To think that paying for airplane seats has broken air travel for families?

[raggedymum]

I just get so stressed when I see anything about plane seat issues - everyone is all "you should pay" but it doesn't take into account all the things that can go wrong, and there is now zero compassion or willingness to shift from other passengers. And somewhat reasonably, as they have paid for their seats!

I'm still traumatised from 6-leg (3 each way) flight last year with DH and then-10yo DD, where despite paying close to £1K to select seats (for very tall DH to get extra legroom and make sure the family was sat together), we sat together on only 1 of the 6 legs. First leg was fine. Second leg - long haul - 2 of the 3 seats we had booked were literally broken and NO ONE could sit there. It took ages for the flight attendants to find anyone willing to move to allow me and DD to sit next to each other for the 8-hour flight. DD (probably ND, we're looking into it), not having flown since she was 4 before the pandemic, was in tears and terrified. At least DH got his extra legroom in the non-broken original seat. Then, that flight encountered weather and we missed the connection. So obviously we didn't have the seats we had paid for on the flight that left before we got off the plane. Again, massive difficulty to find anywhere to get even two seats together. I managed to get behind DD (aisle seats - yet the middles next to us didn't want to move to an aisle to allow us to sit together - I have actually seen threads from people explaining that they chose such on purpose...). Return journey they had overbooked the plane and printed boarding passes with our seats for multiple people. Again, lots of angst but we got DD and me next to each other (and DD absolutely in a panic remembering the problems on the flight over, and me not so far behind). Weather again, and despite actually making the connection, we got there so late they had removed our seats from the system and put other people in them. This time DH was crunched in a regular seat and we did manage to get me and DD together in some middle seats. Final leg the plane was a different type than planned, so at least nobody had seats they had booked, although people still insisted on their seat if they existed in this plane. Again, couldn't get three together and lots of difficulty over arranging for me and DD together. Didn't help that DD was a very tall 10yo (see tall DH...) and people seemed to think she was a stroppy teen and not a panicking possibly-ND 10yo at the end of a very long series of flights.

I'm grateful that I managed to get next to DD on all but one of the legs, but it was so incredibly stressful that I have a panic response at the thought of flying long-haul again, making me really not want to visit family overseas anytime soon...

I completely understand that people don't want to give up seats they may have paid £100+ for. But the fact that everybody pays for very specific seats now means that the gate staff can't shift people who haven't yet checked in around (while keeping groups together) like they used to, to help sort out groups broken up for various reasons. And there is no sympathy because "you should have paid" even when you DID pay (a lot!).

I wonder if instead of picking specific seats, you could pay for "3 seats together with extra legroom", "an aisle seat in cheap economy", etc. I guess that would be much harder for the airlines to sort and figure out if they even could sell that combination, instead of just showing the little maps you select from.

It usually is absolutely fine if you may and I’ve always got seats nearby, usually next to whoever I’m going with without paying too (Ryan air I always paid because dd1 has asd but now she’s grown up and doesn’t come) dh also has got his precious window seat for free every time since covid, annoying! I prefer aisles

Sometimes. I know some US airports offer sunflower lanyards at their information desks. OP it's worth talking to the gate agents explaining you need early boarding/seats together. It's a lot easier to get things sorted before you get on the plane.

Also, complain to the airline to get your seat booking fees back.

@MissScarletInTheBallroom

in theory you can take ships - i highly recommend the Queen Mary 2 to get to New York, you can even book your dog a kennel on board (we did fly back)

I do - for some reason when travelling with my parents I was put on standby by myself twice, placed in an aisle behind them once and we were nearly bumped off the 3 of us twice.

never had those issues with booking seats and she should be able to claim back the seat proce

I do think there is a way back if we flip it round, as per my suggestion above. So instead of people paying to select their seats, people get a discount for being willing to sit anywhere.

Any booking which includes children should either not offer discounted tickets, or should only offer however many discounted tickets that would still allow each child on the booking to be sat with an adult. (If you have one adult and one or more children, no discounted tickets are available, if you have two adults and one child, one discounted ticket is available, and if you have two or more adults and two or more children you can only buy a discounted ticket for the number of adults exceeding the number of children in your group, so if you have three adults and two children you can select a discounted ticket for one of the adults if you wish.)

Your couple in this scenario could both select discounted tickets for sitting apart.

Oh my goodness @raggedymum that does sound awful. However, I hope that was just a chain of bad luck that never happens again.

On the whole I think the current system works. I typically travel twice a week on orange planes and I appreciate being able to have an aisle seat (long legs) near the front (speedy exit with no hold luggage) and I am happy to pay for that.

I am definitely not putting OP into this bracket, but my experience is typically of groups including extended family members who have booked the cheapest seats possible (fair enough) and checked in at the last minute, who then bad mouth those who were organised enough to book their seats and are allowed to board first, but still expect those same people to give up their paid-for seats to allow them to sit together at the front of the plane rather than split up at the back of the plane in the seats that were left when they checked in at the last minute.

Sorry, I will give up my seat for a broadly equivalent one (ideally still an aisle seat, definitely one not too far from the front) but I am not agreeing to move to a window seat ten rows back just because someone who wasn't organised enough doesn't want that seat.

The worst case I had was the couple who were allocated the two seats next to me and very vocally demanded that I move to the back of the plane so their child could sit with them rather than sitting alone, and couldn't (or wouldn't) get their head around the idea that one of them could swap seats with their child.

And if you don't happen to be travelling to New York? The world outside Europe is a big place.

Strange comment...lots and lots of places are not served by direct flights to lots and lots of other places.

YABU. The issue was the routing - 3 flights just to go on holidays? Madness! Simplify next time, particularly around those tight connections.

Ds and a friend flew London to Scotland and could chose their seat for free. I was surprised!

They sat together up there and sat separately on the way back (could chose seat but not 2 together) but didn’t care.

I agree that somewhere something has gone wrong. Trying to have cheaper prices has actually added extra costs and then you don’t get what you’ve paid for. Whereas previously you just got the desk and booked in and rarely ever sat separately (IME) from at least 1 of the children even if you couldn’t sit as a family.

When ds was a child I use to contact airline as he’s disabled and we booked special assistance and we were always say together, if your DD is ND that may be an option for you?

Perhaps her in laws should just move to the UK.

It depends on the airline. Some do, some don’t. BA refund seat fees if you aren’t able to use the seat you reserved (due to a change of plane, broken seat etc).

The trouble is they are all competing for the lowest headline price. That is what sells, especially now there are so many price comparison sites and brokers.

A lot of these threads understandably end up as a pile on of the airlines but the reality is nearly half a century ago now, maybe more the marketers at the LoCos sussed out human nature and the attraction of unbundled fares...and I don't think there is any way back.

And @notimagain a lot of posters forget - or probably never knew - what flying was like before the low-cost airlines did this unbundling.

Flying was expensive, and probably beyond affordability for most posters who complain about airlines' practices now. Flights also didn't go to all the places they go to now, and hardly so frequently.

The unbundling of costs of flying has democratised flying and enabled many more people to afford "foreign" holidays in a way that before the 1990s just wasn't affordable for most people.

I was in a big family raised in the 1960s, and we went abroad a lot - this was before mass package holidays, and charter flights. We drove to my family's villa, staying with friends in Europe along the way. That was part of the fun!

It is possible for airlines to automatically seat people booked together together--Air New Zealand have this policy, even for adults on the same booking.

As for everyone saying "oh, but you have been very unlucky"--this is normal in long haul travel now. I travel long haul for work 2-3 times a year, and since COVID I have not had one single long haul flight (where I am requires at least one connection and often more) where there has not been some fuck up. The OPs experience is way more typical outside of EU/UK than you might think (EU/UK being incentivised not to fuck up by having some level of passenger rights).

OP, Heathrow have sunflower lanyards for free. Not sure how well recognised they are in the US, but they are a real godsend with my ND kids.

So you'll swap when you don't have any specific requirements, like being next to your daughter.

When people have specific requirements, they pay for a seat.

When people don't care where they sit, they don't pay.

If nobody had to pay, the two groups would still be the same - people who want a specific seat and won't move if they get it, and people who don't care and will move.

Paying makes no difference.

I really think that when you select the option to pay to choose your seat there should be a pop up which says, "Paying to select your seat does not guarantee that you will actually be able to sit in that seat, and cabin crew may require you to move to any other seat for any reason, including to a middle seat in the back row away from your travelling companions and you will not be offered any compensation if this happens. Do you wish to proceed?" and you should have to click on, "Yes, that's fine, would you like me to give you my firstborn child and make you a sandwich as well?" or, "No, fuck that for a game of soldiers."

The problem is that the air travel industry isn't governed by any particular legal jurisdiction.so they tend to do whatever the fuck they want. The EU has managed to clamp down on certain unfair practices by putting in place rules around things like compensation for delay and disruption, they could probably do something about this too. Would be convenient for me because all my plane journeys start or end in the EU, but might not be much help to the OP.

It would make a difference to me.

I'd be much more willing to move if my only reason for being in that particular seat was "because I want it" rather than "because I want it and have paid a lot of money for it".

That sounds like a very stressful journey OP. And such a shame people feel the need to be so horrible about it although I do think it's awful that airlines put anytime in those circumstances to begin with.

I think the pressure for people to book seats causes a lot of problems which increases the need for others to book a seat (although not because they actually want to book any particular seat) and so the whole 'need' to do so it's only driven by the initial few who care and disappointing to many.

I like the previously suggested idea of entering booking preferences for on trains for the software to determine the best seating. However, I can't see the system going back to all in prices.

As things stand I would be very supportive of tiered booking 'bands' like:

• No additional cost = happy to sit anywhere, next to anyone
  Or = children primary aged and under next to an adult in the same booking seats not selectable

• Small additional cost = for the booking to be seated as a group (but seats not selectable)

• Cost per seat choice = seat selection to sit where each person wants (with supply and demand seat specific pricing?)

Sorry - I pressed enter too soon, so I am editing this post.

Back when I was a teen, in the 80s, air travel was too expensive for a lot of people. It is cheaper now, and part of that is the airlines making things like seat selection, hold baggage, food/snacks extras that you can choose to pay for if you want them, but aren’t bundled into the ticket price as they used to be.

So on the one hand, the current system has made air travel possible for a lot more people including families, but on the other hand it has created problems such as the ones you had, @raggedymum.

I’m honestly not sure what the answer is, other than regulatory bodies saying that children under a particular age must be sat with a parent/accompanying adult, and this means in the same row, next to each other or only separated by the aisle.

What if the reason for the trip is to visit family who live in another country?...as the OP has stated.

I don't agree but don't see any point in us keep exchanging the same opinions! Maybe airlines will go back to free seat choice and we can see who was right.

What a strange comment, it could be many places. My DS lives with his family in Omaha, Nebraska.
Three flights minimum from the North East of England, flying to LHR or Amsterdam Schipol, then a flight to Chicago and then a domestic flight to Omaha.

Similar with our flights to Tasmania, North East to London or Schipol, flight to Dubai, on to Sydney and a domestic flight to Tassie. ( 4 flights)

There must be other families with similar flight changes.

The problem is that the air travel industry isn't governed by any particular legal jurisdiction.so they tend to do whatever the fuck they want

That's not quite correct though is it?

There's a tremendous amount of legislation, conventiond etc that means airlines can't just do "whatever the fuck they want", but a lot of it is at national or regional level so yes there can be significant differences...

When it comes to moving people around you'll never ever be able to guarantee that people won't or can't be moved from their booked seats, because sometimes operational requirements may demand it (load, balance,.inop.seats, etc).

Well, apparently in the US overbooking now includes selling the SAME seats to people. So paying for them didn't help.