AIBU to not fight for custody

[Franklekirk]

I’m in a really awful situation. Very outing but my 11 year old son came home on Sunday and told me he wants to move in with his dad. We split up 3 years ago and son has been with me since, sees his dad every other weekend and half the holidays.

son found the divorce very difficult to accept and has had counselling at primary school. We’re very close. dad wanted him to live with him, I’ve always said sons choice.

dad is very manipulative/ narcissistic. Over the years him and his mum have constantly bad mouthed me to my son, which he has found very upsetting. All sorts but things like calling me a “fucking fat pig”, making up all sorts of reasons he divorced me (I eventually kicked him out after numerous affairs), and telling me son they’d call social services on me but I’d lie to the social worker (I’ve said I’d welcome this as there is nothing to report).

however he’s obviously had a nice couple of weeks there with 1 week abroad. He’s told me he wants to move there for the start of secondary. Problem is this is 2 hours away so would mean moving to a school he’s not looked around (but his cousins go there).

my sons been sold a lifestyle, such as being told maintenance should go to the child so he can have a football season ticket etc whereas we don’t have spare finances (I do work full time in a well paid job but have a very expensive mortgage im
tied into which is another story of ex….).

as well as the huge financial implication on me, but this doesn’t effect the decision as that’s my issue not his.

I obviously want to fight to keep him but I don’t think it’s the right decision as legally his dad can keep him as we have no custody agreement, my son wants to go and at 11 gets a say. Yes ex is a prick but my son still has contact with him and will actually be nicer to him if hes “won”.

im arranging mediation to give my son someone impartial to speak to but we only have 1.5 weeks until he starts secondary and would starting here as planned and moving a couple of months later impact him
negatively?

Everyone says I should fight but I think I should listen to my son. Please help, I’m lost

And his father . . .

Sounds auful let him go, I did my son at 16 showed dad's family's true colours and he now has nothing to do with them all so eventually I "" won""
Soon stopped spending money on extras when they realised what was paying me covered Jack shit!
If still in education be warned they may take you for maintenance,
Rent a room out if you get desp, you can be the good guy take him out for tea once a week tables will soon turn I promise you

I think a major change such as starting secondary is not the time to be changing residency and potentially loosing a mother, and 11 is too young to be making this decision, and that in years to come he may well interpret you allowing this without resistance as apathy towards him. For these reasons I would say no, but also talk to him about it in these terms and say that if he’s still wanting to move, you can work towards it, maybe during the next summer holidays.

you may not be able to enforce this, but he will see you trying, which is a big deal in itself. You don’t have to compete with or denigrate his father, you can present it as not wanting to overwhelm him with sudden unplanned massive changes.

I think you need legal advice, and also ring some helplines eg Rights for Women. Women’s Aid is a good place to start as they’ll have info about the right kind services in your area.

You sound exhausted and completely drained by your exs behaviour. Completely understandable but don’t let it overwhelm you, get some support.

I don’t think you’re right about this. You do have the right to apply for custody, your son is still a child. At his age his views would be taken into account by family court but he wouldn’t get the final say. The court would consider his best interests.

Dont lie down and take this. I know how it feels when it seems like the ex is holding all the cards but he isn’t.

100% this. My son would often agree to things his dad said while there, but then tell me at home he didn't like it.

I'd also add in the long term implications. What kind of adult do you want him to be? Like you, or his dad? If he's living with him, he'll be like him. Does he have a phone? Can you call him?

There would be no way at all I'd be letting my son live with his dad. Fight it.

Please keep him with you. He’s your son. He needs you and you need him. He’s only 11.

And you just accept this?! Why?! Why are you taking your son there knowing he might not come back?! Why are you so complacent about losing your son to your abusive ex and his family?!

I was in a similar situation and did absolutely everything in my power to ensure my ex doesn't take my child from me. She now has little contact with her dad, but it would have been the other way around had I allowed it.

My phone keeps posting twice

I understand what you're saying, but your choice is between fighting to keep him and him being pissed off because you didn't agree to what he wanted, and letting him go and having your ex and his mother drip poison into his ear 12 days out of every 14 about how you're a terrible mother who can't look after him and didn't even want him. There's a risk that he'll come to believe it and you'll end up not even seeing him every other weekend.

I would sit down with him and have a real heart to heart about why he thinks he wants to go and live with his dad. Is there something else going on, like he doesn't want to go to the secondary school he has a place at? Or is it more that his dad has sold him a Disney-fied version of the kind of life he would have if he lived there full time? It's worth explaining to him that it's great that he has a brilliant time when he's with his dad, but that it would be different if he lived there full time. The novelty would wear off. And maybe his dad is great at doing fun stuff every other weekend or in the holidays, but he wouldn't be so great at making sure he's always got what he needs for school, or helping him with his homework, or supporting him to do different hobbies.

Tell him that you don't want him to leave and go and live with his dad because you love him and would miss him terribly. But because you love him so much you want what is best for him even if it's not what's best for you. It's just that as his mother, i.e. the person who has actually been taking care of him day in day out for the last however many years, you don't believe that going to live with his dad is in his best interests.

Moving two hours away and switching to a new secondary school a week before the start of year 7 is a rash decision. These decisions should be made carefully, taking the time to really think about it properly, not on the spur of the moment. What if he moves to his dad's, then hates living there and hates the new school and misses you and misses his friends, but when he wants to come back there's no longer a place for him at his chosen school? Also, at this late stage he's only going to be able to get a place at a school that isn't oversubscribed. So he might not be able to go to the same school as his cousins anyway, and if he does it's probably because it's not a good school.

Like hell would I lie down and subject my child to living with an abusive narcissist full time. OP, you seem to think that if you allow your son to move there then his dad will manipulate him less!? He will do it more!!! I would fight tooth and nail. Having extended family around him isn't better than living with a sane parent.

I don't think there's anything you can do. At 11, the court will let him choose where he wants to live. I think all you can do is let him know that he can come home whenever he wants and you'll make it work.

You sound like you don’t want him back! Poor kid no wonder he wants to live with his dad!

First question: Is there actually a place available in that year at that school? If a popular school, chances are all the spaces are allocated already.

If not, that's a good reason to stall, by all means go on waiting list, visit the school. Meanwhile he'll have to go to your secondary where he has a space. He'll then make friends and perhaps the other school will be less interesting.
I would also make the point if he were then to join later in the year/subsequent year that he may find it harder to make friends because friendship groups will already have been built.

I would also ask him, when he bemoans no season ticket, what he thinks child maintenance payments should actually be for and encourage him to look it up online to check.

This post very much reads like you actually deep down want him to go...?

You've received lots of very sensible, level headed advice here. I'd advise you take it, instead of coming back with lots of "yeah-buts".

And yes, mum is seen as the default parent - it's just the way it is. It's a bit of a legal grey area, but judges do lean towards mum in a "him or me" situation, where there's no fault on either side.
That sentence from you is a bit concerning though... Like you want him to go.

Do you think his dad actually wants him or do you think he's using him to hurt / punish you?

If i was sure that his dad was using him to get to me and didnt actually want custody if he knew i was ok with him having it then I'd be inclined to say to the dad son really wants to live with you so I think he should.

I had a very similar situation with a narcissistic ex and his manipulation of eldest child (all focus was on him not the younger two) I fought, we went through the courts but ultimately, even though everyone who had worked with us as a family could see what my ex was doing my son’s wishes (?) were listened to and he now lives with his dad. It was noted by the child psychologist that they didn’t think my son was free to express his true feelings but still the judgement went against me. I have now been blocked by my ex from all contact with my son and I don’t know if I will ever have a relationship with him again. I live in hope that one day he finds his way back to me.
It’s heartbreaking but at 12 I can’t force him to do anything and his dad does make it all incredibly difficult.

I don’t regret fighting as it showed my son I still wanted him and cared. Hopefully he’ll realise that one day.

It sounds awful and you have my sympathy.

but he’s 11 and if you go to court they will take his views into account

his dad has the same parental responsibilities that you do

court will expect you to undertake mediation and to try to come to an agreement and if not they will decide on the best interests of your son taking your sons views into account.

It's not about the mother being the default parent it's about what is best for your son.
He is registered in a school near you. He doesn't have a place in the school near his dad's. Contacting the school doesn't guarantee a place. Usually places are allocated via the LA anyway not the school.
Also hei father sounds manipulative and misogynist. Is he a good example for a bit about to enter into adolescence?.
You should definitely fight for your child.

My advice would be to say - it's your choice where you live but it's also a big decision. It's not one that should be rushed with just a week of summer holidays left before school.

So yes, if you wish to live with your father you can - but it needs more planning, and we need to transfer your school etc. It would be disruptive to your education to do this now.

You can live with him from July 2026, when we've had time to transfer your school and you can start in 2nd year at your new school.

That's entirely fair, logical, and well thought out and it also gives him some time to think.

Yes technically you can transfer a school at any time but equally there is an year process to follow and I'd be holding the line that, that's the process you'll be following.

@Franklekirk I might have missed the mention, but has the father actually contacted you and spelled out his plans for your son? Unless he has, I would wait and see. Inform your son that dad hasn't been in contact yet, and that things need to be discussed between the parents first. Don't give in to pressure via the kid, your ex is manipulating you this way.

I agree that going to court would give both sides an agreement to rely upon, but it isn't the end-all, and it's terribly expensive in the UK (been there, done that and paid a new middle-class car for it, due to some special circumstances). We still had problems with dad just keeping the kid after the holidays for a day or two longer, though (kid is in Germany, dad in the UK, so he just booked ticket back at last minute and for a later date than agreed).

I think you are extremely brave actually and I feel sad for you, but quite honestly, I think if your son is hearing this stuff they say about you, then if you say no now, then it will ramp up and be more traumatic for you and also damaging for your son.
I think that what you are doing is damage limitation really, but I think that it would be a good thing to go for a day out or for a meal with him and tell him that you want him to be with you and you are going to miss him so much, and that you understand that he is close to his dad and that's important, and that if he wants to explore living there then thats his decision now, but that he has a home with you too and that you want him to remember that there are two sides to every story, and that a lot of things they say about you are unfair and you hope that he doesn't believe all the stuff they say, because you've always tried to do your best and any mistakes you've made, have always been with love. That you wish it wasn't so far away and that you hope it all works out at his new school and its everything he hopes.

You need to go to court and fight for your son. His dad has manipulated him and is doing this to spite you. Do NOT let your son go and live with his dad. You should have already gone to court to deal with ex bad mouthing you to your child, this is abuse.

If you don’t qualify for legal aid and a solicitor is too expensive, you can either represent yourself or get in touch with a Mckenzie friend. They can give you legal advice and come to court with you and are a lot less expensive than a solicitor. Your son’s wishes will be taken in to account but so will many other factors.

I’ve been through the family courts and I can tell you have a very good chance of remaining resident parent under these circumstances.

If your ex fails to return your child it will reflect very, very badly on him in court. Your ex should either have a discussion with you and come to an agreement or make an application to the court for residency. He has NO RIGHT to withhold your child from you and take matters in to his own hands.

Please also call women’s aid, this is abuse and you need proper support and guidance.

I wouldn't allow this at this moment. He's just had the summer holidays etc and thinks it will be like this all the time along with the bribery of a season ticket. I also think the family will alienate him from you. There's no way I'd allow that.
You must fight for him now. I like the suggestion of waiting until he's tried his new school. He'll make friends, join clubs etc but if he's adamant then you'll have to let him go with all the legalities sorted out.

This is what I was wondering. He could be saying he wants to live with his dad just to please him.

I would get an official residency order in place with you as a primary parent.
Get your DS to start at the secondary near you, to buy time, whilst you get things officialised.
Explain to your DS that big decisions like this take time and you want him to live with you.
HG Tudor on you tube gives advice about co parenting with a narcissist.

with all due respect, fuck off