Is being a family compatible with lack of freedom?

[bmosca]

For context: My wife (DW) and I have been married for over six years and have two young children — our son (DS) is 3, and our daughter (DD) is 6 months and currently breastfed. DW is on maternity leave and expected to return to work sometime next year. I work full-time as a software developer.

Recently, a friend invited me to play football after work.
It’s been a while since I’ve done any sport or had time for myself, so I accepted right away.
Around midday, I let DW know I’d be playing for 90 minutes after work. Her reaction caught me off guard — she was upset that I hadn’t “asked” her if it was okay for her to look after the kids during that time. I ended up cancelling the game.
Later, DW was emotional and said she feels like she spends the whole day without seeing me, and was hoping we’d go for a walk together with the kids after work. She also reminded me that maternity leave isn’t a holiday — which I do understand.
But I can’t help wondering: isn’t her day less stressful than mine?
She spends her time breastfeeding while watching TV, napping, and bonding with the children. We’re currently staying with her parents, so she doesn’t have to cook or manage household chores.
Meanwhile, I’m working full-time, attending meetings, and mentally drained by the end of the day.
After work, I still help with cooking, cleaning, bedtime routines, bathing, reading stories, calming DD when she’s unsettled, changing nappies, playing with the kids, handling paperwork, mowing the lawn, and washing the car.
The only things I don’t do are laundry and lunch prep.

I genuinely don’t mind taking care of the kids if she wants to meet a friend or take time for herself — I’ve told her that. But I’m struggling to understand why I need explicit permission to do something for myself, especially when I gave her notice well in advance.
If this is how things are, does having young kids mean I can never do anything social or recreational without it being a problem?

It's not "seeking permission." When your work day is over, you are both responsible for your children - why should she be the only one with a 24h job? Just check in with her, it's not rocket science.

👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

Of course it's not just 90 minutes, he believes the hard work only starts when he comes home, he can't hack the pressure and is trying to escape, resurecting old football friends to enable him to swing the lead, whilst his wife is at home chewing the edge of the settee going insane.

This. 💯
also his likely to go for post match drinks at the pub which would be another 1-2 hours 😡

Is being a family compatible with lack of freedom?

Ask your wife how she would answer that question. There’s very little freedom involved in looking after 2 small children, especially when doing night feeds.

Of course members of a family can do things for themselves outside of the family. You just need to realise that the other parent needs to take on extra work to accommodate this and make sure they are available and willing to do so.

Oh yes, spending the day breastfeeding a newborn and "bonding" with a 3 yo is very relaxing. 🙄

You chose to have 2 kids close together. You have two very expensive and time consuming hobbies.

You can start thinking about picking up your old hobbies in a year or two.

This captures it so well. Him assuming she is the default parent.

Oh and btw, you're not "helping". It's called parenting your own children. It's your legal responsibility.

DH and I have 4 children age 6 and under (one 5.5 months) so I feel like I’m in a position to comment.

I am at home and it is absolutely crazy busy, loud, chaotic, relentless and at times overwhelming.

We have a system. If my husband is planning something hobby or a weekend away. He puts it in the diary immediately so I get an alert. It is not a given that it is a yes but it at least gives me visibility over what’s coming and an opportunity to see if it will work and figure out logistics, as well as knowing we need to make space for the conversation.. Eg very unusually he is away for the next two full weekends. I have planned my week and commitments and knowing how tired I will be accordingly. I will try and take some time to myself in the evening in the two days up. It’s called love and relationship respect.

no he doesn’t have to “ask” me but I would be very upset and frustrated if he called me midday to tell me he wasn’t coming home that night. Same goes both ways. I would call him and chat about it.

I think you should put the shoe on the other foot. You spend a full Saturday with the kids totally alone , expecting your DW to return at 6 and she calls and says it will be 8pm before she is home. Maybe then you will begin to understand.

It's not asking permission, it is consulting whether the time you wish to do sport at short notice is reasonable, considering the needs of your children that day.
Texting that you will not be home, as expected, due to an emergency is different to texting to say you will be playing sport.
So an actual phone call and a respectful conversation would have been acceptable. Ask how the kids are, how you wife is and whether that night is suitable.

Ideally your wife would be very happy to hear of you having a regular match with a work colleague - unless the friend is a woman.

Try setting up a regular sport night so family is prepared for you not being there.
Organise outings for your wife and you going on walks etc.
And it's healthy that you support her to see friends too, at times when it suits you to care for the kids.

Nah, that's only one day.

He needs to try two weeks, it's the relentlesness of it, it takes endurance.

Sorry quoted wrong poster.

That was in relation to @Thunderpants88 post

I think a lot of the PPs have done a good job of explaining to you the naivety of your assumption that your job is more stressful than the hours of unpaid childcare work that your wife does.

It is not unreasonable for you to have 90mins/week to yourself to play some sport but it is unreasonable of you to just assume that it will be OK for you to go off and do this whenever you choose with very little notice.

It sounds to me like your wife really values spending time with you in the evening which is absolutely lovely. Don't spoil it by taking her for granted.

Explain that you would like to play footie once a week because you feel it will be good for your physical and mental health but that you don't want to make her life any harder than it already is, so in exchange would she consider you providing childcare one evening a week so that she can also have an evening off each week to help preserve her sanity.

You need to talk about this though in advance. You don't need to ask.permission like a child but you do need to come to an agreement like an adult.

Springing it on her with little notice is just not fair or reasonable.

So she has to ask you to take care of your shared children if she wants time to herself but you don't think you should ask or check in with her before you unilaterally make a decision about going out?

Can you and your useless nipples not see how contradictory this is?

Ha ha. Are you joking?

Recovering from pregnancy, birth and breastfeeding alone are a lot harder than going into the office!

Yes you are expected to be there to support and she seems to also look forward to your company.

I think if you feel you aren’t getting enough exercise and would like to eg play football once a week speak to her again.

Yes having a young family is incompatible with going off and doing what you want when you want to do it with no agreement or compromise.

Family doesn't have to curb your freedom, you should both make time for each other. AND for each other to be able to do things outside the family.

What it does inhibit is spontaneity. You can't just suddenly go off and do something as you must consider others.

How long have you been staying with parents for? Does she never offer to cook or put a hoover round the living room, or wipe down the kitchen worktops while you’ve been there? Her parents must be saints and she’s very lucky they’re looking after her in this way

You are looking at your wife’s maternity leave through rose tinted glasses. I would put money on the fact that she wouldn’t describe her day in the terms as you did. I really enjoyed my time on maternity leave. However, it was full on, relentless, exhausting and hard work. It was nothing like you’ve described and this is in the context of me having an ‘easy’ baby - your wife is juggling two children whilst not in her own home. Your phrasing shows a complete misunderstanding for what your wife does everyday, with a dismissive and disrespectful tone.

It’s not wrong for you to have a hobby and for you to want to see friends. It is wrong for you to simply tell her that you’re going out without consulting her first. You both have children; they are your equal responsibility. If one of you wants to go out, it’s basic politeness and respect to discuss that with the other partner first to ensure that there’s a plan in place for the children. You’ve assumed, rather than checked, that she will be ok caring for them and I’m not surprised that irritated her.

OK this is probably unpopular but I do think she was unreasonable, but you both are. You should be able to have down time to, it does sound like you are spinning a lot of plates. However from the way you have worded things you are also a bit of an arsehole. No she is not on easy street - a 6 month old and a young child is very demanding and it sounds like all she wants was to be asked something like she still matters and not just screamed at for the thing someone else wants. From this it does sound like you are doing plenty around the house and with the kids but who knows how true that actually is, as you seem to think it's all so easy and her reluctance to leave you alone with them. She just sounds like she's feeling abit over whelmed and unappreciated, with two young children you really feel like you lose yourself completely.

'She spends her time breastfeeding while watching TV'

You do realise that you can't really do anything else while breastfeeding a baby? What do you expect her to be doing while breastfeeding? Would it make you feel better if she didn't put the TV on?

You also say that she doesn't need to do any cooking as you are living with her parents, but you have said that you do the cooking. You are trying to big-up your contributions and responsibilities while denigrating hers.

Parents taking care of small children are like two police officers who are running surveillance on a suspect 24/7. Both of them are going to need some time off, but one doesn’t just announce to the other, “I’ve made plans on Thursday, so you’ve got to watch the suspect.” They’re partners in the surveillance, and each one needs to plan with the input of the other.

Taking care of an infant while trying to give time and attention to a three-year-old is no small feat - especially if you’ve got the type of baby who takes half an hour or more to breastfeed. I purposely spaced my kids so that the older one would be old enough for preschool when the younger one was born, and it was still difficult, especially over the summer. My older daughter actually snuck outside once while I was feeding her sister.

Breastfeeding mothers don’t really ever get a break from parenthood. Either they’ve got to be with the baby to feed the baby, or they spend a significant amount of time pumping milk, which just gives them more time isolated from other adults. With both my kids, I didn’t even feel like an actual human being again until I quit breastfeeding.

We always asked one another first, not for permission but because someone has to have the kids so there has to be a plan. Being a parent 101. FGS don't have kids unless you get this.

Your children are very young and this period is very intense. When mine were those ages, I counted down until my husband got home and could bounce the baby for a bit and just give me a bit of space. It's not a case that one "job" s more difficult that the other, but if your job went through the night and needed doing 7 days a week, you might just look forward to the time when someone came along and gave you some breathing room for a room; an ear to listen, an extra set of hands etc. my husband often felt like you, and it was only as our kids got older and he could have them for a day at the weekend that he came to realise how tense it was. He acknowledged that he had headspace during his commute and could get a quick break here and there, whereas at home he couldn't even go to the loo in peace!

For now, maybe it's a case of some forward planning and looking at how you can both get some leisure time during the week. it doesn't last forever though. Eventually you'll hit the stage where you are both working, and have school aged kids with different extra-curricular, parents evenings, play dates etc, and you will both finish work and being running round taxing kids every night/weekend.

“Oh, do you have no arms and one leg? I have no arms and no legs, and I’d be so happy if I could have one leg like you.”

It’s not the Suffering Olympics.

And in the nicest way, perhaps be really appreciative of the help you are getting by neither of you having to cook etc. when I had two of those ages, I often needed DH to cook or help with the housework after a big day at works, especially when the kids were sick etc.