Teachers: do you find it hard? (high school toilets)

[Fillyfrog]

DD started high school yesterday. We had a transition support meeting before starting (possible asd) and SENCO offered a toilet pass due to lots of anxiety over needing a wee and not being able to go or find a toilet (this is long standing and not just due to new school)
Children are allowed to go at break and lunch and that's it, if they need it any other time it's tough.

Toilet pass wasn't sorted for today and DD begged to go in her last lesson. She said she was close to tears and the teacher still said no. Absolutely not.

I know they have rules for a reason. But, even if she didn't have anxiety and a possible toilet pass

What if someone gets a sudden stomach ache and needs to go to the toilet for a poo quite suddenly?
What if a girl comes on their period suddenly and needs to go and it can't wait until the end of the day? I can't imagine how heartless the teachers must feel to look at a child close to tears on their first day, desperate for the toilet and to just say no and that's it 🙈 it's hard to comprehend as an adult who is able to go to the toilet whenever they want to. It feels like a basic human right.

At my present school, I will let pupils go when they ask with a reminder that they need to go at break, lunch or on the way to lessons (they get a chance to go every 50 mins). I usually ask if they can wait. If they say no, I let them go. In my previous school, there were constant requests and it was really stressful. Pupils were vaping, bullying and even having sex in toilets. Staff were told off for letting them go. Many pupils would walk out anyway.
It is true that teachers can’t go often for up to four hours if you’re on break duty. I was reprimanded for leaving a class when 8 months pregnant-they were year 12.

If my kids need to go to the toilet they go plain and simple , as long as they are straight back to class in a timely manner if teachers have an issue they can call me . Going to the toilet is a basic human right

For those who complain that their child isn't being allowed to go to the toilet, how would you feel if you recieved a phone call to say that your child had been attacked and seriously injured while unsupervised in the toilets? Or that they'd self-harmed and had to be taken to hospital? I'd be you'd be the first to blame the school for leaving your child unsupervised.

This is why schools have policies about not letting pupils out of lessons. It's nothing to do with not wanting them to miss 5 minutes of biology, it's because stuff like the above happens when kids are left around the site by themselves. When I was a teacher, there were suicide attempts, a stabbing, very regular drug use etc.

For those who say you tell your child just walk out - by all means do that. If you've told your child to defy school policies, you won't be able to blame the school when something does happen to them.

I'll counter the above by saying that schools do have medical passes etc. so posters above saying I have chrons/bladder issues etc. would still be able to go when they want.

When they've flooded the toilets.

Or as others have said, used it as an excuse to dodge around the school.

Or gone off and graffitied somewhere.

Oh, yes. And the girl that went off and self harmed instead of going to the loo. And I was held responsible for her leaving the classroom, when in fact, she walked out.

As the teacher, you're held responsible (more or less) for these students, because you know, no toilet in lesson time.

And again, as others have said, teachers absolutely don't get to go to the loo when they need to. Not even if they suddenly become unwell. I've vommed in a bin just outside my classroom door, because I couldn't get someone to watch my class quickly enough while I went to the loo to be sick.

UK secondary school is extreme.

It’s a really difficult one. I can imagine teachers are driven demented by pests and time wasters asking to go at all times of the day, disrupting lessons and going off to cause trouble and skive/vape. So I do have sympathy for teachers.
But it’s difficult to have any kind of blanket rule of no toilet use during lessons because of course there will be specific health needs, SEN, girls on their periods, unpredictable sore tummies and people who genuinely need to go. It’s not healthy to hold in the toilet. And they won’t want to draw attention to people with periods or particular needs by saying yes to some and no to others.
Im sure there are also a tiny minority of teachers like the one you describe who are on a bit of a power trip.
Perhaps if there were single toilets available nearer the classrooms the kids wouldn’t have the attraction of going to the toilet block and would hopefully be away for less time.
A lot of it will come down to judgement and I’m guessing teachers will have an idea of who is genuine and who is taking the piss.
Personally when I was a teen at high school I avoided the toilets like the plague and could easily hold it the whole day. The toilets were smelly and disgusting and an absolute hive for bullying, Christ knows why anyone would want to spend any more time there than was utterly necessary.

But you are working and being paid to be in the classroom - the kids are not! And to be fair, if you actually had an emergency situation and needed to go to the loo immediately, then you must go.

I understand there needs to be rules, however I told my secondary aged child if they are completely desperate and the teacher says no, then just go.

But surely they could do all of those things and more during a break time visit to the loo? I would hope they are not supervised when in the cubicle!

As a hypnotherapist working mostly with school based anxiety/phobia/refusal this is in the top 4 triggers. It's horrible you don't need to ask to use the toilet even in prison it's awful and I makes me wildly angry actually. I can do weeks of work get a child back in school only for a teacher to do this and put as at square one. I understand there needs to be a solution but this isn't it. It's an infringement on a basic right.

It's astonishing how many kids can't wait 2 hours max between breaks, yet can go to a football match or spend hours wandering with their mates without suddenly needing a wee.

It's also interesting how many kids have toilet passes and rarely use them, compared to the ones who go every lesson.

I honestly don't think parents have a clue how disruptive it is. And it's so rarely the good kids who are desperate. The good kids tend to be the ones who use the toilets at break time, rather than making the choice not to. And as pp have said, it's also interesting hours toilet use often corresponds togetting your pen out and starting work.

It would actually be quite interesting to see how frequent toilet use during lessons correlates to gcse results. In a big school, that's a nice 10 minutes of a lesson you can skive for.

Unless you have a medical condition, by secondary school age children can use the facilities when they have a break, it’s a maximum of 2 - 2.5 hours or so between times they can use them. Those of us who work in shops etc go on our break not whenever we want, it’s no different. Obviously if there’s a medical reason that’s different but by 11 most dc have good control

I was the child who did pee themselves. Teacher in y3 refused to let me leave even when I said if you don;t let me go I will have to pee myself, and she said go on then…. So I did.

Remarkably I had a lot of kudos and compassion from the kids in the class… and the teacher was reprimanded. Not sure that would happen now.

So what do you want teachers to do when there are 2,000 students in the building? Just let everyone go when they want?

If my kid was attacked in the toilets at any time of day, it wouldn’t be my kid’s fault, would it? So I would say that, and sort out your bullies. Don’t victim blame. Don’t treat kids as one homogenous group - maybe if schools focussed on individuals (bullies, kids who need to loo etc) and their needs, including the need for independence then there would be fewer issues. If you can’t even trust that the environment you’re providing is safe for a child to go to the loo by themselves, there are some massive problems.

And how do upwards of 1000 kids in secondary all manage to go to the toilet in the 15 min break or 30 min lunch break? Its just not possible with the amount of toilets schools tend to have.

It is causing a massive amount of school refusal and eating and drinking issues for a hell of a lot of children.

Good job you’re an ex teacher. Ridiculous.

My DD started high school a couple weeks ago and only once been told no to the toilet during class. She does go break and lunch however the queue for lunch are shocking it’s like a compromise toilet or lunch lol! I’ll be totally honest my daughter does use the toilet ALOT at home everyone picks up she always needs a pee. She also has IBS but it doesn’t have an option to add this onto her medical records for school. It isn’t too much of an issues but if she has a flare up then it’s game over. She went to the loo last week and there were S4’s in there fighting over the last blue raspberry vape she said. She just washed her hands and left them to it. I would be super super annoyed though if she was really needing and was refused. I know kids take the piss and arse around and if I found out my DD was one I’d deal with it but I know she’s not she hates being in trouble or anything and is a rule follower. X

You say adults can go whenever they want to, but believe me teachers can’t 😂. I once chugged 1.2 litres then taught a double lesson - I’ve never come so close to peeing my pants as an adult in my life!

The tricky thing about toilet breaks and teenagers is that they can easily be gone for 15 or 20 minutes of a 50 minute lesson. They’ve then missed too much to easily pick up where we left off. Also I know of a couple of cases just in one school in the last academic year where students have gone to the toilet to self harm and two went to end their lives. So when we won’t let them go to the toilet, there really are good reasons. We’re keeping them safe and we’re keeping them learning.

Despite this, of course there are times when I let them go, especially if someone tells me they have their period. But the whole time they’re gone I’m watching the clock because after ten mins I need to get another adult to check on them. This pulls that adult from whatever they’re doing. I simply couldn’t let all 32 of them wander off to the toilet when they fancy it and run a good lesson, it’s just not feasible.

Lastly, part of school is learning skills for adulthood where you actually do have to think about your fluid intake and when you can go. There are so many examples of jobs where you can’t abruptly leave to pee and lots of examples outside of work as well. It takes very little thought, but it does take a moment of thought. That’s all we’re asking really. Think before you drink.

Should new schools be built with an en suite toilet in every classroom? I know it’s expensive but would it be better than the alternative?
also… why IS behaviour so poor? I don’t remember any of this! (I’m 35)

It's such a ridiculous blanket rule. My DD called me in tears to be picked up after school one day because she hadn't been allowed to go to the toilet and had come on her period and leaked. They didn't have these rules when I was in secondary school and I don't remember any incidents happening in the toilets.

To a point we all have to manage using the toilet in our daily lives though eg long car journeys, certain jobs, events where no toilet is available. I always have to plan around this as I need frequent toilet visits! I was terrified of using the toilet in school back in the 90s, it was feral in there.

Yes that’s a great idea. My kids’ primary has loos between each pair of classrooms and they are trusted to go whenever. Don’t see why that shouldn’t be the case for high schools. Make going to the loo a massive deal and guess what, it turns into a huge drama. Make it no big deal and available whenever, and all is calm.

Behaviour is shit because there are a thousand humans in one place, being forced into one set of arbitrary pointless unrealistic rules. Which probably don’t suit anyone at all. These rules clearly aren’t even suiting the staff who enforce them….

This is one of the many reasons I left teaching. Yes, give teenagers an inch and often they’ll take a mile but to think anyone might actually soil themselves due to this stupid rule is inhumane. The school could supervise one small set of toilets for these situations but no. Easier to issue a blanket ban and cause misery and anxiety to genuine and sensitive pupils.

No, you can't trust that the environment is safe for a child to go to the loo by themselves. It's a building witih up to 2000 teenagers. That's common sense. The school's job is to take steps to minimise the risks, which they do by not allowing students to walk around unsupervised.

If they're attacked at break or lunch, there will be staff supervising the toilets. That's not the same.

At break or lunch, there will be a member of staff on duty outside the toilets who will be able to hear if something is happening, stop large groups go in together or if someone is spending a long time in there etc. So there's a lot less risk. There'll also staff on duty all around the school site - lots of the risky stuff that happens when pupils leave lessons doesn't always happen in the actual toilets but wherever the pupils can sneak off to hide etc.

Lots of schools are now switching to having toilets with no actual door, but wall to floor individual cubiciles, which means that a member of staff can stand in the corridor and see everything that's happening in the sink area.