People who give up on life

[Dappy777]

I have had a few experiences recently with people who've given up on life. They are all male, over 40, single and childless. My cousin, for example, is 48 and lives with his mother. He's sort of her carer (she isn't physically dependent, just depressed and clingy). I know he feels trapped, but he's sort of given up. He doesn't bother dating, has lost touch with old friends and does a minimum wage job to get by.

There seem to be a lot of middle-aged men like this. I encounter a lot of them in my line of work. They have never come to the attention of the authorities because they've never claimed benefits. Instead, their parents provide them with food and a home. In return the parents (or parent) gets company and support. They're often ashamed of their life, and so they don't socialise, date or work. Things tick along OK until the parents die. Then the problems begin. The person will often be in their 50s or 60s, with poor social skills, poor mental health (undiagnosed autism or depression, for example), no job or CV, and no savings. Often, the house has to be sold (either to pay for nursing costs or because siblings demand their share of inheritance). The individual then finds himself alone for the first time and unable to cope. It's not a pretty sight. People like this really need to consider what will happen after the death of the parents.

Just curious if others have encountered such men and know what I'm talking about. Maybe (because of the work I do) I get a skewed view, but it seems quite common. Because of the shame involved, it tends to be hidden.

Autism wouldn't of been caught at school for people in their 40s/50s

It's after they die that the problems begin. You then have a 55 or 60-year-old with poor social skills, poor mental health, no job, no CV and no friends. Often they can't cope. But the problem is these people tend to fall between the cracks. They're not registered as mentally ill, and they're not in the system, so there's no one to support them. They've usually gone under the radar (often because they're so ashamed of still living at home). Though not mentally ill, they tend not to be mentally robust either. They'll often have some low-level problems, like anxiety, mild depression, autistic traits, poor self-esteem, etc. This makes it very hard for them to survive.

In some cases they end up homeless. And it's hardly surprising. The parents just don't seem to think what is going to happen to their child after their death. Maybe they'd rather not. And the child also buries his (or her) head in the sand. Then when the parents die, the child is grief-stricken, plunged into depression, and unable to cope. Many end up in social housing flats after having spent their life in a nice suburban bungalow. The parents die, the siblings demand their share, the house is sold, and there isn't much money left over. In extreme cases they become victims of cuckooing (where drug dealers befriend them and then use their flat to deal drugs).

Social services, mainly

Have dealt with family members, mainly siblings who have had these creatures, male and female foisted upon them after their parents die or are taken into care homes

Too old to benefit from any ASD, SEN, MH diagnoses, generally unemployable, and totally helpless in the face of the modern world, they are often brought to the attention of council and social services when the homes have to be sold to pay for care and they can't/won't move, the homes have to be sold as part of the inheritance or they run totally off the rails when their parents are no longer there to administer medication and keep them in line

There is a sad parade of them accompanying their mothers in shops most days

Anyone out there who doesn't fancy 'dumping' a label onto their child, this is what lies in store if you're not careful

Getting them diagnosed, known to health and social services and interacting with the outside world does wonders for them and makes traumatic life changes that bit easier

OP I work for a mental health team - I'm a social worker and therapist. I have seen quite a lot of what you describe. I really relate to what you say about how it all crumbles once the parent / parents die or have to go into a home, and the support network is snatched away.

I would add that:

1. I don't think this is anything new. I'm thinking of the 'old maid' stereotype in Jane Austen's literature: the daughter who ends up staying behind in life and caring for family because without marriage she can't find another social role.
2. Family members - parents and children - have always done a huge amount of unpaid behind-the-scene caring for one another. In the situations you describe, it seems the complexity is that both parties receive care from each other so it's a mutual entanglement, no doubt with benefits and drawbacks on both sides.
3. In some cases I think the adult child has such a level of difficulty - for example a severe learning disability or chronic mental health problem - that it would always have been difficult for them to live the sort of life that others think of as 'normal': successful career, spouse, kids. I know that people with all sorts of challenges are able to still live brilliant and worthwhile lives but there are some who will always need a level of care and support to be able to function. There are good things about that support coming from parents throughout your life but bad things too: the dependency, the emeshment, the fact that the parents of struggling adult children don't always support them to live the lives THEY want in the way that, for example, a professional social worker would ideally strive to do.
4. In other cases the adult child could have had a very different life and it is life circumstances that end up trapping them in this sort of caring role where they end up with little of their own. That of course then creates mental health problems in itself as depression, anxiety etc thrive on soil of low self-esteem, low autonomy and lack of connection with peers. A vicious cycle indeed.

This reminds me a bit of Adam Sandlers waterboy. Poor cousin, I imagine when you have gone that far in life just being only with your mum the idea of dating is too terrifying to consider 🙁

I think the basic difference is that women are better at reaching out for help. They're better at socialising and finding (and maintaining) support groups. It's also a generational thing, maybe?. Men in their 40s, 50s and 60s were raised in more traditional homes. They grew up in the 1970s and saw their mums do all the housework and cooking.

I know someone like this, work with him. Only he bought his parents house, so they live with him iyswim. It’s not through lack of his parents trying to get him to have his own life, and we’ve all tried at work to support him in finding other interests. He just doesn’t want to. God alone knows what will happen when his remaining parent dies. I think he’s used up everyone’s patience and goodwill.

The ones I know have been held back by their mothers.

Dear God how depressing is the term "failure to launch" for a human 😓

Yes it's very sad. I guess that earlier diagnosis of autism may help, but given the number of depressed autistic young men gaming all night in their childhood bedroom (there are LOTS of MN threads with stories like this) I'm not sure it makes that much difference in many cases.

Social services are so overwhelmed with genuinely terrible situations that they are never going to do anything to help these guys until the crisis hits.

A lot of judgment on this thread. I assume you’re all living in mansions married to George Clooney, or could it be that there are people who wouldn’t think your lives look totally aspirational either.

If the men you’re describing are unhappy then yes there’s an issue, but ‘given up on life’ is your framing really. Yes some of them may be lost when their parents die, but how many people in long-term marriages will be lost when they no longer have their spouse? Especially women who have relied on their husbands for driving/finances etc. It’s not a unique issue.

Even when crisis does hit they are often too overwhelmed to do much. I have one such case at the moment and adult social care ahve offered help but if the person won't accept and they have capacity there really isn't much they can do.

I think it helps to talk about this more. We need to get the stereotype out there and recognised so people don’t fall into it accidentally, whether as parent or child.

We have it in our family and I’ve tried hard with DS but time will tell. He is happy to live independently, but whether he will continue with social networks and cleanliness is still to be seen! Personal hygiene will be fine, but housekeeping may be a bit cursory.

BiL is caring for his parents, and will inherit pretty much everything as a result. Fortunately for us all he’s doing a pretty good job. But there’s no forethought. No preempting of problems. No communication. MiL ended up in hospital for weeks partly because he and FiL didn't ever ask what the plan was. They had no idea why she was there, no idea when she’d be home, no idea what was wrong. Mil couldn't tell us either.

He absolutely could end up homeless under certain circumstances. I’d like him to be assessed as vulnerable to avert that, but don’t really know where to start. The family don’t really see an issue, it’s ’just how he is’.

The women mentioned elsewhere often launch once their other responsibilities are relieved. The men never seem to.

One of the biggest issues as highlighted by the OP is that the authorities are swift to.leave the person homeless (if under 60) if the house has to be sold for care fees.

I think in these specific situations more consideration could be given to the them.

Speaking from personal experience of having a DB with schizophrenia, you need to get in there and teach or self develop through necessity your own independence skills by the time you are 30 I reckon.

Yes, this is exactly what I was referring to. Such people are in real danger of ending up homeless. I have seen it. They settle into a pleasant little routine living at home with their parents. They don't work, but that's OK because they don't have social life and the parents enjoy their company and support. Everyone settles into a routine and the years zip by. Then the parents suddenly die and the siblings (who maybe live in Australia or Canada) descend on the home and demand their share. The house is sold and the child is suddenly forced out. If much of the inheritance has already gone on care costs, and then what's left over is divided three ways, the child finds himself suddenly alone in the world at 55 with no job or CV and maybe a £40,000 inheritance. It's not enough to buy anywhere, and certainly not enough to live on. Others find themselves suddenly forced out of the quiet familiar family house into a noisy social housing flat. They can't cope and end up having a break down. Then they start sleeping outside or just abandon the flat altogether. They're said to have made themselves "intentionally homeless" and before you know they've gone from a lovely life in suburbia to literally sleeping on the streets. Such cases are extreme, but they do happen.

I put it down to parents who don't encourage their children to leave home and live independently. Getting them to 'launch' is actually part of a parent's job.

We could do with finding a way to stop people withdrawing. So that people remain connected to something outside themselves, and maintain the skills that involves.

DS’s first port of call for anything is the internet- if an appliance breaks down he’ll order the part, watch the tutorial and sort it out. So no tradesmen even! Need soap? Shampoo? Online shop.

Compulsory dogs for all, is the best I can come up with! Dog walkers tend to have a good pattern of contacts.

I knew of a woman like this and a ex-colleague (female). Both very depressed after the last parent died. I also know of a man and a woman in the same circumstances who are now living their best life having found renewed energy and eventually love after thinking they had no chance in their 60s and 70s. (Miles apart btw not in same county and don’t know about each other).

This is why I find it so hair-tearingly frustrating when people tip up on here and post how they "don't need friends" and are "happy with my little family".

There is a recent tendency at the moment to celebrate limiting one's world just to the nuclear family and avoiding social contact beyond your spouse and children (because friends create "drama", don't you know). It goes hand in hand with the celebration of "introversion" (which actually isn't really introversion at all, its social anxiety) and this fearful and suspicious approach to everyday social interactions with people outside the family. There's always been an element of this in society at the margins but historically with people living in more communal situations everyone, to some extent, had to develop some social muscle. Over the last 50 years people have lived a more atomised life and then COVID turbo charged this so it's now seen as normal and almost encouraged for people to eschew non-essential social contact.

Relying on just one other adult for all your emotional and social needs is a really unhealthy and dangerous way to live. There's tons of evidence that social isolation damages health and even shortens life and you're so vulnerable if you rely on just one other person. Some people do find socialising difficult and that deserves compassion but its an essential life skill to be able to build networks outside your family.

I really worry about the fact that this retreat into people's own little units has become so normalised. If we want to support people like this in later life we really need to recognise how unhealthy this is.

Hopefully it will become less of an issue in future generations, as neurodiversity is becoming better understood and, in theory, more accommodations are being made within education and the workplace.

I'm in my 40s and recognise what you mean. There's clearly autism on my Mum's side of the family; nothing ever formally diagnosed as it wasn't really 'a thing' back then. Her brother never left home, dated, or had children. He did work, so money wasn't an issue so much, but socially he was very isolated. One of my brothers is very similar.

My Mum always 'coached' me into being domesticated from a young age (which she didn't do with my brothers). She's never explicitly said as much, but she clearly believes you need to be with a man to survive. I've always been ok with romantic relationships, but never great at making friends. I suspect I'm ND, but have no idea how to navigate getting diagnosed or whether or not it would even be useful at this stage in my life. 'Failure to thrive' is how I feel about my life. I was very high achieving at school and University, but no idea how to translate this the world of employment to earn a decent salary and have a somewhat stimulating career. I'm plodding along working a just over minimum wage job and sometimes hate myself for becoming too reliant on a man. I hope I die before he does!

There seems to be alot of "in bedroom gaming" comments etc. Isn't this the modern equivalent of trainspotting, stamp collecting etc ? Things that introverted people might like to do? I see the correlation with special interests in those with autism, but isn't it possible that everyone is different and don't want to be sociable go-getters?

Those who find themselves in a caring role have to be functional to fulfill that role (generally speaking) and it's difficult to maintain a social life, full time job and keep oneself "out there" and current.

In those situations it needs more in the way of respite and support from outside sources. How often are their threads on here where one child ends up in this position, because their siblings have "real and important" lives / commitments? Of course individual family dynamics are all different.

And it's really not as easy as just relinquishing caring responsibilities as if elderly parents are judged to have capacity (the bar for which is a moveable feast depending on agencies and other factors) and refuse outside help, there's diddly squat you can do. Very few people will "let the crisis happen" that forces the authorities hand, because it involves watching someone elderly suffer.

I think the sweeping generalisations on this thread are unhelpful. There are multiple issues at play, but if these "people" being discussed ( and I count myself among that number) are already aware they are considered problematic it really isn't helpful in attempting to help them.

Is that giving up on life though? Just seems like they are just taking life as a day to
day thing. Not everybody wants a big well paid job and just wants money to cover their bills and basics.

Yes, not so much personally, but like you, through work. The ones I've come across have often got undiagnosed learning needs, parents have kept them close, then when parents die, they are completely lost.