, but I suspect it won't be possible every lesson. And these are reasonable well-behaved children who are just exercising their human right to go to the toilet. Then of course there will always be the chancers who don't really need it and are in fact in search of trouble. You know they are chancers, but obviously you can't say anything - you have let Jenny and the others go you see and it is their human right and parents would make a complaint. So you let them go too.

I'm retired now, and over a longish career, I dread to think how much teaching and learning time was wasted by toilet going (and not mine!)

TheLivelyViper · 04/09/2025 12:06

JumpingAnt · 04/09/2025 10:14

It depends on the job though. The teachers who are saying it often can’t go when they want. I work in medical/dental and I can’t just get up and go half way through treating a patient. A surgeon couldn’t just down tools half way through a heart transplant to have a wee. There are actually a lot of jobs where you can’t just get up and do what you want when you want. I actually got moaned at by a patient the other day because I stopped treatment to turn away and sneeze. And I can’t tell you how hard it is to ignore an itch when you’re half way through a treatment and you can’t easily start taking gloves off to scratch it. I also once bled through my trousers during a miscarriage when I was treating a patient. One of those things unfortunately. I had to wait until they left to clean up. Then I ran late because I had to get changed etc. And then the next patient complained because I was running late.

Im not saying no children should be allowed to go to the toilet obviously. Just that it’s not the case that as adults you can just wander about doing what you want all the time. Emergencies yes. But honestly waiting half an hour to use the loo shouldn’t be a huge deal in normal circumstances. What would they do if they were on a bus or tube with no toilets etc? Sometimes you just need to wait. (Again I’m not talking about emergencies).

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All trains (new or old) have toliets as do some of the newer buses. Plus even if they didn't that doesn't mean it's a good thing and shouldn't be changed. Surgeons can leave to go to the toliet, in some cases, and normally for longer surgeries, they'll take a break and switch over or even just a reg or something stay in and hold things over for a few minutes. Obviously not if someone's deteriorating or something key needs to be done. The workplace is also changing as well, not sure when that happened to you, but more policies making it easier for pregnant doctors and mothers as well. For example a hospital I knew now let ENT trainees to leave during the day for pick-up etc, sometimes they'd leave surgery and someone would come and swap (needed quite good rota planning but still).

Again surgery is a very different job, so it shouldn't be equated to school for students necessarily. I know you're not saying this but to the wider point of toliet restriction etc. Yes there are jobs that can't always go immediately. But a taxi driver can spot when they need to go and likely stop somewhere before they pick up a passenger or they'll do it straight after they drop them. If it's actually a very long journey, I don't think many people would mind if they asked to stop and quickly go

You can go on a plane other than take off and landing. I've always been able to go on a plane as has everyone I know @Fetaface. Also like I said a coach journey is a very occasional thing, and normally all kids can go and do before. I wasn't saying to stop every 10 minutes, I was just saying (rightly or wrongly), there were some time on a coach where whilst moving someone did use the toliet, only if they felt the couldn't hold it for much longer - but as you said that shouldn't be best practice, but also doesn't really apply to many other situations. A kid may be able to hold it once in a while but doing it regularly as any urologist will tell you, can cause UTIs and isn’t good for anyone if you do it regularly, not on a one-off occasional trip. So either kids will be in that situation or they'll reduce how much they drink and in some cases some children are getting so anxious over this, they aren't having any water at all, which is ridiculous.

Also funny you haven't addressed any of the other points which I brought up, and that are more important and regular than toliet use on a coach. I have never in any of posts mentioned human rights, I said suffering once in relation to the things I was talking about with periods, absences and anxiety and embarrassment and fear. I also mentioned advice and some of the research from other organisations, a few bowel and bladder organisations, one for Plan UK and the rest was research. On a trip if a kid was desperate and couldn't hold it, I think most teachers would stop the coach, most are not going to kick up that much of a fuss around it or let themselves get that bothered over it. A few times on trips I went to there was sometimes someone who needed to really go, and we stopped, it wasn't that big of a deal.

TheLivelyViper · 04/09/2025 12:14

Hercisback1 · 04/09/2025 11:42

One let out of each classroom would mean 60 children walking around a secondary school, plenty for a fight.

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On reference to the fight/jumping, if that did happen, students would have had to communicate with each other in the moment. That's why it's different to knowing when the person gets x bus, so we'll find them and attack them there. Or we have P.E together or something like that. In a class, they're counting or betting on her getting up and asking to go, so it was either a plan of whenever we can or opportunistic and random. In either case, they would have needed to message each other that she's gone, you need to ask. As I said a kid, on their phone, who then asks to go the toliet (even within the next 10 minites) shouldn't be allowed to go, and if you think you may get a complaint etc from a parent, I'd be calling another member of staff on duty, and explaining your suspicions as well as handing in their phone as they were on it. I would properly check after or alert HOY etc as to whether they were messaging for a serious issue (doesn't make it okay and phone should still be taken away in the moment, but schools don't know everything that's going on for a student and could get it wrong). Likely that if this happened in a few other classrooms and the phone behaviour was dealt with as above, then I think whoever was on duty may be noting a pattern with the group of students and start further investigation. That is an issue with phones and also situational judgement, is my point related to how that girl got attacked.

The only way this wouldn't work is if they all someone had some sense she went to the toliet, and all went at the same time from different places in the school. That I can't help with but highly doubt would happen.

I don't know any schools that even have enough space for 60 students. That's why in my other posts I mentioned that more toliets (for the future and with more funding) need to built and need to be more central to each block etc, depending on the school layout. I also am saying that the policy would be within a class, one person let out at once but only that the toliets would all be individual rooms completely, and the locks (similar with radar keys) don't open when someone is in there. This was my idealistic solution with more money etc, and there would be more individual toliets for each corridor or area, depending on each school layout. So they wouldn't all be going to the same toliet, even now I don't think all 60 (unless planning a protest or massive riot), would go to the same toliet even if it wasn't the system I said and it happened with what most schools have right now.

JumpingAnt · 04/09/2025 12:32

The workplace is also changing as well, not sure when that happened to you, but more policies making it easier for pregnant doctors and mothers as well. For example a hospital I knew now let ENT trainees to leave during the day for pick-up etc, sometimes they'd leave surgery and someone would come and swap (needed quite good rota planning but still).

I am a self employed hygienist so workplace policies make zero difference to me. If I don’t work I don’t get paid. So if I took time off for my miscarriage I would lose money. If I blocked out gaps in my diary for loo breaks I’d lose money. (And would likely get fired as they obviously would want a clinician who brings money in).

Also planning for a scheduled swap over during a long surgery is different from a surgeon deciding he needs a wee half way through a surgery. He would go to the loo before he started. And that was my point. If you go to the loo before you start something, whether it’s a lesson at school or a heart surgery, then you shouldn’t need to go again half an hour later. And I do know a surgeon is different to other jobs. But the person I was responding to said the teacher said you can’t always go to the loo when you want at work. And she said you can! I was just pointing out that there are plenty of jobs where actually you can’t. I didn’t say all of them. But it is true that some of these children will grow up and want to do a job where you can’t access a loo totally on demand.

And no tube trains in London have toilets (and I specifically said tube not train). Or any of the buses I’ve been on recently. And I’ve been stuck for an hour on a tube in a tunnel in the past.

ByCyanMoose · 04/09/2025 12:44

JumpingAnt · 04/09/2025 12:32

The workplace is also changing as well, not sure when that happened to you, but more policies making it easier for pregnant doctors and mothers as well. For example a hospital I knew now let ENT trainees to leave during the day for pick-up etc, sometimes they'd leave surgery and someone would come and swap (needed quite good rota planning but still).

I am a self employed hygienist so workplace policies make zero difference to me. If I don’t work I don’t get paid. So if I took time off for my miscarriage I would lose money. If I blocked out gaps in my diary for loo breaks I’d lose money. (And would likely get fired as they obviously would want a clinician who brings money in).

Also planning for a scheduled swap over during a long surgery is different from a surgeon deciding he needs a wee half way through a surgery. He would go to the loo before he started. And that was my point. If you go to the loo before you start something, whether it’s a lesson at school or a heart surgery, then you shouldn’t need to go again half an hour later. And I do know a surgeon is different to other jobs. But the person I was responding to said the teacher said you can’t always go to the loo when you want at work. And she said you can! I was just pointing out that there are plenty of jobs where actually you can’t. I didn’t say all of them. But it is true that some of these children will grow up and want to do a job where you can’t access a loo totally on demand.

And no tube trains in London have toilets (and I specifically said tube not train). Or any of the buses I’ve been on recently. And I’ve been stuck for an hour on a tube in a tunnel in the past.

And we are now into the territory of certifiable weirdos invoking outlandish scenarios and rare events to justify keeping children from the toilet on an everyday basis. Which is ultimately what every thread on toilet- related topics turns into.

JumpingAnt · 04/09/2025 12:50

ByCyanMoose · 04/09/2025 12:44

And we are now into the territory of certifiable weirdos invoking outlandish scenarios and rare events to justify keeping children from the toilet on an everyday basis. Which is ultimately what every thread on toilet- related topics turns into.

Show quote history

I have to wait to go to the loo every single day I’m at work and treating patients. Every single person at my work place needs to wait until an appropriate time to use the loo. Sometimes this involves waiting an hour or so. This is neither rare or outlandish.

TheLivelyViper · 04/09/2025 14:48

@VexedofVirginiaWater, I get what you’re saying, even without vandalism or bullying well behaved kids can still affect the lesson when they go out. I don’t have perfect solutions, but these are my initial thoughts which would need editing in practice.

If it bothers your lessons that much, then make them catch up. Say if it isn’t done by next lesson they'll be treated as not doing homework and have those consequences. This would invovle havinf resources available on some platform (pretty standard now), and they can ask their friends kr classmates or find you at lunch if they really don't understand. When I was in school we were expected to catch up and weren’t punished if we didn’t, but we were made 'responsible' for it showing up later in mocks or tests and not understanding or doing well because we didn't catch up. I’m not saying that’s what you should do, parents might not like it and may complain, but it worked in GCSE years.

Something I didn’t like at first but think could work is someone saying their school sends a message home when they leave, with the expectation they catch up before the next lesson. If they miss a slide or notes, it becomes homework with the same consequences - if they don't get it done in the lesson. You could remind them before they go, are you sure you want to miss x, could you not wait 5 minutes as its very important for the whole lesson. Five minutes shouldn’t be that much work to catch up on.

I’d say don’t always say yes straight away unless it’s urgent like periods, medical reasons or they really can’t wait. I'm against 100% bans bar medical passes, or similar things. Most teachers already say wait when something important is being explained for 5 minutes, then go. In my secondary school, (mainly Y10/11), my teachers would say no to kids they suspected of chancing it, especially if they had a pattern of wandering for half an hour or disrupting lessons. They’d tell them they had to wait until someone could escort them (took 2-4 mins max), unless it was a girl on her period or a medical condition. It wasn’t everyone, just repeat offenders of issues like walking around or vaping in toliets. After a while they gave up complaining that but x can go (teachers would say they come back and haven't misbehaved in the toliets etc), and when they behaved better over time (report etc) they would be allowed to go by themselves again. Parents didn’t complain too much and SLT were fair (with other things in general) and explained that they still let them go, just with escorts, and stuck with the policy.

The bigger issue is going between lessons, which would need longer term changes like more toilets nearby (when schools are being built and obviously more funding as well) and longer gaps between lessons. It always seemed like you’d finish in English and then have to get to Geography on the opposite side of the school, and a toilet stop made you late. In my 6th form, lessons started and ended at ten past (for secondary), which wasn’t helpful. Five minutes isn’t usually enough, especially if one class ends late. My old secondary eventually, had different teachers do different routes around the school and time them and made it seven minutes which was much better. We were also allowed to leave a minute or two early while everyone else packed up if we wanted to get to the toilet quickly.

@JumpingAnt Sorry my earlier thoughts wouldn’t apply to you then, I assumed you were a surgeon or scrub nurse, for some reason. I’m also sorry you had to go through bleeding during a miscarriage and were expected to just deal with it. If you’re self-employed, is it that you rent a room and are fully responsible for yourself and your earnings? You’re right, it isn’t only teaching, but I think it isn't allowed/possible in around the same amount of jobs where it is possible. Surgeons only hold it in for the long operations where they plan swaps, and I’ve been on a couple buses that had toilets, which I think we’ll see more of over time (when we finally invest in transport). Getting stuck on the tube for an hour and a half hopefully isn’t common, and usually journeys are shorter or with quick changes - so you can quickly use it in the station, and then grab the next tube. I think Moose was talking about the being stuck on the tube as rare.

What do you do out of interest, nurse or doctor? I’d say unless you’re in stroke team, ED, or in the middle of a life or death case like heart attack or doing a procedure, most staff can go. They might rush, but they can, if it was getting urgent. If people are reprimanded or can’t go at all, that feels like NHS culture of overworking and never taking breaks, not always staff choice but shortages forcing it. Even then, they'll be jobs it isn't possible for, but I’d guess it’s because the work is life or death or safety related of the patients. That’s not the same as students missing five minutes of a lesson. So if you can go when it’s urgent, even if not ideal timing, that’s the same principle I’d use for students. If you really couldn’t go unless in an emergency, then that’s still a very different level of responsibility compared to kids in lessons. I don’t think letting them go during school would stop them adapting later when the reasons in work are so different and often much more serious.

Fetaface · 04/09/2025 15:08

You can go on a plane other than take off and landing. I've always been able to go on a plane as has everyone I know . Also like I said a coach journey is a very occasional thing, and normally all kids can go and do before. I wasn't saying to stop every 10 minutes, I was just saying (rightly or wrongly), there were some time on a coach where whilst moving someone did use the toliet, only if they felt the couldn't hold it for much longer - but as you said that shouldn't be best practice, but also doesn't really apply to many other situations. A kid may be able to hold it once in a while but doing it regularly as any urologist will tell you, can cause UTIs and isn’t good for anyone if you do it regularly, not on a one-off occasional trip. So either kids will be in that situation or they'll reduce how much they drink and in some cases some children are getting so anxious over this, they aren't having any water at all, which is ridiculous.
Also funny you haven't addressed any of the other points which I brought up, and that are more important and regular than toliet use on a coach. I have never in any of posts mentioned human rights, I said suffering once in relation to the things I was talking about with periods, absences and anxiety and embarrassment and fear. I also mentioned advice and some of the research from other organisations, a few bowel and bladder organisations, one for Plan UK and the rest was research. On a trip if a kid was desperate and couldn't hold it, I think most teachers would stop the coach, most are not going to kick up that much of a fuss around it or let themselves get that bothered over it. A few times on trips I went to there was sometimes someone who needed to really go, and we stopped, it wasn't that big of a deal.

You cannot always go on a plane - if the seatbelt sign is on then you sit down and deal with it. Rules are rules. Yes some do allow kids to go on coaches but those are parents letting their own kids take their belts off and go. In schools there is no wiggle room at all. Children have belts on the whole journey - no ifs or buts. When you have seen a child fly out of a coach along a motorway and die (and being the only one without a belt on when the bus crashed) when that happened then you would not do it again. Not that is isn't best practice it is not allowed full stop. What are the other things you 'brought up' that are funny. Yes a coach would stop but you know what kids do when they see someone getting to do something that is a novelty - they all want to do it too! That would mean allowing many to go at the same time many of whom will not want to go. You have clearly never seen kids who think the novelty of going for a piss on a coach as being 'a thing' meaning many will just go when the coach is stopped for shits and giggles. Meaning a stop can last at least an hour in some situations. How come all the others who cannot hold their piss longer than 5 seconds suddenly can on a coach?

Periods on a coach - same thing happens as for all on a coach - including adults. They can go to the toilet before and ask the coach to stop but stopping every ten minutes is really not adequate for a school trip as that is how often kids ask in the classroom so replicate that into a coach and a 2 hour journey will take about 5!

It is a wonder anyone ever leaves the house these days - how do such kids even go on walks or into town without having their emotional support
toilet being carried with them at all times.

And no, not funny about me missing things off - when I post on my phone I then cannot read your comment. I cannot remember it all in my head. By all means post those 'funny' things again for me to respond to. Be funny that you get a response when you are implying that I am not doing it on purpose.

noblegiraffe · 04/09/2025 15:17

I think I would actually love for those parents who insist that it is a human right for a kid to be allowed to go to the toilet whenever they ask to do toilet duty.

How long would it be before they realised that actually that isn’t workable?

How long would it be until a bunch of Y11s all trooped into the same cubicle as they watched and completely ignored any requests to come out?

TheLivelyViper · 04/09/2025 15:50

Fetaface · 04/09/2025 15:08

You can go on a plane other than take off and landing. I've always been able to go on a plane as has everyone I know . Also like I said a coach journey is a very occasional thing, and normally all kids can go and do before. I wasn't saying to stop every 10 minutes, I was just saying (rightly or wrongly), there were some time on a coach where whilst moving someone did use the toliet, only if they felt the couldn't hold it for much longer - but as you said that shouldn't be best practice, but also doesn't really apply to many other situations. A kid may be able to hold it once in a while but doing it regularly as any urologist will tell you, can cause UTIs and isn’t good for anyone if you do it regularly, not on a one-off occasional trip. So either kids will be in that situation or they'll reduce how much they drink and in some cases some children are getting so anxious over this, they aren't having any water at all, which is ridiculous.
Also funny you haven't addressed any of the other points which I brought up, and that are more important and regular than toliet use on a coach. I have never in any of posts mentioned human rights, I said suffering once in relation to the things I was talking about with periods, absences and anxiety and embarrassment and fear. I also mentioned advice and some of the research from other organisations, a few bowel and bladder organisations, one for Plan UK and the rest was research. On a trip if a kid was desperate and couldn't hold it, I think most teachers would stop the coach, most are not going to kick up that much of a fuss around it or let themselves get that bothered over it. A few times on trips I went to there was sometimes someone who needed to really go, and we stopped, it wasn't that big of a deal.

You cannot always go on a plane - if the seatbelt sign is on then you sit down and deal with it. Rules are rules. Yes some do allow kids to go on coaches but those are parents letting their own kids take their belts off and go. In schools there is no wiggle room at all. Children have belts on the whole journey - no ifs or buts. When you have seen a child fly out of a coach along a motorway and die (and being the only one without a belt on when the bus crashed) when that happened then you would not do it again. Not that is isn't best practice it is not allowed full stop. What are the other things you 'brought up' that are funny. Yes a coach would stop but you know what kids do when they see someone getting to do something that is a novelty - they all want to do it too! That would mean allowing many to go at the same time many of whom will not want to go. You have clearly never seen kids who think the novelty of going for a piss on a coach as being 'a thing' meaning many will just go when the coach is stopped for shits and giggles. Meaning a stop can last at least an hour in some situations. How come all the others who cannot hold their piss longer than 5 seconds suddenly can on a coach?

Periods on a coach - same thing happens as for all on a coach - including adults. They can go to the toilet before and ask the coach to stop but stopping every ten minutes is really not adequate for a school trip as that is how often kids ask in the classroom so replicate that into a coach and a 2 hour journey will take about 5!

It is a wonder anyone ever leaves the house these days - how do such kids even go on walks or into town without having their emotional support
toilet being carried with them at all times.

And no, not funny about me missing things off - when I post on my phone I then cannot read your comment. I cannot remember it all in my head. By all means post those 'funny' things again for me to respond to. Be funny that you get a response when you are implying that I am not doing it on purpose.

Edited

I don't know who you fly with but people I know and myself have always been able to during the flight. Just not on landing and take off, (which is only a few minutes)or moderate/increasing turbulence. Otherwise we'd take it off and walk to the back, then come back and put seatbelt back on. I've always thought this was standard and always been able to. Whether this isn't meant to happen I have no clue, but never been stopped or told I can't and haven't seen anyone else on the plane who did so, get similar instructions.

My talk about periods was about the impact on attendance (one of the main reasons for absence, girls are reporting and other resources are showing) and some of the further issues it's causing. The issues around some now automatically taking their whole period off (not counting those with more severe symptoms btw, many say its due to fear over not being able to go to the toliet or having to announce that to their teacher/the whole class - links back to issues around boys bullying them with misogynistic jokes many centered around periods), the issues around leaking through at school and the issues with girls doing sports around (haven't touched on this lots but it is another key part of research findings). Less girls doing P.E and not doing it at all on their period (partly due to pain but also things like cultural reasons of shame, but even those who don't have those cultural backgrounds being scared of leaking due to badly designed kits, not made for girls, feeling embarrassed by it and the like). It wasn't in the post you referenced but a couple of posts on a 2 or 3 pages back I think, where I linked the studies and research and then my wider points on periods were the very first post I did on the 1st page.

Periods do still occur on a bus yes, and that is a unique scenario, which is very far and few between. And on the bus some girls will still leak through, and will need to go. It doesn't go away on the bus, so yes they should wait if they feel like they can, but if not I'd rather stop. If rather teach our girls that the attitude of girls are constantly over dramatic about pain or discomfort on their period isn't okay. The attitude that they shouldn't be given empathy and more support isn't okay. The attitude that they should such up heavy bleeding and bleeding through because a bunch of kids will now want to go as well and that's annoying or will waste time - so they then can't go, if they really need to, isn't okay.

I have bled through on a coach (not with school) but on the one or 2 times I was on my period and we had a trip, I was so petrified over it happening again. Bear in mind, I used 2 different products at once as well. I often bleed through and have since my periods started 7 layers (as in through to my mattress). I didn't say anything for years because I thought it was normal, and everyone looked at periods as disgusting or weird so I didn't want them to think that of me. Then even when I did start getting investigations it took ages for a diagnosis, and it was trial and error with meds etc, and they took time to work (as I mentioned in my 1st post, gyne issues only just start to appear during teens and unlike other medical issues are more likely to have have had medical intervention first, or not need it, but just take a while to settle). I was lucky that by Y11, I had a great deputy head/english teacher who sorted it all out for me, even without medical evidence and made it more manageable at school through lots of different systems and spread period passes for every year and in my new 6th form, they gave me all the accommodations I could possibly need.

That's why more schools than ever do have period passes and cards, it's becoming much more common, as it should be. Also periods are every 4 weeks, some girls will be on their period, but it's not exactly all of them. We don't make policy about the day to day, regular processes based on occasional situations which aren't ideal nor should they be the norm. Holding once or a few times rarely and spread apart, is very different from having to do that regularly, which causes issues like UTIs and even if not that bladder issues.

I have seen the novelty of someone going so now somebody else wants to. I've also seen kids leak through, blood everywhere and I've done that myself, I've seen kids get sicker and way worse, as they weren't allowed to go. So we don't stop it because x may need the toliet and then y might. As long as x genuinely needs the toliet.

I'd rather wait an extra 10-15 minutes than not let a kid who needs to go, go to the toliet and I think lots of staff would as well. Unless all the buses have to then stop and everyone goes, I don't see how it adds on extra hour, whenever I've done that it was at the longest, around 10-15 people, mainly girls and took 20 minutes. We'd go in one at a time, and often that did take the novelty of the fun girl time in a toliet, and some wouldn't go. I also never said that children should have to go immediately in a lesson (other than medical issues and periods or an emergency), kids can wait for 5 minutes if there's a really important bit or if after that they'll pack up, so can go then. I am against the 100% bans (other than medical evidence/pass), and I'm against overly restricted toliet use. I don't want any kid to get hurt, but I also don't want them to wet themselves or bleed through.

My responses weren't funny, what I was saying is that, you've mainly focused on this bus example as justification for the polices, which are applied in a different environment. The issues I referenced as the maim problems with toliet policies are real and as you'll find contained reference of the research and work from lots of important bodies on the issue.
When I would say tha that your bus situation, whilst true, is an occasional event, and lasts for not that long at a time (depending on the trip). So I'm saying that your example is the least important issue of all the issues I and many other PP have talked about which result of these toliet policies being too arbitrary.

Even with supervision, some of the valid problems mentioned by others, still happen. They still may beat someone up or, vape etc, evem when teachers are there and teachers try to stop them. Thats why rather than toliet policies which are often band aids to the issue and just push them to different areas, rather than working on them in constructive ways. I often need the toliet when I'm out. I've found across lots of areas there's always plenty of toliets available which aren't that far and in an emergency I have gone into places which only have staff toliets but they let me use it. Otherwise I find lots of public toliets available or in shops or something. So that's how I cope.

ByCyanMoose · 04/09/2025 15:55

TheLivelyViper · 04/09/2025 15:50

I don't know who you fly with but people I know and myself have always been able to during the flight. Just not on landing and take off, (which is only a few minutes)or moderate/increasing turbulence. Otherwise we'd take it off and walk to the back, then come back and put seatbelt back on. I've always thought this was standard and always been able to. Whether this isn't meant to happen I have no clue, but never been stopped or told I can't and haven't seen anyone else on the plane who did so, get similar instructions.

My talk about periods was about the impact on attendance (one of the main reasons for absence, girls are reporting and other resources are showing) and some of the further issues it's causing. The issues around some now automatically taking their whole period off (not counting those with more severe symptoms btw, many say its due to fear over not being able to go to the toliet or having to announce that to their teacher/the whole class - links back to issues around boys bullying them with misogynistic jokes many centered around periods), the issues around leaking through at school and the issues with girls doing sports around (haven't touched on this lots but it is another key part of research findings). Less girls doing P.E and not doing it at all on their period (partly due to pain but also things like cultural reasons of shame, but even those who don't have those cultural backgrounds being scared of leaking due to badly designed kits, not made for girls, feeling embarrassed by it and the like). It wasn't in the post you referenced but a couple of posts on a 2 or 3 pages back I think, where I linked the studies and research and then my wider points on periods were the very first post I did on the 1st page.

Periods do still occur on a bus yes, and that is a unique scenario, which is very far and few between. And on the bus some girls will still leak through, and will need to go. It doesn't go away on the bus, so yes they should wait if they feel like they can, but if not I'd rather stop. If rather teach our girls that the attitude of girls are constantly over dramatic about pain or discomfort on their period isn't okay. The attitude that they shouldn't be given empathy and more support isn't okay. The attitude that they should such up heavy bleeding and bleeding through because a bunch of kids will now want to go as well and that's annoying or will waste time - so they then can't go, if they really need to, isn't okay.

I have bled through on a coach (not with school) but on the one or 2 times I was on my period and we had a trip, I was so petrified over it happening again. Bear in mind, I used 2 different products at once as well. I often bleed through and have since my periods started 7 layers (as in through to my mattress). I didn't say anything for years because I thought it was normal, and everyone looked at periods as disgusting or weird so I didn't want them to think that of me. Then even when I did start getting investigations it took ages for a diagnosis, and it was trial and error with meds etc, and they took time to work (as I mentioned in my 1st post, gyne issues only just start to appear during teens and unlike other medical issues are more likely to have have had medical intervention first, or not need it, but just take a while to settle). I was lucky that by Y11, I had a great deputy head/english teacher who sorted it all out for me, even without medical evidence and made it more manageable at school through lots of different systems and spread period passes for every year and in my new 6th form, they gave me all the accommodations I could possibly need.

That's why more schools than ever do have period passes and cards, it's becoming much more common, as it should be. Also periods are every 4 weeks, some girls will be on their period, but it's not exactly all of them. We don't make policy about the day to day, regular processes based on occasional situations which aren't ideal nor should they be the norm. Holding once or a few times rarely and spread apart, is very different from having to do that regularly, which causes issues like UTIs and even if not that bladder issues.

I have seen the novelty of someone going so now somebody else wants to. I've also seen kids leak through, blood everywhere and I've done that myself, I've seen kids get sicker and way worse, as they weren't allowed to go. So we don't stop it because x may need the toliet and then y might. As long as x genuinely needs the toliet.

I'd rather wait an extra 10-15 minutes than not let a kid who needs to go, go to the toliet and I think lots of staff would as well. Unless all the buses have to then stop and everyone goes, I don't see how it adds on extra hour, whenever I've done that it was at the longest, around 10-15 people, mainly girls and took 20 minutes. We'd go in one at a time, and often that did take the novelty of the fun girl time in a toliet, and some wouldn't go. I also never said that children should have to go immediately in a lesson (other than medical issues and periods or an emergency), kids can wait for 5 minutes if there's a really important bit or if after that they'll pack up, so can go then. I am against the 100% bans (other than medical evidence/pass), and I'm against overly restricted toliet use. I don't want any kid to get hurt, but I also don't want them to wet themselves or bleed through.

My responses weren't funny, what I was saying is that, you've mainly focused on this bus example as justification for the polices, which are applied in a different environment. The issues I referenced as the maim problems with toliet policies are real and as you'll find contained reference of the research and work from lots of important bodies on the issue.
When I would say tha that your bus situation, whilst true, is an occasional event, and lasts for not that long at a time (depending on the trip). So I'm saying that your example is the least important issue of all the issues I and many other PP have talked about which result of these toliet policies being too arbitrary.

Even with supervision, some of the valid problems mentioned by others, still happen. They still may beat someone up or, vape etc, evem when teachers are there and teachers try to stop them. Thats why rather than toliet policies which are often band aids to the issue and just push them to different areas, rather than working on them in constructive ways. I often need the toliet when I'm out. I've found across lots of areas there's always plenty of toliets available which aren't that far and in an emergency I have gone into places which only have staff toliets but they let me use it. Otherwise I find lots of public toliets available or in shops or something. So that's how I cope.

Edited
Show quote history

At this point, I hope that fetaface has never been responsible for supervising children on a coach, because they have the most bizarre notions of how to go about it. If they ever were, I doubt they were entrusted with it a second time.

hufflepuffbutrequestinggriffindor · 04/09/2025 16:01

Superhansrantowindsor · 02/09/2025 17:14

I’ve taught for a very very long time. Toilets were never an issue. Occasionally a kid would put their hand up in a lesson and ask to go. You let them because it just didn’t happen that often. Then something happened about five years ago- round about the time lockdown ended and toilets became an absolute battleground situation. Kids asking all the time and stories on social media about kids being told no led to parents getting really annoyed about it and making a fuss -IF MY KID WANTS THE LOO THEM THEY ARE GOING! Kids saw toilets as a way of being able to ‘push back’. So then you had kids asking to go all the time. We now have a situation where so many kids asking to go to the loo in lesson it is ridiculous. Amongst those are kids who genuinely need to go.

Out school has a policy of ask and you can go. I guarantee at least 6 go each lesson - even if we have just had break and it’s pretty much the same kids who have no known medical reason to need to go as often as they do.
I really don’t know what the answer is. I don’t want to stop kids going to the loo ( even though I can’t) but equally I am frustrated at the amount of piss taking that goes on. Toilets aren’t supervised in lessons and lots clearly ask to go so they can vape or just skive.

I want to be absolutely clear that I think anyone should be allowed to go to the loo when they want. I also want people to acknowledge that it can be really disruptive to a lesson when loads ask to go every lesson.

I absolutely agree with you. What doesn’t help in my school is that the younger pupils always have 3 lessons after lunch so if you’re teaching them the last two periods there’s no chance of having an uninterrupted lesson. Most pupils are polite and only go when it’s the middle of task they’re doing themselves but it’s the ones that interrupt in the middle of me explaining something important or doing a listening task where they need to be silent that pees me off. Unfortunately they get it emphasised at home that they can do that. Also I used to work in retail when I was younger, we were strictly not allowed to go to the toilet while working and only on breaks.

Bringmeahigherlove · 04/09/2025 17:12

hypnovic · 04/09/2025 11:38

Not let them piss themselves!

Show quote history

Well I’ve been teaching for 11 years. I don’t let any child freely go to the toilet whenever they ask and I have not had one piss themselves yet. I use my professional judgement. I can totally understand why many schools are going to the zero tolerance approach though. Pop into one for one day and you will see why.

Fetaface · 04/09/2025 18:06

TheLivelyViper · 04/09/2025 15:50

I don't know who you fly with but people I know and myself have always been able to during the flight. Just not on landing and take off, (which is only a few minutes)or moderate/increasing turbulence. Otherwise we'd take it off and walk to the back, then come back and put seatbelt back on. I've always thought this was standard and always been able to. Whether this isn't meant to happen I have no clue, but never been stopped or told I can't and haven't seen anyone else on the plane who did so, get similar instructions.

My talk about periods was about the impact on attendance (one of the main reasons for absence, girls are reporting and other resources are showing) and some of the further issues it's causing. The issues around some now automatically taking their whole period off (not counting those with more severe symptoms btw, many say its due to fear over not being able to go to the toliet or having to announce that to their teacher/the whole class - links back to issues around boys bullying them with misogynistic jokes many centered around periods), the issues around leaking through at school and the issues with girls doing sports around (haven't touched on this lots but it is another key part of research findings). Less girls doing P.E and not doing it at all on their period (partly due to pain but also things like cultural reasons of shame, but even those who don't have those cultural backgrounds being scared of leaking due to badly designed kits, not made for girls, feeling embarrassed by it and the like). It wasn't in the post you referenced but a couple of posts on a 2 or 3 pages back I think, where I linked the studies and research and then my wider points on periods were the very first post I did on the 1st page.

Periods do still occur on a bus yes, and that is a unique scenario, which is very far and few between. And on the bus some girls will still leak through, and will need to go. It doesn't go away on the bus, so yes they should wait if they feel like they can, but if not I'd rather stop. If rather teach our girls that the attitude of girls are constantly over dramatic about pain or discomfort on their period isn't okay. The attitude that they shouldn't be given empathy and more support isn't okay. The attitude that they should such up heavy bleeding and bleeding through because a bunch of kids will now want to go as well and that's annoying or will waste time - so they then can't go, if they really need to, isn't okay.

I have bled through on a coach (not with school) but on the one or 2 times I was on my period and we had a trip, I was so petrified over it happening again. Bear in mind, I used 2 different products at once as well. I often bleed through and have since my periods started 7 layers (as in through to my mattress). I didn't say anything for years because I thought it was normal, and everyone looked at periods as disgusting or weird so I didn't want them to think that of me. Then even when I did start getting investigations it took ages for a diagnosis, and it was trial and error with meds etc, and they took time to work (as I mentioned in my 1st post, gyne issues only just start to appear during teens and unlike other medical issues are more likely to have have had medical intervention first, or not need it, but just take a while to settle). I was lucky that by Y11, I had a great deputy head/english teacher who sorted it all out for me, even without medical evidence and made it more manageable at school through lots of different systems and spread period passes for every year and in my new 6th form, they gave me all the accommodations I could possibly need.

That's why more schools than ever do have period passes and cards, it's becoming much more common, as it should be. Also periods are every 4 weeks, some girls will be on their period, but it's not exactly all of them. We don't make policy about the day to day, regular processes based on occasional situations which aren't ideal nor should they be the norm. Holding once or a few times rarely and spread apart, is very different from having to do that regularly, which causes issues like UTIs and even if not that bladder issues.

I have seen the novelty of someone going so now somebody else wants to. I've also seen kids leak through, blood everywhere and I've done that myself, I've seen kids get sicker and way worse, as they weren't allowed to go. So we don't stop it because x may need the toliet and then y might. As long as x genuinely needs the toliet.

I'd rather wait an extra 10-15 minutes than not let a kid who needs to go, go to the toliet and I think lots of staff would as well. Unless all the buses have to then stop and everyone goes, I don't see how it adds on extra hour, whenever I've done that it was at the longest, around 10-15 people, mainly girls and took 20 minutes. We'd go in one at a time, and often that did take the novelty of the fun girl time in a toliet, and some wouldn't go. I also never said that children should have to go immediately in a lesson (other than medical issues and periods or an emergency), kids can wait for 5 minutes if there's a really important bit or if after that they'll pack up, so can go then. I am against the 100% bans (other than medical evidence/pass), and I'm against overly restricted toliet use. I don't want any kid to get hurt, but I also don't want them to wet themselves or bleed through.

My responses weren't funny, what I was saying is that, you've mainly focused on this bus example as justification for the polices, which are applied in a different environment. The issues I referenced as the maim problems with toliet policies are real and as you'll find contained reference of the research and work from lots of important bodies on the issue.
When I would say tha that your bus situation, whilst true, is an occasional event, and lasts for not that long at a time (depending on the trip). So I'm saying that your example is the least important issue of all the issues I and many other PP have talked about which result of these toliet policies being too arbitrary.

Even with supervision, some of the valid problems mentioned by others, still happen. They still may beat someone up or, vape etc, evem when teachers are there and teachers try to stop them. Thats why rather than toliet policies which are often band aids to the issue and just push them to different areas, rather than working on them in constructive ways. I often need the toliet when I'm out. I've found across lots of areas there's always plenty of toliets available which aren't that far and in an emergency I have gone into places which only have staff toliets but they let me use it. Otherwise I find lots of public toliets available or in shops or something. So that's how I cope.

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Never been allowed to when I have flown before. How do you manage with take off and landing given you need a seatbelt on and cannot go to the toilet for that duration? I mean - instant access is needed all the time.

Periods do happen at any given time. Odd you mention girls but hey it is ok to ignore some, right? Period poverty impacts on many girls and that is the reason they do not go to school when on their period. When parents whip up a storm and make them anxious then that is on the parents. Kids can go to the bathroom when on their period. They can also go each hour so should they want to change before lessons they can do, most do not do that, that is not the teacher's fault. Is it? Their routine should be to change after every lesson. Basics.

Also no one is saying they should shut up heavy bleeding or not stop, you clearly lack basic reading skills as no one has said that at all. Implying I have is false and clearly lacks understanding.

Absolutely coaches will stop for a period. Odd that kids have anxiety over leaving class for a period but can announce to the whole coach, right? Lots of things that never happen. I have never seen one child ask to stop a coach for a period, yet. Only ever seen one coach stop for a wee - once. Seen many coaches unable to stop and the child unable to go - because it wasn't safe and that is just how it is. Demanding will not make it safe to stop. No matter what. So it is best to go beforehand. Oddly - almost all kids can manage it.

Periods are not every 4 weeks for many - that is what the average is meaning for others it is not. Holding a wee for 10 minutes absolutely doesn't cause massive bladder issues at all. If a child cannot hold a wee for 10 minutes then they need to see a doctor.

Also you are expecting coaches to be able to stop immediately. They cannot. They have to find somewhere safe to stop. Stopping on a hard shoulder is not appropriate because little Jane demands a wee now and cannot wait 10 minutes for the coach to find an appropriate place to pull over. Knowing the parents will threaten staff because the coach didn't immediately grind to a halt is shocking.

So one toilet on once coach and you cannot see how it can take an hour for kids to go? There are many kids on the coach and 1 toilet, basic maths. So yes absolutely coaches stop but they cannot stop every two minutes for kids who cannot be arsed to use the bathroom before they step onto the coach. That is ridiculous. 10 minutes a piss x 30 kids + 1 toilet = how much time? You said they have to pull over so cannot drive to the nearest services - it has to be immediate.

You are against toilet bans but are yet to support schools leaving kids unattended? Hypocrisy!

You said it was funny and I explained why I missed some of your message. Oh absolutely I know about why kids miss PE - it starts at 8 with their loss of self confidence. I know the exact reasons.

My bus issue is a daily thing for some kids - some catch the bus and oddly never need the toilet or a change despite it being an hours journey, weird eh? An hour in lesson and they all need a piss, an hour going home and no one demands the bus driver stops the bus route for a piss in a field as oddly they never need it! So yes travelling is a daily thing which all kids to do school. Going on a coach for 2 hours is not often but they all manage it. Weirdly enough.

It is mad that you arrange your 'going out' around toilets and never go where there isn't any like the beach or the countryside. What gets me is that most kids will not ask to go during the lessons and some kids ask every lesson. Not yet figured out when to do to the toilet.

I wonder if you are rallying for toilets on school buses? I mean, why not?