To think 17 is too young to drive

[KimberleyClark]

Three teenage boys (described as mid teens by police have been killed in a crash in the Highlands). I cannot begin to imagine what their parents are going through.

https://news.sky.com/story/three-teenage-boys-killed-in-highlands-car-crash-13421075

My SIL has forbidden my soon to be 17 DN to drive until they are 21. I'm increasingly thinking she is right. She is a paediatrician and not ignorant of teen brain development. AIBU?

It’s not up to you.

To be clear, you can decide you won’t fund your DS until 18.5, but at 18 he’s an adult and if he chooses to learn to drive it’s not your decision to make.

This whole thread is a great example of parents just not understanding children becoming adults and that you can control what resources you gift to another adult, but not control them.

I don’t think many 17 year olds can afford lessons/ a car/ insurance etc. So some parental help is necessary even if they fund some of it themselves. If parents choose to delay that help until 18 then that’s fair enough.

I do wish the government would do more. The system in other countries where they can’t take passengers and have a black box for a year is sensible and I’d be supportive of that.

The facts are that every year lots of teenagers die in car accidents and unfortunately it is mainly boys (and groups of boys) and we should be doing something as a country to reduce that.

What’s interesting from this thread is the assumption that because boys particularly but all 17-24s are the biggest group in fatal crashes, and that many assume its maturity levels that’s the factor, so delaying learning to drive until 18 (or older) would fix that. It’s also lack of experience- the more you drive the safer you get. Pushing learning to drive until 18 wouldn’t fix that, only push back a year of experience and mean for many young people, have a year less of practice driving around the local area on short trips in light traffic before 18 and commuting in rush hour to work.

I say this because all of the people I know who learned later than 20 did so because they’d need to drive for work, so they went straight into daily busy roads driving to commute, usually on their own in the car.

If we’re going to add restrictions on the first year you learn to drive, then that has to be for everyone’s first year, not just if you learn at 17. I’d always be more confident with a 20 year old driver who passed their test at 17 and has been driving regularly since, than someone who’s 28 and only passed their test a week ago.

It is if they're paying for the lessons which I presume they are. Not many 17 year olds that can afford £40 p/h driving lessons.

It's expensive learning to drive.

I think they can spend a year 17-18 practicing and getting experience and maybe a minimum amount of hours of lessons. Then take their test from 18 with restrictions on passengers and a black box for the first year. ( I know this won’t happen).

I understand they need the experience- so yes, start practicing at 17. But my argument is that the brain and frontal lobe isn’t sufficiently developed at this age. In terms of impulsivity and risk taking. Therefore groups of 17 year old boys driving around having recently passed their test after a few months is never going to be a good thing.

I think 21 is too late tbh.

I learnt at 22/23 (because I had to self fund) and by that time it meant I was missing out on graduate jobs and schemes that needed a car.

Because of this, I’ve said that when my kids get to that age, I will be doing my best to get them lessons. Obviously this is only if they are sensible.

I think I would be ok with a law regarding not driving with other teenagers in the back etc for the first year or 2 years etc. But then also tbh it was also great to have my best friend at uni drive us places. Maybe until they are 18?

The only person I have know personally to sadly die in a car crash was in her 40s. Police think she fell asleep at the wheel.

I also don’t think the pass plus for motorway lessons should be optional. I’m glad I did it.

I would agree with this. I passed my test at 23 but didn’t get a car until 27, and very much lacked in confidence and made silly mistakes until I got more experience.

That was really in response to people suggesting my SIL is being ridiculous and that DN can do what he likes as an adult. . DN has a part time job in a restaurant but I doubt it would pay for lessons and he’d not have a car to practise in. Perhaps if h3 had @ real need to drive SIL would feel differently but at present he doesn’t.

I do wonder whether when 17 year olds learn and pass very quickly they might fall into the way of thinking there’s nothing to this driving lark.

A friend’s son was caught speeding within months of passing his test at 17. He should by rights have lost his licence, but his DM said it was her driving and took the points.

I passed my test (not the first time) at 26 after three years of learning, by that time I’d had way more behind the wheel, on the road experience than the average 17 year old first time passer, and I couldn’t wait to get behind the wheel on my own. Even went on motorways not long after passing though had not driven on them before.

I think the 17 year olds i know that do pass quickly due to need understand the value and importance of having their freedom so are responsible. Obviously there are those that do not but both dc knew what a difference driving would make to them and to me.

You just need to research the facts - newly qualified drivers with a car full of passengers are four times as likely to be involved in a car crash. So put in laws around passengers for the first year.

The 17-24 age group are statistically the most likely to cause a car accident with boys/men over represented. This is because they are more likely to engage in risky, thrill seeking behaviour, speeding and aggressive driving. I’d argue this is due to brains not being fully developed.

I don’t think inexperience accounts for all of this…there are other factors coming in to play. And we could change the laws to reduce these accidents.

Again, that's not practical for those living in much of Scotland. Even for those living on the mainland, it takes up to 5 hours to drive to the most northerly motorway, which begins at Perth. From the islands, it would take longer still.

My son has been taking junior lessons since he was 14…I’d rather be in car with him driving than my husband.

Age is irrelevant, it’s down to maturity and experience.

In Sweden, according to a Swedish friend, if the driver is found to be over the alcohol limit, anyone else in the car who has a driving licence, will incur the same penalty as the driver.
That is surely so entirely sensible. The same should apply to drug use here, as I gather many drivers - especially younger ones - now fail cannabis/cocaine tests.

They should also limit the engine size of the cars under 21s drive or anyone older that has been driving for less than a year. It's too easy for them to get a contract on a massive BMW with no experience under their belt.

Doubt many 18 year olds can drive unless they've had their cars bought for them and insurance paid for them.

I have mixed views on this. I don't think the question of 17 or 18 or some other age as a minimum may be the right question to ask.

Graduated licences need to be enforceable in a simple way, with the penalty (say a three year ban) being sufficient of a deterrent. You should not have to wait months for a court hearing (recently Emma Watson was banned, nine months after the offences were committed). There needs to be an instant suspension of a licence (also with drink or drug drivers) with the case heard in a short space of time.

One possible collateral impact of my view there should be two classes of car licences (SUVs and high performance cars being the second), and this could reduce some boy racers.

Time restrictions such as on night driving almost rule out the use of a car even for standard 9 to 5 jobs, partly because we still have the unacceptable changing of clocks twice a year.

This happens in France currently, you can’t drive normal cars until 18 but some very small engined cars can be driven from 16.

However this would be a very very temporary solution as you don’t really have different “small engines” for electric cars. There’s going to be no new ICE cars sold in 5 years time. If you’ve got a preschooler now, it’s unlikely they’ll drive a petrol car (unless you are a “classic car” enthusiast).

Maybe instead of a night time ban on driving it should be after a certain time - say 9pm. That would avoid the late night risky behaviour and potential driving back from parties with alcohol.

Yes again another country that has better and more sensible rules around this.

Surely the issue is boys showing off to their friends rather than inexperience? These kind of awful total wipeouts always seem to occur on fast A roads with hazards like corners and walls and trees, rather than in towns where the boy/girl may have made a mistake at traffic lights, or stalled mid pulling out from a junction etc.

So focusing on reducing that opportunity to show off to peers seems like the most sensible approach.

Op you are right but we hoping our daughter does get driving. She 19 now. But for jobs etc you are more flexible than relying on buses.. Our niece doing lessons at 17 half but they live rural so thats reason for her to get driving