People who give up on life

[Dappy777]

I have had a few experiences recently with people who've given up on life. They are all male, over 40, single and childless. My cousin, for example, is 48 and lives with his mother. He's sort of her carer (she isn't physically dependent, just depressed and clingy). I know he feels trapped, but he's sort of given up. He doesn't bother dating, has lost touch with old friends and does a minimum wage job to get by.

There seem to be a lot of middle-aged men like this. I encounter a lot of them in my line of work. They have never come to the attention of the authorities because they've never claimed benefits. Instead, their parents provide them with food and a home. In return the parents (or parent) gets company and support. They're often ashamed of their life, and so they don't socialise, date or work. Things tick along OK until the parents die. Then the problems begin. The person will often be in their 50s or 60s, with poor social skills, poor mental health (undiagnosed autism or depression, for example), no job or CV, and no savings. Often, the house has to be sold (either to pay for nursing costs or because siblings demand their share of inheritance). The individual then finds himself alone for the first time and unable to cope. It's not a pretty sight. People like this really need to consider what will happen after the death of the parents.

Just curious if others have encountered such men and know what I'm talking about. Maybe (because of the work I do) I get a skewed view, but it seems quite common. Because of the shame involved, it tends to be hidden.

She’s not expecting anything, just making a statement🙄

I think women do it slightly differently, but I know a few who fit exactly the same description - except that it is husbands they depend on not parents. So I suspect that there is the same broad level of "some people" who simply don't become independant but they do it in different ways. In a sense, men who depend on others are more obvious because they don't fit any social norm. Whereas women who do the same thing are "carers" or "wife and mother", and we have social norms for them that enables them to stay under the radar of being "odd".

The only guy I know like this ("Sam") is a pothead & simply doesn't care.
He lives with elderly father, recently diagnosed with dementia, and leaches off of his dad or other relatives what he can.

Sam does have "friends" or should we call them "associates".

Glad Sam is not my relative.

One of my DSs may never leave home. He works in a job that involves a lot of customer service so does have social skills he can tap into. He's not ashamed, but lacks drive for sure. Also not into drugs so I can be grateful.

I know l was not being nasty smallpinecone , gently , l have a friend who never got married he had a partner for 20 years and nursed his mum who had cancer she passed so sue his partner also passed mid 40s yes they had his parents house ,the house is so clean you feel like taking shoes and socks off . Where l live near oxford we have professor s and so dirty um ,

I know a man like this, A is mid 50's never married never had a girlfriend, I suspect he never had sex either. He has a job, own home but lives with parents most of the time. He is handsome and goes to the gym but all the women his brother tried to introduce him are never enough, his brother ( who is my friend) doesn't bother anymore and he has his own family to look after. same with dating apps, A never answer to any women in there he complains they are ugly, a bit overweight, too old, too young, smoke etc.. never give them the opportunityto have a first date and get to know each other( at least is what A's brother told me)

He might not end homeless as OP friends but he will end alone when his parents die, his only relative will be his brother but he is moving to Australia.. I think some men end alone because they are too picky

Oh I know you weren’t being nasty Minty :)

I just didn’t think you or your friends were the people this thread were aimed at discussing. Certainly not those people who’ve had a fulfilling life, a job, friends, a partner… one of my close relatives has never had any of these things, describes her life as pointless and tells me she wasted it. Which is very sad, and it’s worth wondering what might have changed things for her. If she was happy with her life and choices - and many people are, they’re entitled to live their lives as they choose! - there’s no problem. But some people feel trapped and ashamed and would like their lives to be different. The older you get, the more difficult it becomes.

I suppose that’s true of women too, some people are just a bit unrealistic when searching for a partner. Very rarely do we find someone absolutely perfect. We all have flaws.

If he was really unhappy, or lonely, I think he’d probably come to this realisation himself. But his brother can’t worry about it, there’s only so much encouragement and help he can offer without being overbearing. I’m sure the guy knows that he’ll be alone when his brother moves away, and accepts that it’s the result of his choices.

I feel like often much more is expected of girls and women contrary to what is often said. I was expected to help my mum and dad around the house more than my brothers, to just know what needed doing or how to act. I was expected to look right, behave perfectly, get good results in school and be independent none of which was expected of my brothers. I was not to talk about any issues or problems I might be having so as not to be a drain on my parents but my Mum would always make a huge point of being their for my brothers because boys don't open up enough. I'd cook for my parents a few nights a week but be reprimanded for not having everything ready and spotless when my parents got home while my brothers would be praised for microwaving themselves a pizza. I'd be expected to be wise and self sufficient while my older brothers would get lifts everywhere because it's boys who get attacked.

To be honest though growing up it felt harsh and unfair but I went to a good university at 18, got a first and never moved back home. I was indeed self sufficient and knew how to run my life at that age while my brothers still struggle into their 40's, not one of them completed university and only one is married although its touch and go at the moment.

Perhaps we need to be harder on boys?

@AgathaCristina I'm fairly sure men like this are just terrified and resistant of relationships full stop, but of course it's never his issue its always that women are just not good enough.

I think brushed quite close to this happening to me. I managed to launch in my mid twenties when myself and DH had the opportunity to move to a different part of the country. I'm not sure what I would have done if I had been single.

It's tricky, I think when you become socially isolated there is a real rut that can set in. I spent a lot of time trying and failing to build social connections when I lived with my parents and got to a point where I didn't want to try anymore.

I also wonder how welcome an adult living with parents would be at some of the groups people suggest joining. I definitely felt like an odd one out and found the other people hard to relate to.

Like a PP mentioned, I feel like this is more common in Irish family environments due to the setup.

I have a couple of relatives like this, and I am really not sure what will happen to them when the parents dies. One was always going to be ‘odd’ but has effectively become a surrogate spouse to his mother after a traumatic divorce when he was a teenager, struggles to hold down a job and refuses to claim benefits due to the life skills required for that and having to formally acknowledge the situation. There has always been a strange dynamic in the wider family which has allowed this to develop also, and it is only through a lot of personal work that I haven’t ended up like this myself.
I went off to uni but returned to the family home for a few years and became socially isolated due to a breakup, struggling to start a career and returning to a place most of my friends had left. Luckily I worked my way out of that rut, but I could see how easy it would be to have stayed stuck.

Anyone I know in these scenarios has an unbalanced/unhealthy upbringing or family dynamic . Parents should naturally be preparing their children to launch, even if there is ND or LDs to take into consideration.

Yes, I agree with this. I'm also an introvert. Unfortunately, society is dominated by extroverts, and they cannot understand that not everyone needs or craves social interaction.

Another big problem is that most people aren't worth knowing. I don't mean they're all evil and horrible and toxic. I mean I just don't enjoy their company. Therapists will urge you to 'get out there and meet new people'. But what they don't add is that many of the people you meet will make you feel worse, not better. Last winter I made an effort to socialise more. I joined the Buddhist centre, went to French classes, and also took classes at the ACL in confidence and mental wellbeing. I met dozens of new people. In all that time, I'd say I only met two or three I really liked. But they've got lives and families and friends of their own.

I could divide people into three groups: people I really like, people I'm indifferent to, and people I dislike. I'd never be friends with people I disliked. But there really aren't that many people I Iike (I mean really like – you know, can't wait to see them, feel better for having been in their company, etc). So that leaves people I'm indifferent to (they're OK, but I don't really, really enjoy their company). The difference between an introvert and an extrovert is that the extrovert will have friends they're indifferent to rather than be alone. An introvert would rather not bother.

Yes, I agree with this. I'm also an introvert. Unfortunately, society is dominated by extroverts, and they cannot understand that not everyone needs or craves social interaction.

An awful lot of people who appear to be extroverted are actually introverts who are faking.
Extroverted introverts

I wasn't referring to people who live with ageing parents or earn minimum wage. Most people don't have high-flying career or loads of money or perfect families. I completely agree that nothing guarantees happiness. You can have the 'perfect' life and be suicidal. Equally, you can live what appears to be a failed life and be blissfully happy. Happiness is key. And happiness is subjective.

I was referring to a specific type of person – usually middle-aged and usually male – who gets stuck in the family home with an ageing parent. Sometimes they're there because the parent is mentally or physically ill, sometimes because they just don't have the skills to survive on their own. They are often ashamed of their life, and that stops them getting out into the world and connecting with others. The parent is happy to have their company and so funds their life. That means they don't work (or only do a side hussle) and don't socialise (largely because of the shame they feel). The years tick by, the parent dies, their siblings claim their share of the house, and the child, now in his 50s or 60s, is suddenly forced to leave the family home and cope with a new life for which he isn't prepared. I have seen this pattern repeated several times, and it isn't pretty.

@Dappy777 I generally find it difficult to meet people on the same wavelength as me, however I read about the power of weak social connections, and take interactions more at surface level or face value rather than trying to develop deep friendships from the outset and it has been a positive change. I have people I engage with in passing now at work, child activities, the gym, my neighbours etc and get a lot just from those interactions. Over time some of them have then naturally evolved into a more formal friendship and through them I have then met more people. I feel a sense of community that I didn’t previously when I was actively trying to make friends. My husband is naturally outgoing and I have learnt a lot from his easygoing ways 😂

@Someone2025 I am extroverted introvert for sure. As someone else also mentioned upthread, being able to separate introversion from social anxiety and shyness is important. Once I addressed my shyness and social anxiety, I can more easily engage with others while still being an introvert. I’m not 100% there, I always need to work on it.

Yes, exactly. And they often go under the radar because of shame. They are ashamed of their life, and so they don't seek help. It's only when the parent dies that they come to the attention of the GP or social worker. By then they're often in their 50s or 60s and in very poor shape.

What baffles me is that the parent doesn't consider what will happen to them after they're gone. Often, men (and women) remain at home because they struggle to cope with the real world. But that isn't always the case. I have known people trapped at home because their widowed mother has manipulated them into staying.

I so agree with all of this and everything in the post you replied to. Nothing to add, just nodding frantically.

Your last point is both entirely untrue, and characteristic of the wilful misunderstanding of the introversion/extroversion spectrum of many of the Mners who self-identify as 'introverts' but are in fact misanthropes, or simply people with poor social skills who have grasped onto the idea of 'introversion as an alibi for their social struggles or dislike of other people.

The sole difference between introverts and extroverts is whether they are energised or depleted by socialising -- whether they are primarily introverts or extroverts does not determine whether or not they enjoy socialising, or whether they are socially confident or timid, or how many good friendships they have or haven't.

Many sociable people who enjoy their friendships are introverted enough to have to build in lots of solo time to build them back up. I'm one of them. I adore my friends, have a lot of longstanding, good friendships (though we're now rather scattered across different countries), love socialising, find my friendships nourishing, love meeting interesting new people etc, but I need an awful lot of time alone to compensate, because even though I love seeing friends, it leaves me tired afterwards. But, being an adult who knows my own patterns, this isn't hard to do when I'm planning my social life.

You will not necessarily know an extrovert from an introvert by seeing them in company. There will be sociable, socially confident introverts. There will be extroverts who aren't particularly talkative or the life and soul of the party in any obvious way, but who enjoy being around people.

There will be people from both ends of the spectrum who have poor social skills. And having 'friends' you don't appear to much like is certainly not limited to extroverts. It's a common theme on here on threads by people who dub themselves introverts, but who chiefly appear socially insecure within groups containing individuals they don't much like or don't know well, but which they're afraid to leave because they don't think they will find other friends.

Another big problem is that most people aren't worth knowing. I don't mean they're all evil and horrible and toxic. I mean I just don't enjoy their company.

I think here you are trying to sound grandiose. It's not that 'most people aren't worth knowing' (which is an arrogant and frankly unpleasant thing to say), it's that most people aren't worth knowing for you. Which is an entirely normal sentiment.

Of course most new people you meet, however pleasant, will not be people that you don't want to befriend, otherwise you would accumulate a batch of phone numbers and promises of coffee dates every time you waited at a bus stop or took a fitness class! Only a tiny minority of the people you ever meet will be people you want to keep in your life (and, of course) sometimes they won't feel the same way about you. And that's fine. That doesn't make you an introvert, or particularly fussy, it makes you normal.

I do agree that it's not enough to go out and meet people. You need to have the right people in your life to not feel lonely.

I can believe that the sort of socialisation you are recommended to do to seek connection is easier for more extroverted people. As an introvert it's hard to stick at something that drains your energy whilst not giving obvious results. If socialisation energises you maybe it's easier to keep trying with people that you don't click with quickly.

I don't know any men like this, but do know a couple of ladies. Most of them hold down jobs, a small social life, and generally seem content.

But I know of one lady who is a concern. She's early 40s and still lives in her childhood bedroom with her aging parents, who had her later in life, and are, I think, both in their 80s. There is an older half-brother, but I get the impression he's fairly low contact. She's university educated, and did very well. But apart from a job for about 2 years post-graduation, she hasn't worked since.
She doesn't drive (never has), so is limited in her personal freedoms, and doesn't seem confident to tackle any more than extremely local bus journeys unless her fairly frail mum is with her.
She seems to pass her days sat in front of the family computer, engaging in various online fandoms.
She's completely dependent on her parents, often comes across completely frantic about their ailing health one day, and the next ranting about some imagined tiny slight they've committed against her. Something strange like failing to notify her when a chap is coming round to service the boiler.

She's a pretty strange character. I feel sorry for her, in that it's pretty clear it's going to be catastrophic when something finally befalls her parents.

I find the idea funny of just going to my local bus stop and coming back with a batch of numbers

Sounds similar to someone close to me. He is 48 and lives with his mother in the family home. He doesn't work and doesn't have much of a social life. She is happy to have him there as it is company. Odd thing is he's not at all like you'd imagine. Like your friend, he's handsome. He's also funny and charming and well-read. But like your friend he's picky/uninterested in sex and women. He's also never had a serious, long-term relationship (though I'm pretty sure he's had sex as he had several short-term flings in his 30s).

In his case, I'd say a lot comes down to shame. He avoids people because he's ashamed of living with his mother in the family home. Shame is a major problem for these men. It stops them living. Then they get to their 40s or 50s and give up.

I’m (regrettably) somewhat at risk of becoming one of these people. I’m 33, a woman, still live with my mum but I do work (low wage), split all household costs with her and cook and clean for myself.

I was a pretty unhappy child, very overweight and teased for it, was always treated like a weirdo and subsequently became very isolated by the age of 11 or so. Was also babied by both parents pretty heavily, basically still being spoken to and treated like an 8 year old when I was 18.

I went to uni but naively chose to study something pretty niche that, in hindsight, should have remained a hobby, wasn’t able to find work in the field and then kind of ended up doing very little for five years until getting the job I do now.

I am, at least, conscious about not wanting to end up the way that’s been described in this thread and am trying to turn things around. I’m saving as much money as I can for a potential house deposit and am learning to drive after having put it off for years due to having no confidence and figuring I’d be rubbish at it. Surprisingly, I’m loving learning and really looking forward to (hopefully) passing, getting my own car and getting the independence that will come with it. I also know running a car will be a big extra expense, so hopefully that will give me a big kick up the arse to try and get a better paying job.

My best year was 37 so you’ve got a 4 year head start on me girl 💪

Go for it !!!!

@RikkeOfTheLongEye

That's why when social workers assess people's needs they are supposed to focus on what the individual actually wants out of life and what their personal normal / ideal look like

I often end up at loggerheads with Social Work in my job because what I do is predicated on Service User interest, and not what my organisation perceives as their best interest. Social Work continually ignores this and invariably works towards what "the book" says is best.

I recognise a lot of the behaviours and traits in people you mention in your post by dint of the fact that I work with people who have mental health diagnoses. The thing is though, all of the things you describe, people with capacity have every right to choose to live that way if they so desire, which is why it rankles with me when social work, psychology, GP's etc invariably attempt to either change those behaviours or railroad the individual along a path that some outside agency or doctor has determined is "best" for them.

Whether the behaviours have arisen as coping mechanisms or otherwise, the fact remains that if someone wants to eat nothing but garbage, leave the house fewer than half-a-dozen times a year, or barely ever wash themselves, provided they are aware of the potential consequences, if they then decide to continue living like that then they are entirely within their rights to do so, and I will never accept people or organisations interfering with that because it's never coming from a place of user-interest, it's always what the service or organisation has determined is theoretically best and what the individual actually wants is usually completely ignored.

As an example, I've pulled my hair out at the number of times I've gone to a GP with someone who wants to wean themselves off a psychiatric medicine, they express this to a GP, and they are just met with a brick-wall "no" from the Dr. The Dr's job is supposed to be to help the patient, not obstruct them and work against their wishes. There are other avenues to consider beyond yes/no, but it's astonishing how often GP's and other services totally forget that ultimately the power rests with the individual provided they have capacity, and instead refuse to facilitate. It invariably comes back to GP's doing what suits the GP, Social Work doing what suits Social Work etc. The individual's preferences are usually ignored, and there is absolutely no justification for it. Even when there is a CTO in place you are still within your rights to ask for a medication review, or at least start exploring the possibility of a change/reduction in meds, but it's quite often met with a point-blank refusal to engage, and instead you hear "no, I'm not going to do that".

I work with one individual who is severely agoraphobic. To the best of my knowledge he has set foot outside of his flat no more than a handful of times in the past five years. He's perfectly capable of living independently, his home is clean and tidy enough, he eats well enough, he's content living the way he does. He has an ASD diagnosis and is socially awkward in the typical way often associated with Aspergers. He has no social life, no friends, no partner, isn't married, likely never will be, likely never will have children. He says he's completely uninterested in any of this, and he's also uninterested in engaging with outside services beyond mine because he says they invariably attempt to change his behaviours or cajole him to do so, and he simply has no interest in changing, so that interference is totally unwelcome. He ticks the boxes for a lot of the things which are being described as problematic in this thread, yet there he is, happily living in his own way, not doing anyone any harm, not interested in changing for anyone else's sake. He neither wants nor has any need of extra help beyond the things we assist him with, so I can't comprehend how he can possibly be considered a "problem" when he's content and the way he lives has no detrimental effect on anyone else. In fact, he's almost a model tenant because he has an almost ghostly presence in his block and he's a stickler from looking after his home, but he's inarguably "isolated" and has shunned family and most attempts to engage with him. What is he supposed to do? Make himself unbearably uncomfortable just so he conforms more to someone else's idea of "normal"?