Money 'borrowed'

[Alice19876]

I got married three years ago. To my husband who is a tradie who works hard for our family while I stay home with our twins who are 18 months old.
I am very lucky to be a stay at home mom and my husband works very hard to provide for us we don't live beyond our means and have one holiday abroad a year and one year in England.
when we got engaged we planned a Cyprus wedding but due to Covid that fell apart and we lost about 1.5k in deposits.
due to this we decided to have a cheap uk wedding in December in a beautiful venue that does packages nothing I don't regret. Now here comes the issue, I'm an only child and when my parents were there during my engagement they was over the moon for me they even offered 10k to get married abroad and I was shocked but so thankful. But obviously due to Covid the wedding abroad it never went ahead. Since we moved the wedding to the uk and it coming a lot more my parents said it was ok the budget was still the same. While we paid other fees. ,then they made changes to the wedding ie the evening wedding food was a basic package but my dad wanted the upgrade to a hog roast which was 1.5k including other changes, my wedding dress they said not to worry so we went shopping for my dress I found a lovely one for £800 but my mom made me try on a 2.5k dress with a 1k veil and extras. But they reassured me, I'm their only child and little girl it's okay. Then added extras as their friends are coming, a harpist which they wanted etc so it came about 10k but we put the rest.

happy wedding and all good until yesterday. My parents informed me the wedding money they 'loaned' me they need back in a year. It wasn't ever a loan and I'm shocked. It's been 3 years and never mentioned once. My dad is taking early retirement this year which I don't blame him but they want the money to go on a cruise. As I mentioned I'm a stay at home mom to twins and also now another baby on the way. Where do I get this money from? When all along for 3 years plus the year before telling me not to worry. I feel sick, I have such a good relationship with my parents so I don't want this to affect our relationship. But I don't have a spare 10k they told me I shouldn't have gone on holiday this year and gave them the money instead but they have never mentioned this before!? If it was a loan it would've been paid back since we first got married. I can't sleep as I'm so worried. Aibu? Do I just take a loan out?

Ask your Mum to point you to messages and correspondence where they’ve stated it was a loan.

I am so very sorry for you.
I gave my daughter money for her wedding.. ALL parents do!.. she is one of five, and I would never demand money back from any of them unless I had made it very clear it was a loan, and the repayment time stated and agreed.
And another thing, £100 gift card for an only daughter.. that is embarrassingly mean, its the sort of amount you give to a friend's child...I wonder how they would feel if you mentioned it to their friends
!t doesnt sound as if they are scrimping but if they've got the cruise bug its an expensive addiction so you can expect more pressure

I dont like your parents.

The holidays we've been on were to Devon in a caravan and then Menorca. Nothing flash really compared to their holidays.

I wasn't expecting any gift when I knew how much they paid but I remember them saying 'treat yourself to a meal on us' it was one of them restaurant gift cards.

also very generous with children we never asked for a penny but packages would come weekly from them with ordering stuff online for the babies and also bought the pram, which I didn't know about until I got to my parents house.

I'm honestly trying to think, we don't see them much unless I visit them but they are also on holiday a lot, working or busy going out.
im baffled also why it's taken them 3 years to mention in.
my parents are 60-61 and both on the same page.

If you must pay them. Work out what your budget would have been.
They can pay for all the extras they insisted on.
Best of luck.
Cant believe they are willing to damage your relationship just so they can get their cruise.

I agree with you @Mummyofmaniacs I have only just given £100 each to my DC to help with some unexpected costs. No decent parents would come back three years after their only DC’s wedding claiming that money they gifted was only a loan and saying £100 was the gift.

It is especially selfish knowing that OP is unable to work and is at home with their tiny DGC, just so they can go on another cruise!

OP I really think you need to get proper legal advice as a priority, and don’t pay them a penny in the meantime because if they decide on small claims court any repayment could be seen as confirmation that the money was regarded as a loan. And check that there is nothing in writing that could possibly be taken as confirmation that you were required to pay the money back - did they confirm the cost of the various goods and services with you as they bought them or did they just pay and not mention any of the cost until now ? If there was any confirmation how was it worded ?

It sounds as though they’re putting the pressure on now if you’ve had missed calls in quick succession, and I think you’re going to have to be firm that you don’t intend to pay them anything, and that they will have to pursue it through small claims - and even then you can’t give them what you don’t have.

I think a solicitor will tell you that they have no case unless there was a clear, written agreement that the money was a loan at the time of payment. If no loan agreement was made at the time, and no written intention for it to be a loan was recorded, it was a gift, and they cannot later change this to demand repayment. I think the fact that they paid directly for goods and services instead of paying you a lump sum will work for you, and if you have a record of payments made I would make these available to a solicitor.

Aside from the legal bit, there is the matter of your relationship with them. To put it bluntly your relationship has been irreparably damaged anyway because of their frankly appalling behaviour, so l wouldn’t let any consideration of your future relationship influence your decision either way.

Suddenly it’s a loan after 3 years?? Absolutely not; write the detailed letter/account someone mentioned above then just reply “take us to court’ afterwards. Block your mum’s number for a while now to give your head peace.

hi op, I can see you’re received lots of replies, I haven’t read all of them so I’m probably going to repeat what some of the others have said but here goes:

I don’t think your parents had intended the money to be a loan. They probably didn’t really think things through, they got excited about their ‘little girl’ getting married and offered you the money. Now that they want to go on a cruise they may not be able to afford, they are ‘resentful’ that you went on holiday abroad whilst they can’t go on a cruise as they gave you their money. Perhaps they feel that you mislead them, you told them you didn’t have money for the wedding when in fact you can afford to holiday abroad and to be a SAHM who doesn’t intend to return to work (as you mentioned you are pregnant again). Of course I don’t agree with them, but it may help explain why they suddenly changed their mind.

Legally, they have no leg to stand on if there’s no written evidence that the money was a loan. I know this because I have dealt with similar situations. But, of course, the reason you’re writing is not because you’re concerned about court action…

If I was you, my ‘pride’ would not allow me to keep money which was not gifted to me from the heart. What would be ‘fair’ in my eyes would be to tell your parents that, had you known the money was a loan, you would have had a much cheaper wedding. Calculate what you would have actually spent on your wedding and that amount can be treated as a loan. The rest is their cost. Offer to pay them in affordable instalments or you could borrow money and pay them a lump sum, but this amount would be lower than what you actually ‘owe’ them, to take into account the interest you’ll have to pay to the bank. So, for example, if you agree that you ‘owe’ them £5k, but borrowing £3k will mean that you repay £5k to the bank, then your parents will only get £3k as a lump sum and consider the entire ‘debt’ paid.

I would pay them and then I’d reduce contact with them. I couldn’t recover from this. It’s one thing for them to regret giving you the money and another to act on it. So disappointing

Oh, and also, your parents indicated that they would have only gifted you £100 for your wedding?! Shocking. I would have found this so upsetting.

Edited to say that I’ve just seen your update that they can actually afford the cruise and they are pestering you with calls. Wow, how ugly on their part :(.
Please don’t pay money to get legal advice, if you can get free advice then fine, if not don’t waste your money. It’s as simple as this- if there’s no evidence the money was a loan, the case will be thrown out of court.
I dealt with a case where a man gave his girlfriend 7k (at her request, over a period of time). The couple then split up. The man asked for the money back. She claimed it was a gift. Common sense indicated the money was a loan but, wirh no evidence, the judge could not grant a judgement in his favour.
In your case it’s even more likely the money would be considered a gift as the parents of the pride often pay or contribute to the wedding.

@Alice19876 also, if it was a loan, surely they would have agreed repayment terms at the time?

I borrowed money off my parents to buy a car and agreed at the time how much a month to pay back and that it was interest free.

I'm so sorry OP, I fear your relationship with your parents is damaged but it's not because of you, its because of them. You don't owe them a penny.

I think @Rosscameasdoody is correct, I thought perhaps if affordable you could pay them back apart from the extras they insisted on, but I agree that could be seen as admitting it was a loan. I think you are very wise to seek legal advice.

Just to say as a mother myself my heart goes out to you, this is one of the most ungenerous and unkind things I have ever heard.

Sorry OP - your parents behaviour is utterly shocking!!!

The fact they want the money back for a cruise is absolutely beyond belief

As others have said - do not pay it back

Don't accept any more presents @Alice19876 You will get an invoice in three years!

£50 a month is generous. Id be offering £20.

She said in the OP she was an only child.

Shocking. I know where your coming from, my Dad's pulled similar tricks to this before. Not to the extent yours have. Unbelievable. In my case his 'generosity' were big public gestures which in time and privately were recalled. It makes him look good, makes me feel like I'm ungrateful.

Do not pay them a penny. Paying them anything "back" will then confirm it was a loan, and if they take you to small claims court then you may well end up having to pay them all of it.

I'd be firm with them, that they had never once mentioned that this was a loan, and you would never have agreed to taking a loan from them. You were happy with the wedding you had planned and it was THEM who insisted on the expensive upgrades. I'd simply say that because they had not told you this, and you had never even asked for the money as you were happy with a simpler wedding, and that it was their decision to pay suppliers that they wanted directly, you will not be paying them back the money, both because you never agreed to a loan, and secondly because you do not have the financial means to do so.

Then I'd enter into no further discussion with them over it. If they take you to Small Claims, make sure you've looked back through all communications with them over the wedding and that there's nothing that can be seen as you agreeing to a loan from them. If there's anything saying "I'm happy with the £800 dress, and your mum insisting on the £3.5 outfit", then keep things like that as evidence.

I'd absolutely not pay them back out of principle.

No no, if she starts paying anything back, if they take her to court, it'll then confirm that it was a loan. It wasn't a loan, so she shouldn't pay them back a penny.

Fair point.

op, if your parents ever bring you or your little ones any presents make sure to ask them if these are gifts or have to be repaid, and point out that if you have to pay for the ‘presents’ you wouldn’t be able to accept them. Let them see for themselves how ridiculous they are

Glad you posted on here OP rather than just agree to pay. 3 missed calls!! They have gone bonkers for whatever reason. They honestly sound so awful doing this, have already commented but am still seething on your behalf.
It's horribly upsetting to have conflict with family but you are 100% in the right here so stay calm and keep being clear that it was always offered as a gift in spite of what they are now trying to tell themselves and you won't be paying it back. They don't particularly sound like engaged grandparents either tbh if you hardly see them, who even thinks it should be you travelling to them with baby twins??
Maybe get your DH to deal with them.

Your parents voluntarily paid for those things for your wedding. They sound a bit controlling, especially with what you've said about them buying a pram and other baby paraphernalia.
My guess is that your dad isn't getting as big a pension lump sum / annual pension as he thought he would, probably with going early, so he's decided to call in a debt which has no right to be one.
Watch it, because they'll be after the pram money next if you cave over wedding money.

I would cut them off. Block them on phones and social media, don't answer the door unless you know who it is. Their behaviour is appalling and they don't deserve to have a daughter and grandchildren. If you go NC you eradicate the stress. OP even if you paid them, even if they suddenly change their minds when they realise what is at stake, you will feel betrayed. Cut them out of your lives.

I’d be itemising the stuff they insisted on adding as extras that I was only in agreement with because they were paying - harp player, hog roast, extra guests … not sure about full cost of wedding dress but certainly consider it - showing what the extra cost added by them was, and then pay them what’s left.

It’s them not you that’s affecting your relationship with them, by putting all this pressure on you out of no where, and apparently a cruise is more important to them than their own (and only) daughter.

Actually, do they have a habit of needing to be ‘keeping up with the Joneses’? Seems they wanted to move away from the budget wedding you were more than happy with by adding upgrades and extras with their friends coming? Is this compulsory cruise with friends? Or have the friends been on one similar and they feel the need to match that? Actually, are they ok? Is this usual behaviour for them?

IF you maintain a relationship with your parents, I would be exceedingly wary of ANYTHING they offer to pay for in the future - from a simple meal out to college fees for the grand children - I’d want to pay my own way, and anything over a couple of hundred quid I’d be getting in writing it was a gift for fear it was going to be thrown back in my face in an unknown amount of years to come.

I’m so so sorry you’re experiencing this. Sending love and strength to you.