Marriage/motherhood warning list

[Someoneshouldatoldme]

Based on many many threads here and my own lived experience, shouldn't we warn all daughters and women pre-marriage or motherhood so that they really know what they'regetting into? I'll list a few, feel free to add:

1. Don't have a child with ANYONE at all unless you know you can manage as a single parent

1. If your husband tells you they want a child and will look after them as well as you, assume they mean occasional fun times and some cooking. (If you're proven wrong, you'll be delighted)

1. Your husband might become your biggest problem once you are pregnant or with a child. Even the 'nicest' guys can (and many will) turn emotionally or physically abusive at this time. You might end up seriously hurt. Many will cheat.

1. Never assume his money is family money. He might pretend for years that it is, only for you to find out that it isnt.

Any others?

Statistically if you have kids, the female parent is likely to end up being exploited by the male parent.

Oh wow! The stink of misogyny!
I do none of what you describe, but believe me, the mental load is heavy enough. But its less heavy now that i know for a fact i am the only one responsible. It was way worse when married and being under illusion that i had support.
(Its no fun writing on every calendar about childs dentist appointment, reminding husband night before, reminding husband in the morning, sending husband a text before appointment and calling husband to see they were on time. Knowing if you wont he wont remember to go. And doing it even though youd be called a nag. One little example of many.)

This is so true. Women create a lot of work for themselves. There are a long list of tasks in our house that my husband doesn’t do because either he doesn’t notice or he doesn’t think it needs to be done. When we met he lived in a clean tidy apartment, so I know he doesn’t want to live in filthy squalor. But he’d probably change the sheets monthly rather than fortnightly, the cleaner came fortnightly, not weekly. He absolutely wouldn’t run about after DC like I do. They might do 1 out of school club, and only then if they got themselves there and back. He certainly wouldn’t spend 3 nights/week ferrying children around. We wouldn’t have pets- because that is just another responsibility

My children learnt about what makes a healthy relationship at school in PSHE lessons in secondary school, so some schools are trying. I think that shit men are so common that it’s hard for people to learn about good relationships in real life. Bad relationships are so often the norm that I think it’s really hard to teach to not put up with it sadly as it’s normalised everywhere, even on here sometimes.

If my husband didn't do at least half of the housework and childcare he'd be out on his arse! It's teamwork. Won't accept anything less. And he expects the same from me (and quite rightly so). But then I'd never become a SAHP and believe both partners should also go out and earn.

If you sometimes think he drinks too much, too often or you don't like the way he behaves when drunk, don't marry him.
If you ever feel afraid of him, physically, verbally or emotionally, even a little bit, don't marry him.
If his interactions with women ever make you feel uncomfortable, if he's too interested in them, looks over your shoulder at them, prides himself on being a charmer, don't marry him.
If he lies or acts without integrity to other people, don't marry him.
If there are reasons why you shouldn't marry him, the above or others, don't have children with him.

Re "Bitter" - this is covered in Hags by Victoria Smith. Older women who pass on important advice to younger women are painted as 'bitter', 'sad', 'jealous', 'irrelevant' and victims of their own poor choices. Unlike smarter, kinder younger women who are 'empowered' and certainly won't make the same terrible choices their mothers and aunts did. Only sadly those cool younger chicks will all too soon become bitter old crones, desperately trying to warn the next generation...who will be far too smart and cool to take such old fashioned, one sided advice...and thus the cycle goes on.

Don’t stop breastfeeding when you want to but are finding it hard “so we can both bond and share the night feeds” He’ll get bored before nightfall on the first day.

If you find your partner isn’t pulling his weight, choices are less confrontational eg do you want to bath baby or cook dinner?

don’t become the default parent who needs to know/ remember/ manage the family. Share that shit out

God your girls will think you are a right doom monger. Think you spend too much time on the internet.

I think women have to try, where at all possible, not to leave themselves vulnerable to a power imbalance. And state your expectations from Day 1!

Make sure your own pension or savings are not reduced if you're a SAHP. Don't rely on the other person to generously split their pension fairly with you if you split up later in life.

Jesus Christ.

The answer is not to expect this low low bar from men.

It's to have a higher bar.

THAT's what we should all be teaching our daughters.

I'd add that if they go self employed take a good look at their free time - over half of the men I know who divorced and ran off with OW really pre-planned that they'd hide assets and not pay Child Support this way. Try to keep his accounts open and traceable as possible if he does this as it's all too easy for them to hide everything.

If you’re not 100% on having children - then don’t have children.

Don’t have stupid “rules” for a newborn. Such as “no visitors for the first 3 weeks” “no holding the baby if he/she is alseep with me” “don’t ask to come round. We organise visits”. - you’re just going to alienate yourself and push your family and friends away.

No one will be as excited for your wedding/hen do other than you. Most other people won’t give a shit. Please don’t turn into bridezilla and have ridiculous demands. Don’t expect your bridesmaids to have the same level as interest in your wedding as you.

If your partner/husband is ever physical towards you - LEAVE. He won’t change. He won’t be sorry. It won’t ever be “only once”.

Good friends are just as import as your spouse. Make time for them. Make the effort to see them.

Don’t lose yourself.

I agree,don’t marry a man who doesn’t think you are the best thing to ever happen to him!

Talk about where you want to live before you get serious because inevitably both of you will want to live close to home!

Another for the ‘have some back up money just in case’

Remember you both need to get out and both need to have time to be you, life makes you busy and you turn into a joint at the hip ball of monotony very easily!

Date nights are so important

go with your gut

I don't think you belong here

Disgusting comments

"Find a woman poorer than you, don't ever marry her or see her as an equal, and children don't matter - you leave if you are unhappy because only you matter"

At least you are honest. Twat.

My mum was a social worker and regularly took us to drop off clothes at the local women’s hospice.

i recall very clearly her consistent advice to me and my sister was ‘never put yourself in the position where you can’t financially support yourself’.

sadly my sister didn’t heed this warning and was engaged overseas to an abusive man. But I turned up with a credit card and booked her flights for the next day and she came home with me and lived with me for a year.

i’m no saint though and also made mistakes, including being in an abusive relationship, but after he turned violent when I got pregnant I had the financial means to support myself as a lone parent and did just that.

both of us learned from those relationships and both of us are now happy with the men we chose.

Im child free by choice and i went on a couple of chat shows about the subject back in the late 90s. I was 24 then and am 52 now. I was treated like some sort of alien. In fact a male American voice shouted across the TV studio "you"re not human" (this was in the UK) I was an outlier then. Im not now!

@Robin67 I actually agree that the expectations should be clear from Day 1 and that if the other party then begins to "slack" with these then it is reasonable to ask them to buck up their ideas or leave.
My husband and I expect to share both the childcare and housework equally, we both expect each other to contribute financially by both working etc. If these things didn't happen then our marriage would need looking at. I would not tolerate a lazy husband!

As time goes on I'm increasingly wanting to advise young and not so young women (especially those I hear in the local cafe centring their entire lives around their latest 🙄 waste) ...

Observe how he treats his mum, sisters, friends, shop and restaurant staff, other road users, animals. That'll be you.

The overgrown child / computer gaming adolescent who does not understand life involves cleaning, tidying, refilling, buying, cooking, washing up, emptying, taking out, picking up, folding, hanging up, feeding, changing, parenting, bill paying, date remembering and wiping his own arse properly etc is looking for Mummy 2.0.

Do not trust a man who does not live with his dependent children. He either walked out on them, or she got them away from him. Get to know her.

Do not believe a married man who claims they're only staying together for the sake of the children / they're more like brother and sister / they're separated but still live in the same house but don't sleep together bla bla bla.

Beware the love bomber. It's the pretty side of coercive control.

No man falls in love as quickly as a man who needs a place to stay.

Beware the man in search of a nanny with a fanny or a nurse with a purse.

Beware the maybe baby future faker.

Don't give up education/work to be a SAHM. Have your own safe money. Income, savings, pension . Being able to get away even if you never need to is wise.

Do not get pregnant with a man who will not marry you in the hope that it will make him propose.

If he pulls a trick like cake smash at your wedding, that is an expression of control.

If he cheated on her with you, he'll cheat on you with next. And it will serve you right.

If you have children with a man who already has dependent children, accept that a chunk of household money will be legally and morally those children's. Not yours.

He may reveal a 'different' side when you're pregnant, in labour, post partum, recovering, breast feeding, centring a human being who isn't him.

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I think there should be a range of Mumsnet books for girls, teens, young women and mature women. A box set of warnings.

Never, ever, ever take risks with contraception. If you use contraception properly it is vanishingly unlikely that you will get pregnant. Almost all accidental pregnancies are user error. Do not get pregnant if you are not as close to 100% sure as possible that YOU want a baby, a child, a teenager…

I do find the initial post a bit doom mongering as well as horribly stereotyping, as if women are all fantastic and men are all shits. My DH was married to someone who can’t be bothered to turn up to parent evenings, who cheated, who is fundamentally lazy and doesn’t put the work in. And that’s my observation, not what he’s telling me to think.

That aside, advice I would give - and it would be ignored because humanity has ever been thus (we are doomed to repeat mistakes):

• Don’t let your boyfriend get in the way of finding your husband - too many people waste time with a partner they know is flawed in a way they really hate, and sometimes even end up marrying them because they are ‘there’
• Always cultivate your career and own earnings. You never know what life is going to throw at you, even if you have the most wonderful provider of a husband.
• A leopard will never change it spots. No one is perfect but be clear about the type of imperfect you’re prepared to put up with. And with that, know what you stand for and what your values are and protect them at all costs.
• Invest in yourself, not by obsessively getting gel nails or fiddling around with your hair, but by nurturing and cultivating interests. By being curious about life you will encounter and attract someone who matches your energy.
• I’m when it comes to parenthood, if he can’t be bothered to help babysit his niece or never looks at another child and goes how lovely, there’s not some kind of magic switch thats suddenly going to be turned on and make him the best father ever. Many men are utterly disinterested in having children, and those men will leave you to handle the lion’s share of the mental load.

Well remaining financially independant from each other is a good way to start, and not ignoring all the red flags because bad attention is better than no attention may also help

@curious79

I do find the initial post a bit doom mongering as well as horribly stereotyping

I don’t think its doom mongering at all. It just wants women to focus on the practicalities.

Theres an awful tendency on the part of a lot of women to think marriage is the end of the journey, the point where you relax and exhale and everything falls into place.

In fact marriage is the start. And depending on who you have married it can either be a joyful support to your life or the start of a period of horrendous indentured servitude.

Part of the reason why we are so bad at making good decisions here is the miasma of “romance” that swirls around marriage and the way it obscures our ability to think about what we actually need.

Society doesn’t encourage us to have open conversations about what we want from our marriages because we are expected to be so grateful to have been “picked”.