AIBU to not fight for custody

[Franklekirk]

I’m in a really awful situation. Very outing but my 11 year old son came home on Sunday and told me he wants to move in with his dad. We split up 3 years ago and son has been with me since, sees his dad every other weekend and half the holidays.

son found the divorce very difficult to accept and has had counselling at primary school. We’re very close. dad wanted him to live with him, I’ve always said sons choice.

dad is very manipulative/ narcissistic. Over the years him and his mum have constantly bad mouthed me to my son, which he has found very upsetting. All sorts but things like calling me a “fucking fat pig”, making up all sorts of reasons he divorced me (I eventually kicked him out after numerous affairs), and telling me son they’d call social services on me but I’d lie to the social worker (I’ve said I’d welcome this as there is nothing to report).

however he’s obviously had a nice couple of weeks there with 1 week abroad. He’s told me he wants to move there for the start of secondary. Problem is this is 2 hours away so would mean moving to a school he’s not looked around (but his cousins go there).

my sons been sold a lifestyle, such as being told maintenance should go to the child so he can have a football season ticket etc whereas we don’t have spare finances (I do work full time in a well paid job but have a very expensive mortgage im
tied into which is another story of ex….).

as well as the huge financial implication on me, but this doesn’t effect the decision as that’s my issue not his.

I obviously want to fight to keep him but I don’t think it’s the right decision as legally his dad can keep him as we have no custody agreement, my son wants to go and at 11 gets a say. Yes ex is a prick but my son still has contact with him and will actually be nicer to him if hes “won”.

im arranging mediation to give my son someone impartial to speak to but we only have 1.5 weeks until he starts secondary and would starting here as planned and moving a couple of months later impact him
negatively?

Everyone says I should fight but I think I should listen to my son. Please help, I’m lost

I think whatever decision you make will be manipulated by your ex.

I cant give any advice but I would very much worry my child would be fed a line that he was abandoned by his mother which would really hurt your relationship with your son.

Are there even any places in the school at his Dad's?

It doesn’t sound like you want to keep your son op. You are listing all of the reasons why your abusive ex should have him, rather than asking for advice as to how you can keep your child safe.

Ih your place my child wouldn’t be going to his father’s house for the rest of the holidays as he has only just been there for an extended period.

I would start proceedings for a legal arrangement on Monday, and have custody confirmed with a court order. My child would start school as planned in just over a week, and given he is a child I would say he is welcome to choose where he lives when he is old enough to understand that his father is abusive, and it’s not a safe environment to live full time in your view. He is too young to understand at the moment.

I would be seriously concerned my son would absorb such abhorrent misogynistic views, and would be moving heaven and earth to avoid this scenario - you might lose your child altogether if you allow this arrangement to go ahead.

Hi OP.
Im in a very similar situation to you but my son is nearly 14 so a little older .
My ex is an abusive lying narcissist and he very nearly broke me . My sons both decided to stay with him which broke my heart but now I’ve just found out they are moving over 2 hours away which has absolutely broken my heart .
I too have been unsure on whether to speak to a solicitor regarding custody etc but I have personally decided against it . Children age 10-12 have their preferences taken into account if they express them maturely . Children age 13-14 end up having their opinions given more consideration. And I know it’s breaking my boys hearts that I’m hurting, I also know I don’t want to put them in a custody battle and make them choose . My children’s happiness is my number 1 priority and they know they will always be welcome here with me no matter what . They have their sister here too . It’s been so hard for me , fighting cancer , homelessness and my ex cheating on me but my god it’s been hard for my children too.

Just let him go. He’s 11, he’s made his choice now. If you force him to stay with you, he will resent you. You have to respect his wishes.

I do agree, Mum is always seen as the default parent. It’s infuriating.

dad is very manipulative/ narcissistic. Over the years him and his mum have constantly bad mouthed me to my son, which he has found very upsetting. All sorts but things like calling me a “fucking fat pig”, making up all sorts of reasons he divorced me (I eventually kicked him out after numerous affairs), and telling me son they’d call social services on me but I’d lie to the social worker (I’ve said I’d welcome this as there is nothing to report).

this sounds like parental alienation. There is no law against it, but it is definitely a thing, it may already be too late if you've been the bigger person and not criticised the father, but he has been pumping lies and distortions into your sons head. It's evil, abusive but unfortunately the damage is possibly already done. I'm not saying you should just give up, but it sounds like youre taking the pragmatic view of what's best for your son. He may or may not thank you for that in decades to come. For now, the best you can do is be guided by his expressed wishes. It will save your sanity if nothing else.

Because his dad is a narcissistic bully (your words).

Do you think part of this could be nerves about starting at high school? I agree with the previous poster about giving it until Christmas and then he can decide.

Statistically women do tend to be the default parent whether you like it or not.

I don’t like it because it devalues women into the caring and sacrificing role.

Because although he is 11 he is still a child and doesn’t see the full picture.
It may really impact your relationship further down the line after he realises that things with his dad are not a bed of roses after all
Have a really honest conversation with your son explaining that you want him to stay with you and that if he decides that he wants that you will do all you can to make it happen

You need to fight. Don't worry about not having a custody arrangement. The courts don't uphold a lot of these family court issues anyway. I broke our custody arrangement off my own back, when my ex started pushing boundaries showing our 6 year old kid 15s movies and smoking drugs during visits, which I had no proof, only my kids word and them waking up with nightmares. I couldn't let the visits continue. I was never pulled up on it in court. It was up to my ex to challenge it through the courts. He never did

I had a similar situation and I let him choose, and I now wish I had fought for him. I didn't want to put him through it, but we have grown less and less close over the years now, and I wish I could turn back the clock. Equally, as a PP said, he could have then ended up resenting me.

Why would you willingly let your young son live with a narcissistic bully?

The fact is that dad is assuming the local school has spaces. This may not be the case and you won't be able to find out until school starts. Even then it will be a process.
I take it he was excited to start his new school. I think you play this tactically - 'ok son. Well you need to start school as planned. - once you start i can call the other school to see if there is a place. If so we can arrange for you to go on a visit - we can sort a Friday or Mondau and dad can either collect you early or drop you home.' This buys you some time and gives him time to settle back with you and get back in with his mates here.
You might find his perspective changes.

I’d seek mediation and I’d also seek a route to get the parental alienation documented. Why have you avoided a custody arrangement previously?

As PP say, your son will at least get a clear sign you fought for him. You can do this in a way that makes clear he has a voice but he’s old enough now to know that it’s a bit more complicated than a few fun weeks in the school holidays… make clear that this process is about ensuring the best possible care and future for him.

It’s a bit telling too that you’re stuck with an expensive mortgage. Sounds like ex and his mum literally want to leave you with nothing. That would also make me come out swinging.

If he doesn't return him you can apply to court for a court order to return him. He's only 11! It's not in his interest for him to just simply up and move to his father without any discussion or planning! And surely you'd be expecting to see him even if his dad didn't return him on time? He lives with you until you both agree otherwise.

It's really not as simple as have custody confirmed with a court order - I don't recommend OP applies to court unless she absolutely has to because he won't return him or allow him to start at the school he is due to start at. You don't just apply to court and get a court order rubber stamped. It's an incredibly long, stressful and potentially expensive process that often leads to very different outcomes to the ones you wanted.

Hmm... At his age, I did choose to live with my Dad...

He was offering what was to me, the fairytale life - countryside, ponies etc etc.

I knew what life with my Mum was like and ... it wasn't great, so the carrot being dangled was bloody fantastic.

The reality was, he could not parent two ND children, one Dx, one not, whilst building a house, having done next to zero solo parenting for 12 years.

I spent most of that summer parenting him.

I started school, it was fking awful, none of the promises were true, he moved the goal posts constantly. Within three months I was back with my Mum because i figured that at least I'd be separated from my younger sister and that would make life easier (and it did).

I do think you have to let him have some input - but not right this second, no.

To make a decision, he needs more facts - he does not have those, and yet thinks he does.

So I think you need to give him some facts, show him, without outright telling him his Dad is full of shit, why you make the choices you do - ie, here's our finances, this is what living in the house with food and bills and mortgage costs each month. Here's what comes in. Where do you think you'd find the money for a season ticket from - would you choose to go without the internet? TV? Phone? Car?

Just counter some of the promises or stupid suggestions his Dad has made with facts, let him come to the conclusion that perhaps his Dad doesn't always speak sense or truth.

I'd also have some conversations about how life on holiday can seem fantastic, but real, full time life in that same place might not be. The grass is not always greener etc. It can certainly seem much more appealing to stay in the nice holiday place where theres loads of fun and his Dad is nice to him... vs attending a new school without any extra nice holiday 'icing on the cake'.

I’d probably also let him go at 11. Only issue I guess is how easy (or not) will it be to get another secondary place if it doesn’t work out? His dad sounds awful, but at 11 even if it went to court his wishes would heavily be considered and his dad might be a prick, but doesn’t mean he won’t care for his child. I guess only you know that from his visits there. Assume he will come to you every other weekend and half holidays? Just be aware that as kids get older, they often want to reduce time with NRP for friends. You could end up going a while without seeing him.

This.

You apply for an emergency court hearing so he can explain in front of a judge why he unilaterally decided to change his son's place of residence and secondary school without even discussing it with you.

This is a good idea.

I'd also point out that there is more to parenting and more to being a family than having lots of money and buying your child whatever they want.

"DS, the money that your dad has to pay me isn't pocket money. It is to help me with the costs of raising you. Because you are here all the time and I am the one who has to pay for things like the food you eat, your phone, your school uniform and your activities. I also have to spend a lot of money each month paying for this house so that you and I have somewhere safe and comfortable to live. None of that is cheap, and it is much more difficult for me to pay for it all on my own than it would be if your dad and I were still together. So no, I can't afford to just give you that money. There's nothing to stop your dad choosing to give you more pocket money if he wants to though. Being a parent is about love, and about making sure your child's physical and emotional needs are met before anything else. I might not be able to afford for you to have a football season ticket, but I love you, I know how to care for you and look after you, and I will always fight for you. If you go to live with your dad full time, you might have more expensive stuff, but that doesn't mean you will necessarily be happier."

It’s not about being the default parent in this situation though is it. It’s about the fact that she is a parent - that fact doesn’t change - and the other parent is manipulative and cruel. It’s about protecting her child.

We would advise the same to a father if the emotionally unstable mum of his child, who lived 2 hours away, unilaterally wanted to change the current arrangements in an extreme way during the summer holidays.

She needs to fight not because she is the default parent but because she is a parent, and a parent needs to fight to protect their child’s childhood and future. The only innocent party in all this is her son.