AIBU to want a 4th child, is it self sabotage?

[BeeHappy12]

I'm really stuck. DH and I have 3 kids aged 6.5, 4 and 2 and have been going back and forth on whether we should have child no 4.

The thing is I find 3 quite a lot in terms of mental energy, activities for the kids and 1:1 time already. My husband and I are very equal in terms of work and family time and we would be financially fine. My husband is happy with 3 (and in balance would prefer to stop because he's pragmatic about time, money) but can also see the positives of 4 and would support me if I really want it.

It feels like 3 is manageable for me and I should stop and be grateful and then I feel this impulse to go for no.4 to have another little person to watch grow and have a bigger family. I'm worried that with 3 there won't be enough going on around the house when they're all in school, like there is now. Is this just self sabotage because things are manageable and I'm pushing myself into unmanageable territory?

Help!

I’m one of 4, my husband is one of 8. We have 4 together and he has 2 from his first marriage, they are all adults now.
I don’t feel I missed out on attention from my parents and neither does he. Our children also say they don’t feel that.

I have 4 dc. Yes it is expensive and time consuming but it gets easier as they get more independent. I love having four dc, even in the difficult times, no regrets here.

The UK birth rate is historically low, so I would go for it if you have time, love and resources to give another child

It's the car for me. With 3, you all fit into a 'normal' car. That sums it up.

The 4th could also have a severe disability which would plunge you into a full-time carer role. I'd stick! I'm happy at 2 but have an urge to see another of my eggs grow. On my last I lamented not having more but I know what i can handle and I know my capacity. I value rest and down time and a strong bond and relationship with the children I have. It takes a lot of mental energy for one child, let alone 3, let alone 4!

Each pregnancy also takes a toll on your body. My first was a breeze but my second robbed my eldest of the best mummy she could have for a while because it took both tolls at once apparently! I did a buy now pay later it seems.

A third one would likely finish me off.

Having had four: it’s very different to having just three. BTW we did sit down and work out all the costs when surprise number four turned up whilst waiting to be sterilised after number three.

Had to buy a much bigger car. That was not a cheap option.
Ended up having to extend the house so each child had their own bedroom. Quickly found sending them to their room when fighting was just moving the location of the fight.
By the fourth the good quality baby clothes and equipment I had had to all be replaced (except for the coach built pram but that would NOT go in even an MPV)
I had no space or peace for myself till the youngest went to school.
Juggling which school event took priority over another school event, school friends party, et al.
Money was a lot, lot tighter moving from three to four. I could guarantee they would all need new school shoes at the same time.
I was trying to get four primary school kids to four different schools every single school day until I finally got my youngest two into the same school. that took two appeals. Forget the sibling rule for oversubscribed areas even if you live ten minutes walk from said school.
Four teenagers that vary from 13 to 18+ NOT recommended. it made the early school years look wonderful with hindsight.
Cooking was always en masse and forget ready meals or takeaways except as a very rare treat, it works out as way to expensive to feed a family of six.
Holidays in school time were very expensive, invested in camping as the only sane affordable option and every-time we went anywhere it was like planning a military campaign.
Do not assume they will all be friends and happy to share with each other. That may be the dream but the reality often falls somewhat short.
Do not assume Dh or OP will have time to pick up much slack. mine was working all hours just to feed everyone and keep them in shoes.
Childcare is extortionate. I had to stop working as the cost was more than I could earn and ate into my husbands wage too.
Forget any dreams of a fun packed social life, You will be too knackered from being a cross between a sheepdog running crowd control and the United Nations peace keeping corps.

So expect unsociable hours, unreasonable demands on your resources and time and very little money to do it all with and you may be able to cope.

Try and ignore that hormonal urge, it lies and glosses over the reality and makes you ignore the costs both personal, relational, career and financial. Please be realistic and keep communicating with other so you can reach a truly joint decision.

i had three with 5 years and then I big gap with number 4. The reason the gap was so big is we couldn’t decide. And then when we did, it took a while to conceive.

My 4th is a child with complex needs. It’s very difficult. Do I regret him? Absolutely not, but I’d by lying if I said it hasn’t rocked our worlds and added A LOT of stress.
It isn’t just his needs though, since his birth our eldest has been diagnosed with a life long medical condition and so have I. So things can feel VERY stretched. I find the big age gap a bit of a god send tbh.

Having said that I do understand the “need” feeling for another baby. It can be all consuming. Mine did go away luckily after number 4, but before it simply would not bugger off!!

I think this is a consideration, on the basis that your DH isn’t fully “in” with a fourth but will rather just be accepting of your decision. I have good friends, both excellent people and both great parents, who had the same dynamic over #3: he really wanted it, she wasn’t massively enthused but could see the positives, and reasoned that they could afford it and a third would just be absorbed into the existing general chaos. The third turned out to be a very challenging baby and unfortunately they’re currently in the process of separating - and a lot of it is around resentment and exhaustion; it was a huge feature of a lot of their pre-separation arguments, when they were both at their wits’ end having not slept for three days straight and being barely able to leave the house because DS3 just cried solidly, when her retort to arguments was “well, you were the one who wanted him and said we’d make it work!”

If you’re not both completely on the “absolutely yes! Let’s have another!” page, even strong relationships can falter if things don’t go as planned.

I wouldn’t consider what the positives of four are for anyone other than your children, rather than you. Quite frankly I can’t see any!

We need more children not less. Crack on OP! I have 4DC ages 18, 15, 9 and 8. Yes there are difficult moments but I love my table being full especially at Christmas.

Honestly, thank you all for making brilliant points. The things that stuck out were being able to thrive in the situation where the 4th has additional needs and the potential strain it could have on my existing kids. I keep coming back to those things and it's probably become a bit of a deal breaker in my heart/mind because I know it works be a lot/too much to cope with but seeing it written down and repeated by the thoughtful posters has been helpful.

I probably have to accept that it's always going to be a little niggle for me but I don't think it'll be enough for me to actively pursue 4.

Thank you for taking the time to reply, I read all of them.

You don't need to pay for all those things. That shouldn't necessarily be taken into account.

A means tested parent contribution to kids at university is built into the system calculations. If your kids want to go to university and a parent contribution is due they will be enormously disadvantaged if you don't help them and quite probably unable to go anywhere that involves living away from home.

But she might be able to afford this. She didn’t say anywhere she would need to be means tested

Thanks for starting this thread OP. I have 3 children similar ages to yours. I thought it would feel the sweet relief of done after baby 3. But I look at them and want another baby more than ever. I won’t because of a few reasons. But the hormones are so strong. I’ve never felt this way about anything else in my life

** Edit sorry not "you" it was another poster saying you don't need to help with a list of things.

I was responding to you saying that it is not neccessary to help kids pay for a list of things that included university. I wasnt responding to the OP who has said that finances are not an issue.

The thing is I find 3 quite a lot in terms of mental energy, activities for the kids and 1:1 time already

This is the most important thing you've written. I would stop at 3.
I dream about a 3rd sometimes but your sentence above is the reason I am stopping at 2. I'm at mental capacity.

I have similar gaps and stopped at 3 (we planned 4) as felt there wasn't enough of us to go around or support each child.

Oh and wanting another didnt go away until mine were much older. Im so glad dh got the snip as took it off the table

I’ve got 5. I seem to do more with my kids (eldest are teens) than many friends with one and two who now “have their life back”. It’s very expensive though - but we are privately educating - so could cut back there. I work full time mainly to pay the school fees. I’m close to all my children and love our busy house, - interestingly we seem to be the house all of their friends gather at. We are lucky as they all get on well together - it’s really lovely to see strong sibling bonds.

@BeeHappy12 can I ask a personal question for me it was because I hate downtime, hate not been busy I need a least 2 if not 3 stimulus and young children give me that

Hello OP,

I really dislike some of the comments. Predictably, anyone who has more than 2.1 kid gets the obligatory "who'd be dumb enough to want more" type comments.

One thing that did jump out to me is that you said you worry you'll be bored when the kids are in school - but having another baby will only push that back a few years. So I would base my decision on the long term outcomes.

I had two and then couldn't decide whether to go for three. In the end I did, because :

• I was worried about regretting it if I didn't. I tried for a whole year to put it out of my mind and couldn't.
• My work involves moving frequently, which means my kids won't grow up with a group of friends.
• We do not have a lot of extended family (only 2 cousins) and they don't live in the same country.
• Financially when I made the decision I was fairly comfortable (this has now changed, so we have to be careful, but we still can afford occasional days out, etc).

Some say that having four is better than three because they can pair up rather than having the odd one out, but I know I can't handle more and I'm fully completely done. I'm not sure why some people assume that you will then want a fifth or a sixth, etc. Usually people know when they've reached their limit.

I did have a moment when my circumstances changed and I panicked about having gone for a fourth. I am happy to have my third, all things considered. She's a willful, beautiful, clever little girl and she's wonderful. But I think I could have been happy with two also - which is why it was so hard to decide.

So in the end, should you do it ? Obviously only you can decide, I would urge you to consider how much time and attention you'll be able to dedicate to each of them. If you think you can comfortably pay attention to 4, and are happy to have less time for yourself, then why not. I know that there are things I can't (yet) do with mine that I might have been able to do more easily if I'd had only two, like play board games - but by the time my eldest is 9 my youngest will be 4 and I expect we'll be able to do a lot more things. Consider that any new baby will push back the time when you can do more things (no diapers, naps, feeds, etc) by a few years. Also consider what you can and can't do - I can fit three kids on my bike (yes, really - my bike is amazing 😁), but couldn't fit 4. Also outings - how hard would it be to find activities suitables for all ages, etc.

@Maxorias So you don’t have 4? You have 3. Not the same at all. The leap from 3 to 4 is big. The age gap, car needed, costs are more onerous etc. Your 9 year old is having to wait to do things because a 4 year old cannot do them. That limits the 9 year old. With 4 that includes a baby, it’s even more restricted for older dc.

You still have days out. What about holidays? After school clubs? Sport or music? Can they have everything they want, within reason, or are there curbs on just about everything?

I don’t know anyone with 4 now other than the very well off or on benefits. No one in the middle because of cost, practical reasons like size of home and car, time for each dc, logistics for dc and parent work arrangements. The few families I did know with 4 who were not well off were needing lifts for them, help with picking up from school, etc. It took a village to help out!

My mum had children to fill her life. Didn’t know what else to do with herself. She had four 7-16 and felt lost so had two more.
I love all my siblings but do feel we all missed out. Especially the younger two as my parents became tired and sort of lost interest.
None of us six have chosen to do the same! We all have 1-3.

We didn’t have money though so maybe you’d find it easier. Personally I’d be too worried about twins or a disability. (I meant to have two but 2nd was twins)

Yes because most people are able to prioritise the needs and wellbeing of their existing children over their own wants and desires.

I find the opposite actually, you’ll get loads of people on MN yelling “go for it”, because to many women their own desire for another child trumps everything else, including what’s good for their existing kids.

Why wouldn’t you want to provide those things for your kids though? Or are you saying existing kids should have to miss out on opportunities they could have had because of Mum’s desire for more more more? I honestly find the level of selfishness shocking.