To have organised a 40th birthday party for me and my twin?

[loonyloo]

I've just had an argument with my lifelong friend about this.

I have a twin brother. We turned 40 a couple of weeks ago. I wanted a big party as it's a big milestone. I don't think that's unusual. I told my brother a few months ago that I wanted the party. He said that he didn't want a big fuss and wouldn't come.

I went ahead and organised one. His wife knew and said he'd come. The party came and he didn't show up. I'd assumed he would despite what he'd said. I was really embarrassed in front of all our extended family and friends and upset that he'd let me down. I really thought he'd come. He'd said he hadn't wanted a 21st either but I did, so my mum organised a big party for us. He was a bit grumpy about it, but he did come and enjoyed himself in the end.

I'd told my friend how upset I was about it but she didn't say very much. She can be like that though, she's a bit unfeeling. I saw her on Friday and we ended up having a disagreement about something else that escalated and the subject of the party came up. She said that I was in the wrong for throwing a party for me and my brother. She said if I wanted a party I should've thrown one for myself and not told everyone it was for both of us. She said it was an example of me "always, always having to have things your own fucking way" and that I was selfish.

I'm really upset. I don't think it's selfish of me to want to have a party and I don't see why I shouldn't have one just because my brother doesn't want one. I can't have one just for myself, everyone knows we're twins and it would look weird for me to have a birthday party without him. My friend was really rude today and needs to watch her temper. I'm a really kind person and I think it's not too much to ask for others to put themselves out for me sometimes, but I've been thinking about what my friend said and now I'm worried other people think I was selfish about the party.

He didn’t want a party. He told you that he wouldn’t come, yet you bulldozed ahead and arranged it anyway and now you’re annoyed he didn’t turn up??

I’m afraid I’m with your friend on this one. You sound a bit self-absorbed.

There are many well-known sayings that describe the gap between your self-image and your behaviour - suggesting that your flaws are very normal:

‘the road to hell is paved with good intentions’

’selfish Is as selfish does’ (or insert other characteristic)

Also ‘if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck…’

All of which make the distinction between intention, behaviour and the impact of that behaviour. You may be well-intentioned, so believe yourself to be kind but your behaviour is not kind, it’s impact is hurtful and exasperating, because there’s a gap between basic intention and execution. That gap is you listening to others, respecting them as individuals and giving thought to what they want and would enjoy, then how that can be achieved.

Currently your behaviour is not kind. Its impact on others is positively unkind. That’s not about ‘being a bad person’ it’s about not having developed the skills to achieve the outcome you want - the kind outcome. You have kind intentions - but you haven’t acquired the skills required to BE kind.

From other people’s perspectives, their experience of your actions is as selfish and unkind. A kind person would feel sad for their friend and brother at having affected them this way, so seek to improve their social skills. A self-absorbed, selfish one will just feel sorry for themselves, then self-righteous.

Which one are you?

Why didn’t you just have one for you, not him too? He’s done nothing wrong.

So he told you he wasn't going to come. He told you he didn't want a party. But you invited his friends anyway.

Did you tell them they had been invited to a party that he didn't want? You've probably negatively impacted his friendships with your behaviour. Has that occurred to you?

Your updates just make it worse op. Your friend said no, yet you thought you knew better than her and kept pushing.
Exactly the same as your DB
Your friend was not rude and your DB did not embarrass you. On both of these occasions you were in the wrong

I'm really upset. I don't think it's selfish of me to want to have a party and I don't see why I shouldn't have one just because my brother doesn't want one. I can't have one just for myself, everyone knows we're twins and it would look weird for me to have a birthday party without him. My friend was really rude today and needs to watch her temper. I'm a really kind person and I think it's not too much to ask for others to put themselves out for me sometimes, but I've been thinking about what my friend said and now I'm worried other people think I was selfish about the party.

Your last paragraph says it all. I, l’ve, l’m, me, You asked your brother if he wanted the party. He said no and was clear that if you organised it he wouldn’t turn up. So you went behind his back to his wife and organised it anyway - and even invited his friends - then you were surprised when he didn’t turn up. Have you thought about the impact of that on his friendships with people who now think he couldn’t be bothered with them ? Do they have any idea that he had already declined to attend before they were invited ? How do you plan to put that right ?

These are not the actions of a kind person. Your friend is right. Listen to her. She wasn’t being rude, she was telling you a home truth. You are not seen as the kind person you think you are, but as someone so determined to get their own way that they don’t stop for a second to consider the impact on other people. So yes, you’re right to worry that other people think you selfish, because you are.

Well yes she does have a point. Look, I don't doubt you have good intentions but there seems to be a pattern of behaviour where you decide you know what's best for people and don't accept it when they don't do as you want.

Your brother said he wasn't going to go, then he didn't. It would be different if he said he'd go and didn't turn up but it sounds like he was pretty clear. At 40, twin or not, it's perfectly normal to have your own party.

You sound insufferable and spoilt. He said he didn't want a party and wouldn't come. It's his birthday too not just yours. Your friend has a point

Tbh the ops actions are so like my mothers who likes to be a victim and who likes to stage manage other people that it’s quite triggering. Not helped by the fact I’m holidaying with her at the moment for the first time in 30 years and am realising afresh why I ran far and fst from her 30 years ago.

Did you have the party on your actual birthday?

@loonyloo so you ignored what your brother said and through doing so made an issue in the family with some of it's members. Sounds selfish.

OP this thread, the thing with your friend and the hobby, and then your old thread make me think you mean well but you aren't actively listening to and empathising with people.

If you wanted to, you could read up on and practice active listening skills. Really centre your thoughts and emotions on that person. How they might be feeling, what they actually want, etc.

I am neurodivergent and often will try to relate to people by sharing my own experience on what they're talking about. It's done with good intentions but I know some people don't see the intention behind it and think I'm trying to make the conversation about me. It's a thing I'm aware of and trying to actively work on improving in my conversations with others.

I've also found it really helpful to ask people what they need in a conversation, in a kind tone. Eg what can I do to help, do you need advice, or just an ear to rant and get it off your chest, whatever you need I'm right here. I do this because I often want to actively "sort" and sometimes friends have just wanted me to truly hear them and support them.

For your brother you could have had a wider dialogue about the party instead of just inviting his friends anyway, sending invites with his name on etc. You could have asked him what his ideal scenario was, would he have come to a party that was just for you, so all family there and your friends? He could have attended as a guest and had a nice time? But by roughshodding over his request you likely upset him before the party even came along. I'm quite introverted and hate being centre of a attention. If I was your brother I'd have come to your party to celebrate you and have a lovely time, but not to a joint party is been forced into.

That's a bit of a ramble but I think you do need to reflect a wee bit on all of these interactions and how they look as a wider picture. It sounds like you have nice family and friends around you. Don't feel bad about the party awkwardness. Just use it as a learning situation and move forward.

Not to mention her brothers’ friendships with people who are now wondering why he seemingly snubbed them after they had made the effort for him. If OP is such a kind person how is she going to put that right, given that DB had already told her he wasn’t going to attend before she even invited them ?!!

One of the biggest life lessons I ever learned was just because we assume someone else will love something/ have a great time, doesn’t mean that a) you should force it on them or b) that they will actually enjoy it. Sorry though op

It’s simple Op. You asked your brother, he said he wouldn’t come as didn’t want a big fuss. He didn’t come to the party so was true to his word.
Why are you trying to make this more than it is.
I think you have a problem overstepping boundaries. You need to know when to back off and understand if someone says they don’t want to do something

People are "getting it". He said he wouldn't come but you decided you knew best.

OP my mum is a twin and really struggles with doing things independently.

She recently turned 75 and her and her twin had a day out together on their actual bday but then each held separate parties around the bday month. They each have different tastes. My mum preferred a nice meal with friends and family whilst her twin is very social and held a massive party.

It is possible to be a twin and have your own identity

She sound very similar to you. Always transfers her feelings onto others (ie ‘I would want to do xyz so why wouldn’t everyone else’).

She often buys presents she likes and can’t understand why the recipient might not be as keen because she loved it.

In childhood she pushed me to do swimming because it would be good for me and ‘I would love it. I hated it and resented going.

In adulthood she often talks over me and interrupts with her views and pushes her way rather than really listening to me and what I want.

The worst thing is the lack of awareness of personal space (and I know this is definitely a twin things as I’ve pointed it out to her so many times). She has to be physically in your presence when talking to you-really up close and it makes so many people uncomfortable. When I’ve pointed this out to her she sort of shrugs and says she prefers it with no consideration for how everyone else feels.

I woke say she thinks she’s being kind, she thinks she’s helping and she thinks she doing what’s best for you but it is all rooted in what she wants.

You sound the same.

You need to learn that sometimes when people say no, it really is no and you need to back off

So, you think you know what is best for your brother and your friend. You ignore their wishes not to attend the party / try the hobby, so you push the issue. They push back, and you call them rude? You lack self awareness, no matter how good your intentions may be.

Just read yours and one from a twin you quoted.

You should have organised a minor event for you plus twin, perhaps a quiet dinner with his wife. Then organised a big party for you alone.

You were selfish and tried to be controlling. You didnt consider your twin's feelings, only how bad you would feel if you didnt have him there. You would have felt bad leaving him out, you just put those feelings above his.

Can I ask gently Are you on the spectrum? As it does sound like you find it hard to understand social norms. You sound like a lovely caring person who just wanted to do a party for your brother, you ment well but sometimes you need to except that what you think someone would like is not what they think they would like. It's done now but going forward try to except what people tell you. (And maybe an apology to your friend and hopefully it will blow over)

"She said it was an example of me "always, always having to have things your own fucking way""

This suggests you bulldoze people a lot. Perhaps your brother decided enough was enough and felt he had to stand his ground.

You need to start listening to people instead of pushing your own agenda when you've already been told no.

This can all turn into something positive op by reflecting on what’s happened, your actions, the feedback that you get from your friends (inc your previous post 3 years ago) and use it for self improvement moving forward, which is great at any age.

If you don't think you can have a party without him then that is your issue, not his. What else do you feel you can't do without him? Or is it just birthday parties? If you hated each other would you still feel you had to have birthday parties together?

You were selfish. Your brother told you he didn’t want a party and you organised one anyway because it’s what YOU wanted.
It sounds like you feel that you know best and try to bulldoze people into doing things they way you think they should be done.