Is being a family compatible with lack of freedom?

[bmosca]

For context: My wife (DW) and I have been married for over six years and have two young children — our son (DS) is 3, and our daughter (DD) is 6 months and currently breastfed. DW is on maternity leave and expected to return to work sometime next year. I work full-time as a software developer.

Recently, a friend invited me to play football after work.
It’s been a while since I’ve done any sport or had time for myself, so I accepted right away.
Around midday, I let DW know I’d be playing for 90 minutes after work. Her reaction caught me off guard — she was upset that I hadn’t “asked” her if it was okay for her to look after the kids during that time. I ended up cancelling the game.
Later, DW was emotional and said she feels like she spends the whole day without seeing me, and was hoping we’d go for a walk together with the kids after work. She also reminded me that maternity leave isn’t a holiday — which I do understand.
But I can’t help wondering: isn’t her day less stressful than mine?
She spends her time breastfeeding while watching TV, napping, and bonding with the children. We’re currently staying with her parents, so she doesn’t have to cook or manage household chores.
Meanwhile, I’m working full-time, attending meetings, and mentally drained by the end of the day.
After work, I still help with cooking, cleaning, bedtime routines, bathing, reading stories, calming DD when she’s unsettled, changing nappies, playing with the kids, handling paperwork, mowing the lawn, and washing the car.
The only things I don’t do are laundry and lunch prep.

I genuinely don’t mind taking care of the kids if she wants to meet a friend or take time for herself — I’ve told her that. But I’m struggling to understand why I need explicit permission to do something for myself, especially when I gave her notice well in advance.
If this is how things are, does having young kids mean I can never do anything social or recreational without it being a problem?

So your wife doesn't do household chores because you are living with parents but when you get home you do the cooking, cleaning, mowing of lawn and car washing. I smell bullshit.

Sorry what? Did I say that we are joined at the hip? My DH is just fine thanks. We can both handle our DC perfectly well. We treat each other with consideration and respect. I promise men don't need your sympathy, the men are fine.

If your in laws hive you a break, good for you. But not everyone has family like that. Bit of empathy and imagination perhaps?

If your DH is routinely doing what he wants without asking (and no, telling is not the same thing) you really will get sick of it eventually I promise. Don't fall into the trap of being default parent for the sake of his freedom.

I think a msg to say
“Fred has asked if I want to kick a ball around after work for about 90 minutes, dos that fit in with the plan for this evening” rather then just expecting to go would have been tactful.
Im not surprised she felt a little resentful, even if it seems a bit unfair, no one is probably messaging her to catch up and she wouldn’t be able to go at a drop of a hat.
Why don’t you make a regular time slot each week for your exercise, planned in advance, so that it’s known you are going to be doing it and your DW will have that information in advance.
My DH kept up with his hobby once a week when we had smallies, unless they were poorly and he made sure he was around if I wanted to get a coffee with a friend, I didn’t like to leave mine for too long but it sounded like she was looking forward to seeing you and by you springing it on her that made it a problem.

I was a completely lone parent. I always think these sorts of threads are very complicated as I’ve done both. I used to find my job absolutely exhausting and full on… and would love being at home with my DD at weekends and evenings and I found this easier overall I think.
I think she was probably a good baby and there wasn’t a toddler in the mix! That really does make a difference .
My mat leave was great and I went travelling with my DD to Asia when she was 4 months for 6 weeks before I went back to work.

I did find getting home from work and straight into toddler world very difficult and lack of sleep.

I think a baby and a toddler is tough. Does your wife get time to go somewhere on her own? I agree you need a sporting outlet especially if you’re a SW developer with the pressure combined with sedentary life style. maybe you just need to give it a few more months and ensure your wife too has some time away and you both communicate about it better beforehand.

I also have a friend whose partner took a year out to support her in her job when they moved countries. He loved it and his time with kids - but it certainly made him appreciate everything that’s involved and their parenting relationship has been better since.
maybe you can take come parental leave when your wife goes back to work so you can see both sides .

good luck with everything !

I am actually struggling to believe that someone would write this on a site dedicated to predominantly mothers. If he thinks going to meetings is more mentally draining than looking after 2 kids then he's clearly not looked after them alone (or, at least, not for terribly long). Assuming the OP is a man here, I could be wrong about that, but if it's a woman, point still stands.

I think it’s not about “asking permission” but about having a conversation about proposed plans to ensure no clashes and notifying the other person. You are completely right to have 90 minutes to yourself and your wife should be able to do the same even with young children. It’s about communicating though.

I had a similar mindset to you and it’s taken a while to get to where we are now but now when there’s something I want to do I say “sure I’ll check there’s nothing else going on at home I’m not aware of” then I message my husband and say “I was going to go to spin tonight 5-6. Do you have any plans or is that okay?” If he has plans then we negotiate or rearrange things. It’s curtersy.

Also if I couldn’t do something due to a kids club or something I’d normally rearrange whatever I want to do so you could then plan with your wife to attend football the week after so it’s no spur of the moment. I think spontaneous activities are harder to achieve when young children are about. Especially if your wife has had a hard day or mentally draining day.

it is important that both of you get time to do things which are good for your mental health like sports or resting or whatever you want to do.

How disengaged are you that you have no clue what having a 3 year old and a breastfed 6 month old is like? She might not even be fully recovered from labour if it was bad.

And yes, having kids means you can't do what you want when you want any more. How did you not realise that after the first one?

Do you actually see your wife as a partner and person or is she just the nanny and all purpose domestic appliance that you still, with a 3 year old and a baby, think you can just bugger off at will and have to ask whether your life needs to change?

Work is a holiday compared to looking after young children

Yes - this is really well put.
it isn’t a competition - both roles are tough.

The problem here is you're judging and making assumptions about how hard it is for DW vs you. This shows a total lack of respect for your wife - they are your children too!! Let's be real you're married with kids now, not a single man - that boat has sailed.

Some fathers do seem to think that maternity leave is a holiday 😂. When you're breastfeeding it drains the body and you have a toddler to be looked after too - regardless of the fact your living with in laws. Your total lack of understanding frankly speaks volumes.

Being a STAHM with 2 small children is emotionally and mentally draining and mostly very boring so even more draining. However long and hard your work day is - hers is equally so.

So in short, yes, when you have a family you have less personal freedom and need to plan ahead, last minute things can be disruptive with small children. And yes, you should've said, I've been asked to play football tonight and I'd really to go . . because. . I'll be home by x/y/zpm, Is that okay with you?

What if she’d also accepted a long awaited invite from a friend to play sport that evening, and accepted without speaking to you first. Who would’ve been there to look after your children?
You’re not checking with your wife to get ‘permission’, you have responsibilities at home that require parenting, and therefore you need to coordinate with the other parent plans when you deviate from the schedule. It’s not that hard to grasp, when you think about it.

You don't sound like an adult actually.

You sound like a stunningly selfish person.

And you also sound like a parent who has never actually parented on your own without the other parent organising and picking up everything for you and being the backup parent, the one you can turn to when things get a bit tough, rather than the one the buck stops with.

If you don't get your act together I don't think your marriage will be happy.

First off you need to spend time alone with your older child, without your wife being present. Get to know your kid, get to feel that sense of responsibility without feeling Mummy is responsible for everything.

Oh and breastfeeding is f exhausting. F exhausting.

You already have a lot of freedom compared to your wife. Paid employment is a piece of cake compared to being at home with children. I say this as someone with a high level corporate job, I work long hours and earn significantly more than my husband. I've also been at home with kids. Your wife's day is way more stressful than yours.
At paid work you get some time to yourself, even if it's just the commute, or even going to the bathroom on your own.
When does your wife get any time to herself?
I'm sure she wouldn't have an issue with you going out if you actively helped her to take some time to herself as well.

I am actually struggling to believe that someone would write this on a site dedicated to predominantly mothers. If he thinks going to meetings is more mentally draining than looking after 2 kids then he's clearly not looked after them alone (or, at least, not for terribly long).

In fairness to him (if it is a him), it’s very hard to understand how draining small children are if you haven’t done it. I thought maternity leave sounded like a doss until I did it.

He sounds like a classic well meaning but very naive dad who hasn’t got a clue what it feels like because he’s never done it. Honestly most blokes are like this when they have new kids.

Probably the only sensible answer on here, sorry OP you were bound to get jumped on, this is Mumsnet and it’s very biased.
Go and enjoy your football, it’s essential for both partners to have a distraction outside the home, it will do you the world of good to get fresh air and exercise, and the same for your wife if she wants a break.

Your wife is the default daytime parent due to her current availablity in the daytime... I get that.

But in the evening or outside of work hours, you can tag team on the role. By not asking if she is free to continue the default role, you are showing a complete lack of respect.

As a parent you hold joint responsibility for the care of your children and as a husband you hold a partial responsibility for the well-being of your wife. Think of your life being a series of responsibilities alongside your personal freedoms. You can't both be out without the kids. Your wife currently looks forward to you coming home. Do you want that to continue?

OP if you had shown an ounce of empathy for your wife instead of denigrating everything she does all day while big noting Yourself then you may have had different responses.

My advice is make sure your wife is regularly getting time to herself or with friends while you have the DC. She is really in the trenches right now. Set that up first. Then start talking about your own fitness and health. The way you say that you have not done anything for your fitness and health makes me suspect that you have had purely social outings since DD came along.

You need to see leisure time as something that both parents are entitled to equal amounts of or your marriage will either fail or be miserable

We both have our own lives away from our DC. I do 12 hour shifts at my employment, and he’s responsible for the childminder drop of and pick ups and dinner and bedtime routine. If I messaged him telling him I’m going out after work for a drink with my colleague or the gym, he wouldn’t respond with “ but we haven’t seen each other all day” or “ but I’ve had DC all by myself this evening” because we have a very healthy relationship where we are both equals. There is no “ but I’ve done this and I do all the laundry and I cooked the dinner”.

The op clearly doesn’t take the piss, he comes home from work and does the cooking, helps with the children etc even though she’s had help all day. 90 minutes with his friends isn’t asking the end of the earth. Mumsnet isn’t the best place to come and ask questions like this to be honest, all the hard done by mums who chose to have children and expect their partners to have no life after will see this post as heaven!

it’s hard for new Dads too. Yes their life doesn’t change as much as a mums, my DC definitely prefers me to my partner and he’s 16 months old and not easy. If I’ve had a bad day with day with him I can’t wait for my partner to come home but I still don’t get 5 minutes to myself. DC ends up in the bath with me, follows me round whilst I’m trying to undertake domestic chores or life admin. So makes no difference if my partner is home or not so he may as well go and have some time with his friends. We have weekends together, we spend every night sleeping next to each other. It’s called being a grown up!

OPs wife probably know it's more likely 2hrs+, by factoring in the game, getting to/from and socialising after.

So she has no household chores because it's not their house, but he has a list of household chores, including gardening, although it's not their house? Sure....

Why are you insisting upon comparing everything to your own very different life. You aren't on maternity leave, you only have one child and you dont live with your parents.

There's a difference between having "no life" and just announcing that you aren't coming home when you have a little baby. That's not mutual consideration.

Why on earth can't your DP entertain your child whilst you're in the bath? You'll want to nip that in the bud sooner rather than later.

I think you need to reframe a lot of things here. It’s not about asking explicit permission, it’s about having a conversation before making a decision that will impact someone else. Re your DW being at home with the kids, while there are potentially some amazing aspects to this, I don’t think you realise quite how dull it can be. I found being at home really hard and would pounce on my DH the moment he got home. Others will no doubt have had other experiences. I realised after a bit how different my DH’s daily life was. He was stressed at work but I was stressed in a different way. I was keeping my child alive through breastfeeding which I loved but at times just wanted my body back. Someone always needed something from me. I was stressed because I didn’t feel like I was doing enough/didn’t know what I was doing/felt like I should be feeling joyful at this time I have to bond with my child but was feeling sleep deprived, depleted, bored, no idea who I was anymore. You’ve talked about the practical things re the kids and how you feel about freedom. How does your wife feel? I think you need to have deeper conversations with her about how things are going.

Rage bait. Crazy how your wife has such a relaxing day at home with the baby, but you have such a long list of draining child-related things in the evening that you're "help[ING]" with.

I have a 6mo, and breastfeed, DH works from home and is great, does all the cleaning and cooks dinner (I often try and make the bulk of dinner in the daytime around upset baby to help). The problem is the childcare is relentless - you can't do anything unless the small person allows you to. DH can go to the gym, meet friends, even hopping in the car to run to the shop without our baby is something I can't do. He always asks me if him going to the gym/meet a friend is okay - it is lonely being at home on your own and not getting a break. The issue is you have constant childcare for your kids, from your wife, and it irks when that job is 24/7.

What free time does your wife get and would she have to ask you in order to have it? If you want to avoid that resentment building up, try tapping her out - say I'll take the kids for half an hour if you want some time to yourself. I don't think you should have had to cancel your football plans, but you should have asked first.

I'm a bit sceptical about the cooking and cleaning bit - OP says his wife doesn't do any of that because her parents do it all, but he also says that in the evening he 'helps with cooking and cleaning' and says his wife does lunch prep and the laundry. Just like the way that a day of sitting around having a lovely time somehow turns into an evening of labour once he has to do it, I'm not so convinced that her wife is being waited on hand and foot during the day, whatever he thinks.