Husband has extreme right wing views

[HelpMeUnderstandPolitics]

Not sure if this is the right place to post as it's not an AIBU but more of I think my husband is being and I'm not sure what to do about it.

He's getting caught up in some quite extreme right wing views in regards to migrants. Complains about how they're coming in, being housed in hotels, paid allowances etc. with no checks and how crime rates such as rape are now ten fold etc. He thinks Trump is great 😪 He's very intelligent so I'm not sure how he's managed to get caught up in this extremist view point.

WWYD?

It's not off topic. You said you would be happy to leave the country if the UK requested it for no other reason than you are an immigrant. You are a 'guest' and 'guests should leave when they're asked to'. Your own words.
I have been trying to point out the issues with this viewpoint. Such a regime would be toxic for everyone in the country

And yes, and I am still happy to leave and I would not want anyone to protest that. I would return to my home country. Not sure why this is so hard to understand??

You also said you'd prepared for such an event and kept your tax returns in order. There are many chaotic countries out there. Being in a position to make an orderly return to your birthplace is a luxury many don't have.

I would absolutely protest that because it's not about YOU. It's about the kind of regime that would have taken over my country. You as a 'guest' may leave. Fine, good for you if you think that's ok, but as a citizen I would want to resist the kind of fascist hellhole the country would have turned into if it told you to fuck off only because you're not native.

If you truly see yourself as just a 'guest' then surely you can respect my perspective.

I know!! I get it! You want to protest this mythical event. Go for it. Fill your boots!

but turning people away or sending them home because they are not native is why we have borders. What are advocating for? No borders? What is your ideal immigration scenario

I do! When have I ever said I don’t. I’ve said protest away. But I don’t understand what your perspective is? It seems to be let anyone in who wants to be here?

The extreme liberal entry policies of the past few years have resulted in a massive expansion of legal but low-skilled immigration, as well as a rise in asylum seekers.

There was immense pushback to the mere suggestion from Labour that we raise the bar for giving this group ILR and eventually citizenship (which we currently give out extremely cheaply - you just have to stay for one more year after ILR!).

But if we want to avoid having to roll back rights later, we should be extremely careful about handing them out today.

The dichotomy presented by its advocates is that we either let anyone who rocks up stay forever, continuing an irreversible ratchet to citizenship and pensions, or we are fascists. Then wonder why people seem to be choosing fascism.

Do you support reforming our ILR and citizenship policies to raise the bar to grant them, backdated to include people already here today but without ILR yet?

A fair system never sends people home just because they're not native! There are visas and various statuses. They're there for a reason because if you contribute and pay your taxes, it's only fair you are granted certain rights. What I am NOT advocating for is a system based on indiscriminate mass deportations like Reform is supposedly planning Trump-style because that is shit for everyone. Conversely I've never suggested no borders is an option.
There are complex factors at play and issues we face that affect how we tackle immigration include: less coordination with our neighbours thanks to Brexit (we need to address this somehow and we are, albeit slowly), staff shortages across many sectors, declining birthrates, struggling economy and to a degree social cohesion (but this is where we need to be cautious as there's a huge amount of disinformation out there).
The mindset arguing that immigrants have no rights is downright toxic.There are potential answers and strategies out there but the crowds being whipped up by the Britain First types are NOT helping get closer to a solution. It's just mob rule. It's pure emotion. Immigration needs to be managed but the last thing I want is being ruled by thugs.

But the call for them to be returned is not because they are not native. It’s because they have circumnavigated the immigration system.

i did not. That is why I won’t be deported.

Then don't say you'd go if you were asked knowing full well that nothing short of a fascist regime would deport you. You do feel (like I do) that there's a difference between someone who's breached the contract with the state in various ways (eg coming in under false pretences, committing crimes) and someone who's followed the rules. That's not arbitrary, that's normal implementation of the rule of law. That's all I'm saying.

Dot tell me what to do to or think. That’s fascist.

Have Reform said they're planning indiscriminate mass deportations? Indiscriminate?

Edit - double post

Of course I don't support that!
In business you cannot unilaterally change and backdate the terms of a contract you no longer like. You'd get sued to hell and back. A state can't do it either. If you let people come in under a certain set of rules, you can only amend or renegotiate going forward otherwise it's deceitful and dishonest to the people who have come in in good faith. Our rules are already pretty strict and contrary to what you think citizenship is not cheap (visa renewals add up over the years, as well as the NHS overseas charge).
I think the issues lie deeper within our economic model. Essential but low paid jobs need filling. Either we import the staff, we force people to work in jobs they don't want or we birth the workforce. For the mid to long term I think we should invest massively in research and development of automated technologies but how long will it take until nan can be looked after competently by a bot... It's a tough one. The lion's share of immigration is legal: students and workers coming in to plug the gaps. The small boats are a tiny (but very visible and rage-baity) percentage.

I'd be gone. No way I could be a thick racist sorry! Be the better person and leave him!

First of all, it's a turn of phrase and you know that full well. Second, I'm just pointing out the gap in the logic here. You said you'd go if you were requested to (for no reason other than your nationality) but in the same breath admitted you don't consider that to be possible.
You also said earlier you don't want anyone to protest in the event you were made to leave arbitrarily. Was that not telling others what to do or not do? Following your own logic, if you see yourself as a 'guest' then what business have you to tell a citizen how to stick up for their own country?

Jesus wept…. I’ve told you to do whatever you like! I just wouldn’t want people to protest for ME. Because if i was no longer welcome I would go back to my home country so there would be no need to protest for ME. I can say I don’t want you to protest but that you can if you want.

if I was asked to leave I would. Fact. I doubt I will be asked because I’m a net contributor and the uk needs those. Also fact.

where is the gap?

I'm an immigrant who came in during the period I'm talking about.

The rules do not guarantee that you can have ILR after 5 years and citizenship after 1 more, so first of all I dispute that it's a breach of contract. It's more similar to a company employing someone on a graduate scheme which usually promotes 90% of the junior class after 2 years, then business realities change and you now typically promote 50% of them. It probably will have an impact on your ability to recruit top talent (although maybe some will be attracted by the new high bar) but if you don't have the space for all the grads in the senior ranks anymore you're not bound to that historical precedent.

Perhaps if I say it in a way that aligns our interest: I think that "locking in" the last few years of immigration are MORE likely to lead to riots, pushback, strain, violence against arbitrary immigrants due to frustration, etc. I think that this is the path MORE likely to lead people towards extra-legal "solutions" because they will correctly perceive that legal solutions are not able to provide the control they want. I don't want that!

(I agree that the lion's share is legal and that's actually the bit I'm talking about right now. I am not one of the people who thinks our current legal immigration system is fine and dandy.)

I just want to add that I think we do have common interests, I really do. I'm being quite argumentative on this thread because I passionately think that we need a course-correction on immigration to AVOID even further backlash, violence, imprisonment etc. Against immigrants and others who get caught up in it. I think we both don't want that.

To the extent that violence has been able to be controlled it's because enough people still believe that there is a path through the legal system, rule of law, parliament etc which will reduce immigration total numbers and improve immigration "quality" (skilled, law-abiding, integrating, etc).

The last 5 years have been an extreme step change in the negative. Any immigration chart will show you this immediately. This has directly led to the negative sentiment we see on the streets today. Directly. It is a consequence of what people see with their eyes.

There is still a chance to go through the legal system to fix this, by significantly raising the bar for ILR, letting many visas expire naturally, and enforcing people to leave the country when that happens. That chance is slipping away though.

I think, strongly, that arguments about how we are just stuck with it and there is no going back, everyone here currently will be here forever with ever-ratcheting access to state support - I think comments like that are what turn people to look outside the legal system, and to violence, and to rioting.

Thank you again for putting it so well. You are presenting a well formed and thought out argument.

i am really tired of the word ‘fascist’ being thrown about in response to every point you’ve made. I’m also tired of those points not being debated but just looking for ‘gotchya’ moments.

im tired of being told I can’t have an opinion because it doesn’t align with someone’s narrative of how they feel an immigrant should feel.

My issue with your view is that either you are just a 'guest' (your own word) in which case why are you interfering with how your 'hosts' are running their household? Why take part in such a sensitive debate? Be a gracious guest and keep your judgement to yourself (that's an offensive concept, right?) OR, and that's the point I'm making, you are more than 'just a guest' in which case you have rights and therefore a moral duty to your fellow residents to uphold and defend the rights you were given- citizen or not is beside the point. That's what being part of a society is about. We have a stake in it and a responsibility towards others. It's not about you as an individual and what you'd be willing to give up, it's about the impact your opinions have on the rest of us. You have the right to voice those opinions. I have a right to criticise and push back.
Only a fascist regime would decide to deport lawfully abiding residents on the basis that they're not natives. Normalising the idea is a terrible thing in my view. Such a regime should be fought to the last.

I think we are just going to have to park this as it obvious I am not getting my point across and I honestly can’t see the point of what you are arguing.

i am a guest. I don’t have any say about what you do and have reiterated that over and over and over and over again. I can’t vote in this country so I officially have no say in how this country is run. I do have the right to vote in my home country. If I was no longer welcome then of course I would leave. And how you would chose to react to that is up to you. Again as I have said over and over again. Honestly, what would you expect me to do? Join a picket line and make the country keep me? No thanks, I will head back to my home country. If someone were to ask you to leave their house would you go lock yourself in the bathroom?

Only a fascist regime would decide to deport lawfully abiding residents on the basis that they're not natives

What kind of regime imports a foreign client base, over the objections of its native people? Certainly not a very democratic one, at any rate. Your government decided diversity was a good thing (there are pros and cons depending on WHO you import), and did this despite the fact it was not popular among the citizenry.