People who give up on life

[Dappy777]

I have had a few experiences recently with people who've given up on life. They are all male, over 40, single and childless. My cousin, for example, is 48 and lives with his mother. He's sort of her carer (she isn't physically dependent, just depressed and clingy). I know he feels trapped, but he's sort of given up. He doesn't bother dating, has lost touch with old friends and does a minimum wage job to get by.

There seem to be a lot of middle-aged men like this. I encounter a lot of them in my line of work. They have never come to the attention of the authorities because they've never claimed benefits. Instead, their parents provide them with food and a home. In return the parents (or parent) gets company and support. They're often ashamed of their life, and so they don't socialise, date or work. Things tick along OK until the parents die. Then the problems begin. The person will often be in their 50s or 60s, with poor social skills, poor mental health (undiagnosed autism or depression, for example), no job or CV, and no savings. Often, the house has to be sold (either to pay for nursing costs or because siblings demand their share of inheritance). The individual then finds himself alone for the first time and unable to cope. It's not a pretty sight. People like this really need to consider what will happen after the death of the parents.

Just curious if others have encountered such men and know what I'm talking about. Maybe (because of the work I do) I get a skewed view, but it seems quite common. Because of the shame involved, it tends to be hidden.

A lot of the time it is the mothers who become the toxic ones unfortunately, I have certainly heard many many more toxic stories related to mothers than I have of fathers

In Japan it's described as 'Hikikomori' and it's a phenomena that's been around (or at least described) since the 1990s - reclusive teens or adults that withdraw from social life. As the article below describes, having a term for this has made it easier to develop policy responses around support systems, treatment, family burden and social integration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori

Often people like him avoid the neighbours because they're so ashamed. My sister has a middle-aged man in her street who lives with his parents. The parents are friendly and chatty, but she has literally never spoken a word to the son. In fact, it's rare to see him. Almost certainly that's because he's ashamed of his life. Shame often cripples men like that and stops them socialising. It's a vicious circle. They need to get out and build a support network, but they can't because they're so ashamed of their life. So they hide away. Then when their parents die they've got no one (and no social skills).

But it's often split with siblings. Plus the LA takes a big chunk to pay for care costs.

My ex husband after our divorce. He’s Mid-40s now. He was sacked for being aggressive towards a female colleague just after I left him 15 years ago. He hasn’t worked since. His elderly parents find his entire existence. I’m interested to see what will happen when they die. I suspect he will expect DC to fund him if/when any inheritance runs out. Teen DC has already said she will give him the same amount of financial support he gave her - £0.

If undiagnosed autism, you’d hope it was caught at school.
My DDad was one of the first teachers to be trained in autism. I am 50 and remember him talking about the courses he was going on so I mush have been about 8 or 9ish. So it wasn't common for kids of my age or older to have been to a school that had specialist autism recognition. Especially not in mainstream. He worked in a evil for children with disabilities.

Im really not liking this "launch" thing, we are humans not rockets.

I know of a case like this. The guy is 50 and not at all like the stereotype. He's good-looking, charming, funny and well-read. In fact, I'd say his social skills are above average rather than below. No sign of mental illness (expect mild depression, maybe). He never plays video games and the house is full of high brow books (Shakespeare, Milton, etc). But he has been manipulated by his mother into remaining at home. She had a breakdown when her husband died and kind of clung to him. He's ashamed of his life and so avoids socialising. I suppose that's what I meant by giving up on life – people like him ditch old friends because they're so ashamed. It's sad to watch.

I have also known families where the parents do all they can to stop the children leaving. They deliberately have no lives of their own so the children will stay with them. Or they fill the children with fear and loathing of the outside world Sometimes I think the nuclear family ought to be disbanded altogether!😬

My brother in his late 50s was diagnosed has having bipolar in his late teens before eventually going on many years later to being diagnosed with autism. It certainly wasn’t common knowledge back in the 70s early 80s.

It is an interesting dynamic; the parent has a need (care) that gives the child a purpose.

@Dappy777 this is rife in my family the generation above me.

My mum was from a big family and the men are universally like this. It’s something that (in our case) stems from bad home life, using the boy children as surrogates for relationships and support, and the women as workers in the house.

I am a bit of a black sheep because I refuse to follow this toxic dynamic.

My children are both autistic and I encourage independence where possible, and will not use them as an emotional support animal.

There are now a raft of men in my family looking for constant financial support from their sisters since their mother died. It’s very sad, dysfunctional, and upsetting.

One uncle has drained the savings of his sister because of drugs issues and the enmeshed dynamic means she felt she couldn’t say no.

I think a lot of the time they are just too bloody lazy to do anything about it. The mum does the childcare, does the housework, then just carries on in the the mum role from childhood to adulthood. Dad just sits there getting his washing done and not getting involved in any parenting decisions for an easy life.

The parent can’t put their own selfish need to care aside when their child becomes an adult, they continue to treat their adult offspring like a child therefore destroying self esteem and confidence

Some people on the thread seem to assume that if a diagnosis of autism or depression is obtained there would be help or support of some kind out there. In my experience this isn’t the case!

I think it is hard for some of these parents as how do you encourage your children to leave, especially given the problems with the rental market. You can give ultimatums and so on, but then you may feel you run the risk of your adult child becoming homeless or estranged from you. What is the best way as a parent to support a adult child like this?

Oops SCHOOL not evil!

I have a close relative who was in this sort of situation. She never married; although she went on plenty of dates, she says now she always thought she’d have more time in the future, that she enjoyed being a home bird and preferred being home to socialising. It all seemed a lot of effort for her and she refused invitations out. She continued to go on holiday with her parents and moved them into her home as they became elderly.

Now she’s in her sixties and has several health conditions that cause her terrible pain. And when we talk she often says she wasted her life, that if she could go back in time she’d do things totally differently. Accept invitations, meet people, go on dates. But that’s hindsight, I guess. It’s all very sad… she looked after her parents for years, made them the centre of her world, and now they’ve gone, her own health has deteriorated and she can’t enjoy the life she might have built for herself.

She tells people frankly that it was an unhealthy situation. She knew that at the time. But she always assumed she’d have time, and her health, not realising the years go by so quickly and life is short. Perhaps her parents could have encouraged her more to have an independent life.

@NImumconfused well in my family’s case it was my grandmother who was the head of the family and created the dynamic after being abandoned by a feckless husband.

His fault was his lack of engagement and support, hers was control and enabling dysfunction.

It was a fucking mess.

Well, I'm one of the men you describe OP, I'm still at home at 46, but have a degree, a 22 year teaching career, launched a business 5 years ago that is phasing out teaching (had enough, but not quite gone yet!). Good circle of friends. I cared for my dad through his long decline with dementia, and now mum, who is very frail.

Of course when she dies I'll be very sad, but that's the way of the world, I'll have plenty to do to keep me occupied! and plan to get some much overdue travelling in.

I'm sure the people you describe do exist, but not all of us who provide care to our parents are no hopers!!

Ah fair point

A few years back, I met a quite nice man while doing OLD. It transpired that his last remaining parent had recently died, and he had always lived with his parents in the family home.I asked him why he'd never left home (he was upwards of 50 at this point) and he just replied that he didn't know. I was surprised at his lack of insight and self-knowledge. I also ended our dating relationship, as I didn't want to be a replacement parent. I did feel sorry for him, though....all those formative experiences through all those years he'd missed out on.

My uncle is another who has never left the family home. After his mum died, he just hung around on his own in the house. He had a lorry driving job for a while but it didn't last.

Too true, I have a neighbour like this, his mum died a few years ago and he seems to have no family or social connections.

So you aren’t one of the people OP is talking about then!

Or parents rent.

Its really sad to see these situations.
Many years ago i had a client who was an awful domineering frumpy old fashioned woman ,she had a daughter roughly the same age as me ,the poor girl had a terrible 'set perm' similar to the what the queen had ,just like her mothers and wore buttoned neck blouses, A line skirts and sensible shoes again the same as her mother.
She looked so down trodden but would light up if she was ever spoken to by myself or my colleagues.
I think her mother had money from where she lived and that the daughter was never encouraged to work or get further educated , just become her mothers 'companion'.
I often think about her and wonder what became of her , the mother would be ancient now if still alive , i hope she managed to break free and live her own life but looking back i don't think she stood much of a chance.
It is unforgivable to treat your child in such a way that they never develop their own identity and self confidence to live life.

@MistressoftheDarkSide

Depends whether your motivation is truly because you want people to have a comfortable and fulfilling life both materially and mentally for their own benefit, or if it's so they aren't a drain on other people and resources. People with little confidence after negative life experiences also tend to be very wary of people "trying to help them" when it's done out if sanctimonious or pity. We can smell it a mile off. We don't want to be a "project".

I get that. That’s understandable.

And yet… to be blunt, someone’s reluctance to face up to what’s holding them back in life shouldn’t be a get out of jail free card. Someone who at 45 who is living with their elderly parents and isnt willing to change this (as opposed to someone who is disabled) needs a radical intervention. Its not sustainable.

It may be a problematic analogy but if someone is morbidly obese, they will certainly be embarrassed and avoid facing the matter, they may feel shame. Persuading someone in this scenario to consider weight loss strategies is a big challenge because of stigma (which is one reason weight loss drugs have taken off as they have).

But while everyone agrees that obesity is a huge problem, people seem to shrug when faced with the question of how to deal with social isolation or mid life inertia. Its every bit as much of a risk as obesity or alcoholism (in fact it may be causative). But its waved off as being something which society cannot engage with or tackle in any meaningful way.

To answer your question about whether I am more concerned with people’s wellbeing or the burden on society, I am concerned about both. The impact on the whole of our society is profoundly negative and worrying and underpins so many of our current malaises, from political extremism and the rise of conspiracy theories to depression to unemployment.

I think we need to have compassion for people trapped in these situations but I also think the celebration of social isolation that I read about on here and encounter in day to day life needs to be addressed. Its not enough just to say “this is what this person is like, they are a loner/dysfunctional/introvert”. Why isn’t society enabling people to participate? How can we change it?