To think 17 is too young to drive

[KimberleyClark]

Three teenage boys (described as mid teens by police have been killed in a crash in the Highlands). I cannot begin to imagine what their parents are going through.

https://news.sky.com/story/three-teenage-boys-killed-in-highlands-car-crash-13421075

My SIL has forbidden my soon to be 17 DN to drive until they are 21. I'm increasingly thinking she is right. She is a paediatrician and not ignorant of teen brain development. AIBU?

Well, a total ban on 17yo's taking passengers would mean a 17yo couldn't repay their parents for years of driving them around.

Or if you restrict it to other young people, it'd mean a 17yo who is married can't drive their husband/wife. If they have a kid they can't drive them. Or if they help their parents care for their sibling, they can't drive them.

I think we'd end up adding a load of edge-cases which would make it rather complex. Though to be clear, I'm not saying we shouldn't bother, just that it's not as simple as "young folk shouldn't be allowed passengers"

Also, I wonder if in a few years, we'll end up with these "rules" driven by insurance companies rather than the government. Similar to the "black-box" insurance policies which are cheaper for many young people if they don't accelerate hard/brake hard/speed/etc, will we end up with some insurance companies offering cheaper insurance in return for a camera + microphone in the car feeding some AI to gauge the riskiness of any potentially-distracting behaviour?

Nope they can drive with adults. Just not car loads of other teenagers. Other countries manage it - it’s quite simple.

Not many 17 year olds are married with kids….so no I don’t buy that argument.

Not sure if you are saying the black box is good or not but anything that reduces risk taking behaviour, speeding and accidents is good in my view.

It would be relatively easy to have an exemption to a passenger ban to immediate family (i.e siblings and their own children)

Your SIL is ridiculous. There are plenty of dangerous drivers out there of all ages.
My naighbour's daughter is 18, passed her test at 17 and a few months. She currently drives around the community in her role as a carer for the elderly and disabled. If she loses her license she has no job. She is a very mature girl and a good driver. Not all teenagers are joy riders.

I know in Australia P plates aren't issued until 18 years, you must complete at least 120 hours of supervised driving including 20 hours of night driving.
If you are under 25 years of age and on your P plates you must not drive with more then one passenger that is under 21.
P1 drivers can't drive between the hours of 11pm and 5am

I can’t see any viable arguments against that…

So, you've not read any of the other posts on the last 9 pages then ?
You are just posting post after post after post, without taking any heed of all the perfectly valid arguments so many posters have put forward?

I’ve always thought 17 was random and it should at least be 18 but whilst i learned to drive at 17 i didn’t pass my test until just after my 18th birthday. I have only had a couple of accidents and it’s been other people hitting me (one whilst my car was parked and one not stopping at a give way)

sadly groups of teenagers are most at risk. They don’t have any fear and think they are invincible and will likely egg each other one but you also get older people who drive like that and don’t care. Or elderly people who drive the wrong way and are a danger. Driving isn’t safe but i want mine to have the option and freedom it brings as adults and i want them to be drive safely as all you can do is be as safe as possible you can’t change how others drive and they won’t be allowed in the car with a group of their friends or to drive from parties etc i initially

I read a book recently called Raising Boys by Steve Biddulph. In it he references the dangers of driving, but the worst aspect is when they drive with others in the car, especially in the passenger seat, compared to driving alone. Boys in particular want to show off and impress at the same time as driving, but when young their brain is not yet developed enough to focus on all of these at the same time. I had no idea of the statistics which are horrifying until I read the book.

I was reading the account from the mother of one of the teenage boys who died recently in an accident with friends. One of them had passed his test a month earlier so very new driver. They were recording it or snap chatting (the passengers). Apparently she could hear her son saying ‘slow down you’re going too fast’. And the driver says ‘It’s fine mate I know these roads really well’. Took the corner too fast and all three dead.

Pure showing off and risk taking. So heartbreaking that his friends were scared and telling him to slow down.

Sorry what is the argument that says groups of teenagers need to drive around together?

I haven’t seen it. Alone fine. With adults fine.

Again, another country with more sensible laws than us. I don’t know why some posters are against this.

Well, call me fickle, but I'd rather not have a phone call from a police station 250 miles away to say DD has been arrested for driving without insurance as the insurance company randomly cancelled her insurance. And it was her decision to pay more and her money.

My son learned and passed his test at 17. I would not put him on my insurance. He was lucky and was given an old Polo by my brother which had been in the family for years. It cost me a lot, but I started his own policy and told him that if he messed up his own no claims bonus, he could forget driving. All his friends - driving on their mothers' policies - wrapped up their cars within 3 months. I'm not saying I was happy about him driving, but I put the burden of keeping the car on him.

Here in Ireland, a 16yr old can pass a theory test to drive a Tractor with zero driving lessons or a driving test and is allowed to drive the Tractor on main roads with no supervision. Bloody ridiculous in my view!

I live rurally and the Tractors that some of them drive are extremely powerful and there have been numerous accidents involving young teens. Often it’s driving the tractor on an incline in a field and it rolling over.

They’ve changed the law now but about 20 years ago when my friend’s son was 17, he was allowed to drive a car with L plates and on a provisional driving licence, completely alone and never having taken a driving lesson in his life. !!

its sounds like you haven’t had a black box or any experience of it and neither has your DD due to believing rumours. We spoke at great lengths to an insurance a broker about this. You have do a lot of damage by speeding or using your phone multiple times to get your insurance cancelled. Even then you get a fine first and then adequate notice by email if you do it again. We took her out in her car weekly, even daily so that wasn’t an issue.

We had a black box on our main car when dd first passed as it got cheaper insurance. Never had any problems with it - a report at the end of each month and we got a bonus if we scored less than a certain amount, which we normally did.

I think dd's still got a black box on her car now, although I'm not certain. It also adds a layer of reassurance because if the black box monitoring thought she'd had an accident due to speed of stop/turned over etc then they automatically phoned us. We never had to test that one though.

The cause of death was inexperience not age. At some point no matter what age when you are a new driver you are inexperienced until you gain experience. An older adult could have misjudged the road conditions in the same way. You are taught when learning to drive about stopping distances and speed in different conditions. Today there is a theory test (I didn’t have one) that will ask these questions. Infact one half of the test is about hazards.

I’m all for extra measures and laws to make inexperienced drivers safer to themselves and others but I’m just not seeing what has changed since I was 17 that means 17 is no longer the right age to be learning to drive .

There are so many benefits. We used a well known Orange brand. Started it when she was learning to drive so she doesn't know anything else. Her score is constantly in the 90s out of 100, when I drive her car I'm so aware of the box I'm also on my best behaviour. At first DD did push back on it but we are coming up to her renewal and she's decided she is going to stick with the box so more funds to go travelling. She doesn't drive to outside our town a lot, work, her horse and to the shops and we are fine with that.

It absolutely depends on individuals and their understanding and propensity for risk taking. My 17 year old is rule driven, and a more careful and rule abiding driver than his parents!

It's really not that hard though - we have peer passenger restrictions for new drivers here - which restrict the number of young passengers (doesn't apply to older adults) with exceptions for spouses and siblings, and workplace exemptions which require transporting people (i.e emergency services).

I'm blown away by some of the opinions on here. Ban them, make it 25. No passengers etc. How about encouraging people who are developing into adults to learn how to handle a car and practice responsibility? My grandfather taught me to drive when I was 14, 15 off road in a very safe environment. I learnt how to handle a car skidding. By the time I took my test at 17 I'd been taught on a quiet country road what it feels like to have a car aquaplane in a puddle and how you lose steering if you try and brake on black ice. Whatever age you start driving you really need to have it drummed into you that you're in charge of a dangerous piece of machinery. In my experience it's those who are never shown how it can go wrong early that get themselves into dangerous situations. The most unsafe I've ever felt in a car is with someone who started driving later in life.