Marriage/motherhood warning list

[Someoneshouldatoldme]

Based on many many threads here and my own lived experience, shouldn't we warn all daughters and women pre-marriage or motherhood so that they really know what they'regetting into? I'll list a few, feel free to add:

1. Don't have a child with ANYONE at all unless you know you can manage as a single parent

1. If your husband tells you they want a child and will look after them as well as you, assume they mean occasional fun times and some cooking. (If you're proven wrong, you'll be delighted)

1. Your husband might become your biggest problem once you are pregnant or with a child. Even the 'nicest' guys can (and many will) turn emotionally or physically abusive at this time. You might end up seriously hurt. Many will cheat.

1. Never assume his money is family money. He might pretend for years that it is, only for you to find out that it isnt.

Any others?

I already said that was a tongue in cheek comment. This whole thread is about raising awareness and asking for what we deserve.

My mother used to say it was better if the man loved the woman a little bit more than the woman loved the man because women tend to give more of themselves anyhow. Was perplexing at the time, but now I understand her. They were happily married for 50 years.

Addictions and obsessions.

Boys, teens and men are under the influence of Tate bollocks and porn.

Too many of them think women and girls are not quite human.

Be vigilant for any signs of it in your partner / son.

Also - addictions and obsessions will get worse as the high diminishes and they look for more.

Alcohol and drug use

Porn consumption

Any level of cross dressing - what starts as a harmless little bedroom kink can escalate into a great deal more, become more extreme and involve you and other people. (Watch 'Our Yorkshire Shop' for an example of it escalating before your very eyes).

And sport and hobbies - football behaviour, cycling, golf and Morris dancing have all made appearances on Mumsnet!

No, it really is a ‘me’ thread.

Giving daughters such low expectations will
likely mean they don’t bother at all to engage with perfectly normal, and biologically driven, behaviours like marriage and children. Why would anyone be interested in the slightest given your list of ‘preparations’?

You’ve had a bad experience. I’m really sorry about that.
And you hang out on MN, so you’re in a virtual echo chamber and now think your experience is the norm. It’s really not. The vast majority of ‘problems’ raised on this forum are interesting and engaging because they aren’t situations you come across every day.

I won’t be giving my daughter your list, but she is already being taught how to value herself, how to spot red flags (she and her friends are almost expert red flag spotters now! 😂), and how to express her expectations of others.
That’s all you can do without scaremongering or taking away her belief that she can achieve the sort of life she would like.

I would go further and say don’t even if your partner says they will support you. Anything can happen and change including the mind of the wealthy supportive father.

Yep. Along with not my Nigel / but won’t someone think about the men and the accusation of being bitter and it’s your fault for picking a bad ‘un.

I will tell my daughters that if I hadn't met their father I would likely never have had children. Seeing my mother raise four children on her own and escape an abusive marriage meant that the bar was unbelievably high for me to even contemplate marriage and kids.

That even with the most committed, progressive, dedicated coparent and father, the motherhood penalty is real. Until we see greater societal shifts that will remain the case for many if not most. To make their decisions with their eyes wide open, with motherhood being just about the toughest job out there.

And to always be ready to go it alone. You never know what life is going to throw at you, and self reliance is absolutely essential.

Not my Nigel made me laugh

I’ve got a good marriage but there were so many things I was clueless about - I look back at my younger self and wonder WTF. mumsnet is full of young women in a financial and emotional mess so this handbook thread is clearly needed

Don't have a kid with him unless he married you first. Don't give up work. Make him get involved with childcare early. Joint finances or a joint pot based on percentage of earnings. Talk through parenting styles, red lines etc etc before you have kids. Oh and make sure he's cut those apron strings!

How is going into having kids with your eyes open giving our daughters low expectations? I don’t understand. Being financially independent and not being grateful a man has chosen you so you put up with all sorts of shite is good advice imho.

My Mum told me her Mum passed this advice on and I think it's sound.

It sounds like you and your daughter live in a beautiful bubble where all has been figured out. I am very happy for you and hope your bubble expands out further and further. Many don't unfortunately.

I can hang out on mumsnet as much as want. And i do. Women on here have given me so much support and perspective im eternally grateful for.

I look around me and what i see is this: women still doing at least 2/3 of household, meta-work and childcare. Being the invisible facilitator and default parent to meet everyone's needs. Modern dads taking their kids to school and hobbies but prioritising their own gadgets and interests over wife's. Using big chunks of their more generous incomes to fulfill their own needs and believing it is down to them being cleverer than their wife. Wives being so used to this and accepting their position in the family/world.

One of my favourite bits from Peggy Sue Got Married:

“Peggy Sue, you know what a penis is?” “Yes Mama.”
“Well, stay away from them!”

I could have written this, up to about 14 years into my first marriage. Then he moved all the goalposts and wanted to re-live his youth, which included experiencing other women.

Not calling you smug, but honestly, sometimes we have no idea what's around the corner. I've seen many men spin on a dime, when they think they are approaching middle age (as early as mid 30's). Previously rock solid marriages blown apart overnight.

If this is the case, most people will not be having children.
Everything in life comes with risk and I know several couples where the relationship has worked out. I totally understand the risks involved, I am a single parent and did it all with no support of any kind.
It's important not to be too cynical

I think it is a very good thing if women choose not to have children with useless/abusive/violent/dishonest men. In that way maybe the male gender realises they need to change to be chosen.

No, they’re not. I’ve had two long term husbands (wudowed now) and both were lovely sharing, supportive men. 😊

Of course that’s what you see, because people only post here with their ‘problems’.
You don’t hear from me or the others who don’t live as you have described. We don’t come on here bragging that we have fantastic DHs who absolutely pull their weight and sometimes more than their weight. Who are caring and thoughtful and are the best male role models for our kids.

MN is not a reliable place for you to work out your percentages. It’s completely distorted and biased towards the negative by its very nature. People come here asking for help with issues, not to chat about how great their lives are.

1. Don't bother. Just decenter men.

2. If you want a child, use a sperm donor.

3. Enjoy your peaceful life.

Yes this exactly! People move so fast and wonder then why the person they’ve had children with turns out to be someone entirely different to the person they dated first 6 months. Take it slowww.

I absolutely detest it when women say "raise the bar" or "choose better". It's so fucking smug. No doubt trotted out by women who have never been blindsided by a man.

What the hell are you meant to do, if after several years of a perfect marriage your DH moves all the goalposts? He feels like he missed out on only having sex with one woman, and now starts reaching out to (and having sex with) women who aren't you? What if he sleeps with your best friend (like mine did)?

I suppose all of us wives who this has happened to, should have seen it coming? Somehow it's our fault, and not his?

Thanks very much. It's utter misogyny.

I see that around me. I have many close friends with families and the story is always the same. Women don't usually leave unless something really bad happens (cheating, violence etc..) They just accept their reality and carry on bearing the majority of the burden whilst their husbands are spending their 'hard earned cash' and time on golfing, snowboarding, surfing, associated gadgets and whatever else. The mums are happy if they get one girls weekend away per year, and even then its a major preparation requiring planning. Its maybe exaggerated, but theres truth to it.

So do you suggest we tell our daughters ’Don’t do it!’ You will inevitably end up distraught and alone’?

I am VERY aware that life can change in a blink. I don’t think it’s healthy to live each day in the expectation of it all turning to shit though. What is there to gain?

Alone does not automatically mean distraught. And it doesnt mean lonely.
I hope you teach your daughter that.

That’s not what I see around me at all.
I see strong, loving families. Of course all have their occasional issues, but by and large they are happy. Out of our extended friendship group only one couple has divorced, most have now older DC and are starting to enjoy early retirement, off travelling etc. The younger couples are enjoying the people their kids are growing into, excitedly planning next steps for them etc.

If I started talking about your list, I would be given quizzical looks. And the men of my acquaintance would be pretty offended.