AIBU to not fight for custody

[Franklekirk]

I’m in a really awful situation. Very outing but my 11 year old son came home on Sunday and told me he wants to move in with his dad. We split up 3 years ago and son has been with me since, sees his dad every other weekend and half the holidays.

son found the divorce very difficult to accept and has had counselling at primary school. We’re very close. dad wanted him to live with him, I’ve always said sons choice.

dad is very manipulative/ narcissistic. Over the years him and his mum have constantly bad mouthed me to my son, which he has found very upsetting. All sorts but things like calling me a “fucking fat pig”, making up all sorts of reasons he divorced me (I eventually kicked him out after numerous affairs), and telling me son they’d call social services on me but I’d lie to the social worker (I’ve said I’d welcome this as there is nothing to report).

however he’s obviously had a nice couple of weeks there with 1 week abroad. He’s told me he wants to move there for the start of secondary. Problem is this is 2 hours away so would mean moving to a school he’s not looked around (but his cousins go there).

my sons been sold a lifestyle, such as being told maintenance should go to the child so he can have a football season ticket etc whereas we don’t have spare finances (I do work full time in a well paid job but have a very expensive mortgage im
tied into which is another story of ex….).

as well as the huge financial implication on me, but this doesn’t effect the decision as that’s my issue not his.

I obviously want to fight to keep him but I don’t think it’s the right decision as legally his dad can keep him as we have no custody agreement, my son wants to go and at 11 gets a say. Yes ex is a prick but my son still has contact with him and will actually be nicer to him if hes “won”.

im arranging mediation to give my son someone impartial to speak to but we only have 1.5 weeks until he starts secondary and would starting here as planned and moving a couple of months later impact him
negatively?

Everyone says I should fight but I think I should listen to my son. Please help, I’m lost

@Franklekirk usual judgemental stuff on here. You are in a really tricky situation but your views are measured and rational. Hopefully the mediation will help your son to see the bigger picture, but probably with an 11 year old he would need to find out whether the grass is actually greener on the other side by living it. Up to now he and you exH have only done the nice/easy stuff. I suspect both will be less enthusiastic once the daily grind/ real life kick in (not to mention teenage hormones). I think you’re right to play the long game. You can’t sort out school in such a short time, so that is the ‘holding’ position for your son. You will also need to put a proper contact agreement in place for you (presumably what dad has now? - in which case maintenance shouldn’t be huge) and your son will need to agree to that, maybe via the mediation. So perhaps (assuming his wishes stay the same once he’s started at your local school) you could agree he could transfer in January and try it all out? Family court is a horrible process and I wouldn’t be convinced it would be helpful. At 11 your son’s views would have a lot of sway unless there is evidenced abuse or parental alienation. Good luck with it all.

@Franklekirk your DS is old enough to have the home truths spelled out. I know lots of MNs would disagree but I think your son needs to have the facts.
1 Tell him exactly why you and his dad are no longer together. Don’t sugar coat it. Be very clear. Make sure he knows that his father’s behaviour was the reason you are no longer married.
2 Tell him that the comments from his father and his gran are unacceptable, untrue and unfair. Be explicit about which comments and how they are incorrect.
3 Explain that he is no longer a baby and you can’t and shouldn’t hide these facts from him.
4 tell him that often his father behaves very badly and whilst this doesn’t make him a bad person, it doesn’t make him a good dad or a good influence
5 tell your son that if he moves to his dad’s, you will need to sell up and move - so he won’t be able to return to his childhood home (I’m assuming you’d have to in order to pay maintenance, I’m not suggesting you lie if this isn’t the case)
6 tell your son the reality of going to a secondary school where you don’t have any friends (a couple of girl cousins will not get him through) - he may get lonely for quite a while. His friends where you are will not wait around for him to come back and will eventually drift away.
7 Remind him that part of growing up is seeing the bigger picture. Right now he’s lucky enough to see both his parents regularly, with a stable familiar base and fun times with his dad. If he disrupts that balance by moving in with dad, there is no guarantee how things will be. Be very clear that you fear his father/gran will try to alienate him from you and that he would suffer by losing you.

@Franklekirk for the good of your son and because you are the responsible parent, you must tell your son this is not going to happen right now. That he is not old enough to make such a decision unilaterally. He has no idea how the world works and it isn’t practical immediately. I would also take legal advice and get some formal agreement in place. If ultimately your son does move in with his father for the majority of his week, you will need to have a formal agreement to ensure you get visitation. Do not allow this to happen unless and until you have this in place.

Because his Father is abusive

I'm your son in this situation, its sounds unbelievably similar. I am 32 now with 2 kids. My mum fought, but even in the case of phone recordings showing clear emotional abuse (ive now heard them) the court ruled in my father's favour because I was old enough, at eleven , to make that decision apparently. I was being emotionally manipulated and went on to have a really hard time with emotional and physical abuse (im not saying this will happen in your case, I dont know the man). But, guess which parent I'm in contact with now? Which one has a relationship with my kids, while the other parent doesn't even know hes a grandad... in the long run, your son will see what's what. I know that doesn't help right now, of course, but id strongly recommend fighting. Don't lower yourself to bad mouthing, or nasty tactics. It will all come out in time, and it means the world to me that my mum fought to the point of having to sell the house, losing her savings etc. It made me feel like I was loved, wanted, and could return when I needed to. Every situation is different, I know but I just could read and leave given how similar the situations are. Even the age! If you want to dm happy to chat x

I agree on most of this but it has to be done incredibly carefully. The ex h will turn it around to mums manipulating you, she's a liar, in an instant. And men like that are incredible convincing to young children !

The OP doesn't own the child, he's not HER kid. 🙄

I really feel for you, and for your son. I would talk to your son about the appropriate process- mediation, applying tk school and actually looking around it, a timeline. That moving and starting a new school shouldn't be a snap decision in 2 weeks with a 2 hour away Move.
I'd also organise a catch up with his friends at his current school, make him realise what he will miss by showing him the life he has with you.
You are right dad can keep him, but he can't start him at a new school without your agreement... and he hasn't even spoken to you yet!
I agree that son has a say to some extent, but remember he is 11 and given your description has been manipulated by dad... develop those tools to follow his gut when not with dad. He's just spent two weeks in that environment with certain messages being forced on him, give him time to decompress at yours and get back to normal. He might start doubting the very exciting proposition that has been sold.to him.
So sorry you are in this stressful situation.

I think you need to get a court order in place. Emergency if needs be.
Keep notes of what your son is disclosuring to you about his dad/grandmother as evidence.
Get SS involved if needed.
Not allow your son to visit father whilst waiting for hearing - every chance he won't be returned in time for start of term.
If your ex wanted your son to live with him, go to a secondary school nearer him, it should have been discussed last year during the application period. Not bounced in you last minute - (no guarantee of a place anyway!)
You do need to fight for your son. Whilst his options can be listened to, at the end of the day, you are the adult. Sometimes you have to make a tough decision because you have more experience of life and need to protect your son. You can see what your ex is up to.

No chance I would let anyone take my children aged 11 from me, when I know it’s in their best interests for stay with me. 11 yr olds don’t get a say in what school they go to or where they live. What if he asked you to move 2 hours away; you’d presumably say no. So why are you indulging this? You’re quite literally giving him away.

They have emergency placements for vulnerable children. He won't be processed as usual, he'll be in with the fostered children etc.

Does he have any close friends where you live that are hoing to the same school? Can you arrange a playdate before term starts?

How feasible would it be for you to move to Ex's location if your son does decide to move there?

I really feel for you, your son is not old enough to make decisions in his own best interests, but i agree with that the courts may not agree.

Unfortunately if it goes to court his preference and opinion is taken very seriously. Aged around 11, ironically.

Whatever you decide I very much doubt your son as a school place at his Dads
The LEA handles applications not schools (unless Private) and they won't know where there are spaces just yet.
Its a difficult decision for you but I think you have to let him go and make sure you tell him now and repeatedly that he can come and live with you any time he wants to

Huh?

Why is he vulnerable and needing an emergency placement?
Apologies if I missed something

Sorry, i probably skipped a step there. If the father has approached the local council to say he has a vulnerable child coming to live with him that would otherwise be in danger or homeless etc (lies, of course but its what my father did and now in my career I see this all the time) they will treat it as such. You dont need a court ruling or social services etc, many will take you at face value (probs at part due to under funding)

He is not a dog agreed. He is however Op’s son, don’t be ridiculous! He is a child and will need his mother for many more years to come.

My son was much younger when this question came into the equation but some of the principles and considerations apply:

• This is can’t be a trial unless you have the resources to fight to get him back in court (£1000s to 10,000s) if his dad doesn’t want him to move back to you. The courts will also be VERY reluctant to move him if he is settled in school there.
• Simply put, you will lose the resident parent status, therefore the child benefit, universal credits AND will need to pay child maintenance to your ex. If you cannot afford the mortgage after this, your son won’t have a house to come back to if he changes his mind in six months.

I would suggest he stays at home this term as it will be difficult to find him another school at short notice but increase the weekend/holiday contact with his dad. This will allow your son to be closer to his dad and to appreciate his true colours.

I explained to my son that he could go to live with his dad but that it will be very difficult for him to come back if he didn’t like it. This was not my take but the reality of the situation, I could only downsize to a 1 bedroom apartment and given the rental prices I would only be able to afford a small place with 2 bedrooms away from the area where we lived.

Spending more time with his dad was what tipped the balance… once they were out of the honeymoon period, he knew the last thing he wanted was to move to his dad.

I am also picking up that this child is very afraid to speak to his father, maybe doesn’t feel he can say no? He is very vulnerable to the same abuse op - only worse, as he is a child and is reliant on the adults around him.

This is a good post. You need to get a mediator involved...I guess the court. Explain to your son that you need someone impartial to look at what's best. He's been lured by a lovely summer holiday, but reality will be different.

Because there are 2 parents.

we don’t have spare finances (I do work full time in a well paid job but have a very expensive mortgage im tied into which is another story of ex….).

How are you tied into the mortgage? No chance of moving it?

Your son is old enough in law to make these decisions but the fact that a season ticket has come into the discussions shows he is not mature enough.

He needs to speak to a qualified professional about this, not in the presence of you or his dad. Someone who can help him see that telling lies about one parent to the other is manipulative. Does he still see the counsellor? Could you have a word? Also have you ever had anyone independent involved e.g. social services if he is making allegations about you? It might be useful to 'prove' to your son that you're officially a good parent if there is a third party professional involved. Lastly can you speak to social services or anyone about parental alienation as that's a real risk if he lives there full time. As it's a couple of hours away do you think your son would really want to come to yours at weekends away from new friends etc?

Do you think your ex genuinely wants your son there? Or does he just want to reduce maintenance payments? In which case you could come to an arrangement? Or just wants to 'win' to punish you?

How will your son feel about only seeing you every other weekend?

This.

You make it clear that you won't stop him if that's what he wants, but that this cannot be done straight away for purely practical reasons. This will give you time to deal with the matter sensibly, and not be bounced into a new situation which cannot easily be reversed.

I think not putting up a fight would be a big mistake.

I think reframe from the idea of fighting to actually this needs a framework it needs a proper set of rules and someone neutral to oversee it so it is kept.

Yiu aren’t fighting it you are setting out a clear structure

It will be a very disruptive start as a minimum. Starting secondary school is a big deal, and he hasn’t even seen the new school his father is suggesting, and may not have a place. I wouldn’t be risking his education. Most children form friendships in the first week too. Why hasn’t his father considered any of this?!