AIBU to not fight for custody

[Franklekirk]

I’m in a really awful situation. Very outing but my 11 year old son came home on Sunday and told me he wants to move in with his dad. We split up 3 years ago and son has been with me since, sees his dad every other weekend and half the holidays.

son found the divorce very difficult to accept and has had counselling at primary school. We’re very close. dad wanted him to live with him, I’ve always said sons choice.

dad is very manipulative/ narcissistic. Over the years him and his mum have constantly bad mouthed me to my son, which he has found very upsetting. All sorts but things like calling me a “fucking fat pig”, making up all sorts of reasons he divorced me (I eventually kicked him out after numerous affairs), and telling me son they’d call social services on me but I’d lie to the social worker (I’ve said I’d welcome this as there is nothing to report).

however he’s obviously had a nice couple of weeks there with 1 week abroad. He’s told me he wants to move there for the start of secondary. Problem is this is 2 hours away so would mean moving to a school he’s not looked around (but his cousins go there).

my sons been sold a lifestyle, such as being told maintenance should go to the child so he can have a football season ticket etc whereas we don’t have spare finances (I do work full time in a well paid job but have a very expensive mortgage im
tied into which is another story of ex….).

as well as the huge financial implication on me, but this doesn’t effect the decision as that’s my issue not his.

I obviously want to fight to keep him but I don’t think it’s the right decision as legally his dad can keep him as we have no custody agreement, my son wants to go and at 11 gets a say. Yes ex is a prick but my son still has contact with him and will actually be nicer to him if hes “won”.

im arranging mediation to give my son someone impartial to speak to but we only have 1.5 weeks until he starts secondary and would starting here as planned and moving a couple of months later impact him
negatively?

Everyone says I should fight but I think I should listen to my son. Please help, I’m lost

But why? I lived with my dad ( my choice) when my parents split. My mum respected that and didn't cause loads of hassle dragging it through the courts.

I had an excellent relationship with her until her death. May not have been so good of she had " fought" for me causing dad stress which would've also made our house stressful.

Why do you think he’s going to be able to hide his narcissistic, bullying personality from your son?

This approach coukd backfire if child feels OP fought for custody and disregarded his views and wishes

OP, one approach might be to suggest he goes to Dad for one term, see how it goes and then the adults will decide long term plans. Some children don't want the responsibility of deciding where to live

Was your dad a narcissistic bully?

What was the outcome?

Yes I expect they will try and push me out

I’m sorry. Do you now wish you’d fought? Do you think the outcome would be different?

What a nightmare. I think you recognise the possibilty of the ex and his mother turning the boy against you. That is making you realise that the best way of not losing him completely means trying to accomodate your sons wishes as much as possible. I think you have a gut feeling here that fighting hard for him which would be the first instinct might not work here. Perhaps the son needs to learn the reality of living there so he can can see the reality. I would be thinking the same here - trying to be seen to work along your sons wishes as much as possible. Moving schools as a teen is mostly a problem when being done against their will. However I wouldn

I feel you! I can’t go into much detail but these people are rotten, I’ve seen first hand how sons of mothers like this turn out but I can say as adults they saw through it, well 3 out of 4 did and they don’t allow their own mum to see their kids. I’d fight for him. I know it’s hard to co parent with a narc and if your son wants to live with his dad sooner or later he will and not much you can do except being you and keep loving him and never bad mouth the dad or his mum. show him you are different and not like that narc and are there for him. Do fun things when you’re together and show him love. ❤️ it will work out

I don’t, but he’s exposed to it now anyway. He’s also facing the manipulation of his dad telling him how sad he is that he’s not with him, how my house/ parenting isn’t fit etc

Exactly this. Of course my first instinct was no you’re staying. But I’m trying to look at the bigger picture and longer term relationship/ stability for my son

I’d fight tooth and nail. This is a hard chapter but it will pass. It sounds like you have a very good case for parental alienation in my book. It’s not too late for a CAO and an 11 year old really doesn’t have much say in it, my girls were 12 and 10 when my ex took me to court and I fought it he wanted 50:50 custody and to choose their schools. He won on the schools front but like I warned the court they would both be miserable and they are.

The judge went in hard on him for trying to alienate me and if he’s as controlling as he sounds then your child would eventually become unsettled and want to come back anyway.

Hmm, are you pondering how nice it would be if you could put your relationship first?

Dont do this. Fight for your son. In a couple of years time when the novelty has worn off for your son, he will just remember that you let him go without complaint so you could shack up with your new boyfriend.

No, not a day goes by where I don’t still think I made the right decision. My situation was very much a ‘Sophie’s Choice’ one, either option I chose (fight or not fight) was the wrong one.

At the ages they were, their opinions (formed from parent alienation) were taken into account by the court. I would have inevitably lost if I had fought and I would have given my ex a front row seat to my heartbreak. So I didn’t and saved my other children from years of continuous toxicity.

It breaks my heart every single day but no, I would not change a thing.

Wow, definitely not. I’d stay single forever if it meant my son would stay.

From a purely practical perspective, changing schools will take a few weeks. Dad needs to make an in year admission application which takes around 10 days to go through the process. Is dad sure that the new school has spaces as it sounds very much like it would be over subscribed

Has your ex actually spoken to you about your son living with him or has it all come from an 11 year old.
There's no such thing as 'custody' anymore, even if you go to court the most likely outcome would be a 50/50 arrangement (could this be discussed as an interim arrangement to see if son genuinely wants to move) If this isn't possible, then how much time does your son spend at exes currently? Is there a way to extend this over the next 6 months or so? At 11 your sons 'wishes and feelings' will be listened to, there's no 'fight' to be had, more a discussion as to how this could work so that it's in the best interests of your son (for example starting by slowly extending the amount of time he spends at dads) No court will decide that if your son has spent time with dad up to now that he suddenly is unfit to parent basically for longer hours.
I had all this with my son, but it actually turned out that ex didn't want him 'full time' and son had simply caught parts of adult conversation. Mediation is a good idea as it sets out expectations clearly and also when your son would be staying with you. We extended the amount of time my son was with ex instead, which seemed to work ok, though due to how ex proved to be not so great son now aged 23 has no contact with him at all.
My advice would be take it slowly, explain to son about the process involved in changing schools and see how that evolves. Year 7 is tricky because the new school will often be oversubscribed at the start of this term.

OP, I don't understand why you have said there is nothing you can do?

As a parent, you need to think about the following:

1. Will all your son's physical need be met? Will he be well fed with healthy food, have the clotheing he needs, have his own room? Will his ex happily pay for his stuff? Only you know.

2. Will your son's mental and emotional needs be met? Will he feel safe, encouraged and happy? Will your ex be able to handle the hormonal teenager years? You called you ex narcissistic and manipulative so it sounds like the answer is no., he won't meet these needs.

3. Will your son be encouraged to have a good relationship with both parents? The answer is no because your ex is swearing at you in front of him and lying about you to him.

Your son is 11. He is easily led against what might be his best interests. Even a court would never solely take into account his opinion.

If you wanted to, you could definitely have a say as his parent, at least until you are 100% sure that you can say yes to all the above points. If your ex kicks up a fuss, you can apply for a court order. It might be worth it if you are doing what is best for your son rather than him living all the time with a manipulative person who is trying to destabilise his relationship with his own mother.

He is only 11. If this was in family court, his views would be considered, but not necessarily acted on. Maybe he has just got the jitters about starting secondary school and it’s not really about his dad at all. I’d make him stick with the school you have currently chosen until at least Christmas, see how he gets on. The life lesson there is that as adults, we can’t chop and change & have to stick with things sometimes.
As an aside- if your ex is narcissistic, having your 11 year old son live with him could really shape who he becomes as he grows into a young man.

I would make DS's first year of secondary as uneventful as possible. Thus, I would agree that if DS wishes to live with Dad when he is older, you and DS will research schools near Dad ready for his second year.
All rests with DS doing his best in first year and showing that he is mature enough to manage.

Transitioning to high school will be tough and moving full time with Dad will also be tough so you, Op, need to insist that you will be with him, assessing his readiness and helping choose his school for in one years time.

Personally I think you need to say gently that more time is needed and you will help him come to his decision but not in 1.5 weeks, that you will look towards say going in January (or the following school year).

then be pro active in whatever has been suggested by others to get him focused but all the way tell him ideally you don’t want him to go.

my DD age age 15 I made spend the whole six weeks summer with her DF and his girlfriend with no coming home (as she’d always wanted to live with her dad once she was 16 ) to get used to a normal living arrangement and not rosy coloured weekends. An hour drive from me.

in the end she chose to stay with me as it was as I thought not quite what she wanted but she had to find that out for herself.

also, I’d tell him that if he went and it didn’t work out he could come back but he’d be back for good, no yo-yo ing between.

I would be saying you need to start school with your friends. Then give a date to reassess. The first term always seems to be a tough one. But I would also be honest with him. What dad says about you isn’t ok. Point out that the material things are not essential. My worry would be once the novelty wears off dad will be calling him the names etc. Your ex seems manipulative and he has probably moved this behaviour onto your son.

He’s not gonna settle into your senior school because he’s got both feet in the other one. I’d let him go.

my son taking on his dads negative traits has always worried me, I sometimes overcompensate by babying him I suppose.

i have had an honest conversation with my son about how I want him to be made up of both our positive traits and not our negatives, as I’m obviously not perfect too

i have noticed my son respecting me less the last few months, partly age and pushing boundaries but I’m sure the negative views from his dad/ grandma are seeping in too. This is one of the causes for our arguments, although these are nothing more than normal parenting arguments, which I’m sure he’ll have there too, example refusing lights out at bedtime etc

I personally would tell your son that he can move in with his Dad if he still feels the same in 6 months. It's such a big decision to make on a whim.

In years to come he may resent you for not finding a back bone and being the parent who does what is actually best for the child - that is stopping the child making bad choices/decisions.

Please please please fight for your son, I lost my son to my narcissistic ex when he was 11 and haven’t had a relationship with him since, he has been completely alienated from the maternal side of his family since inc his older sister (obvs my dd) and they was so close. I thought so hard to keep him with me, it went through the courts but my son was hellbent on going he was as big as me and getting violent towards me and my daughter so in the end I had to let him go thinking that I’d have him the same amount of time that my ex had been having him previously which was every other weekend and every Wednesday but unfortunately as soon as he went he said he didn’t want to come with and started spouting shit about my family and I that wasn’t true, he has completely fallen for his dads lies inc that he was removed from my care by social services (never the case) I also still have his younger brother living with me and would only see my older son on drop off’s/pick ups and both he and his dad was always hostile towards me and my mother. He is 22 now and assaulted me 2 years ago so I haven’t seen him since as my parents do the hand over of younger son now, I’ve been married for 10 years and have 2 younger sons and he hasn’t met any of them and don’t want to either although he met all his dad’s girlfriends (and there has been many many women) his dad is a bully but is his idol and he is now a clone of him. It’s a heartbreaking situation that I will never get over. Please don’t let your son go until he is able to form his own opinions and not swayed by others