To think single mothers are judged harshly because deep down society still thinks kids need fathers more than mothers admit?

[ByFirmTealViewer]

The way single mums get talked about is brutal. AIBU to think it’s because people still believe kids fundamentally need fathers, even if no one says it out loud?

I think that single mothers are more spoken about with a sort of pity than with harsh judgyness. It's not what anyone wants for their child is it?

Maybe harsh judgements for women with multiple children with multiple fathers. But I've not heard anything negative about single mothers in real life from anyone under 60. Mostly you hear about how hard they have it.

Human relationships are more complex and nuanced than simply ‘shopping for a product’.

Think there's quite a lot to unpack here:

First off it is mainly misogyny: people like to attack women for the way they raise their children, whether its their fault or not (see the endless SAHM vs WOHM threads).

There's also a hangover from the days when single mothers were considered morally unsound (Margaret Thatcher went to war with us in the 80s). That's receded a lot but not 100% and there's a percentage of people who think single mothers are feckless benefit scroungers who can't identify a "good" man or can't say no etc.

I think some people do think that all families need a father for reasons which are part true, part cod science. I think having a genuinely good and committed father plus a mother is optimal, unfortunately many fathers are not optimal. A lot of people struggle to admit to themselves that their traditional family setup isn't as great as they would like it to be so they like to hold onto the idea that "at least the family is together". When in fact in my view a family headed by a good, strong and solvent single mother is most of the time better than one with a suboptimal father. But I agree that its ridiculous to attach blame to the mother when in the majority of cases its the father that has chosen to leave.

I think there's a more recent phenomenon as well in the workplace where men in coupled households resent single mothers for the "accommodations" they need to raise their kids (earlier leaving times/flexible working etc) because they feel they come at their expense. I've been on the receiving end of this and it's usually just that they don't like having to face the fact that women can make a decent living and run a household without a Big Swinging Breadwinner who has to have his wife at home "facilitating" his breadwinning. This is mainly just insecurity and not liking having to face that women are often quietly much more efficient at getting things done.

i am not sure how many single mothers are actually arguing that children do not need fathers, though?

Most women who are single mothers have been left to it, or they have carefully weighed up the negatives of being a single parent with the negatives of staying in a relationship which has some kind of serious problem.

No-one becomes a single parent for the shits and giggles. And in many, many cases mothers are facilitating contact with men who take as little financial and practical responsibility as possible, and/or have been abusive to them, precisely because they believe that children need fathers.

I think it’s because society blames women for men leaving but also blames women for not seeing how shit the baby daddy was in the first place before she had children with him, and then blamed women gif not being able to make enoygh money to not to rely on benefits. Men = zero responsibility and zero accountability

Oh, and please, please do not pity me or my DC.

Pity does come up a lot, especially from people who think they’re being sympathetic. But that pity is still rooted in a judgement that single motherhood is automatically a ‘less than’ situation, which can feel just as undermining as outright criticism.

I raised my 3 now adult children alone after leaving their abusive father when the eldest was 4 and youngest was 1. I heard all manner of insulting shit including ‘should have kept your legs closed love’, ‘these are the bints draining us of our taxes’ and the wondering aloud of what I must have done to ‘drive away’ the kids father.

In reality I was working 3 pt jobs to fit around the kids and school, taught a lunchtime club at the school based around a particular talent, went to every parents evening and volunteered to read with the school kids twice a week. Their father saw them one day per fortnight, and often didn’t turn up when he was supposed to. Paid the absolute minimum of maintenance possible and never showed up for our kids once.

There wasn’t a single insult that I ever heard aimed at him, just me, the one who chose to not subject them to that piece of crap, the one who was there the entire time, the one who was doing literally everything they needed and giving them everything I had.

So no, in my experience the shit that single mothers get is nothing to do with kids ‘needing’ a father, It is pure misogyny.

Many single mothers did not choose to be a single mother. In my case I was dumped by my fiancé when my DD was 8 months old.

@RabbitsEatPancakes

I think that single mothers are more spoken about with a sort of pity than with harsh judgyness. It's not what anyone wants for their child is it?

It may not be what anyone sets out to achieve... but I think in a lot of cases a happy, solvent household headed by a single mother can be happier than one with a man and a woman who no longer like or respect each other trudging along "for the kids".

A lot of my friends are single mums (as was I until about three years ago). I don't think anyone pities us, I've certainly never been told anyone pities me. We're all solvent with good jobs, we maintain happy, calm and efficient households, we have good friends (probably more so than we would if we were married) and a good and active social life. Our kids are healthy and doing well at school and have strong female role models.

What's not to like?

No I think it's the opposite. ie they are terrified we shine a light on the fact that they don't.

Indeed. But they often are apparent from the outset. We see posts here all the time from women who describe rubbish men, realise or are told they're rubbish men, but still talk themselves into staying with them and having children because they fear ending things and starting over and/or running out of time.

👏

Assuming it is always one sided and always the mans fault is problematic

Most single mothers aren’t saying fathers don’t matter, they’re just dealing with the reality they’ve been left in. I think what I’m getting at is that despite that, the public narrative still frames mums as the ones at fault, even when they’re the ones holding things together.

I think if that was the reason then society would look down on fathers who abandon their families more than the women who hold it all together for their children singlehandedly.

At the end of the day, it boils down to selecting a mate. Too many women compromise on this because they're desperate to be mothers.

@Thepeopleversuswork

I agree, single mother is better than bad relationship with 2 parents.

Pity is the wrong word but I'm struggling for the right one. We all know it's not ideal and in 99% of cases not what was planned. I didn't mean to say it couldn't be a good outcome, but you'd have to agree it's usually plan B come good than what everyone dreams of when pregnant.

I mean the birth rate is decreasing in almost every developed country... so I don't think this is more company. On the other hand our economic system relies on women doing this so they should not be punishing them for it.

Also, how many men are willing to lie and deceive to get a woman? It is a whole lot. You can never really know a person - look at thew Gisele Pelicot case, look at the chatrooms with >7K men recording and sharing videos of them abusing their wives, daughters, sisters, mothers... who are unsuspecting.

Blaming women is not the solution.

I’m not blaming women, I’m saying they must bear some responsibility for, where applicable, knowingly choosing a low-quality mate to father their children.

Children do need a mother and a father (or whoever their two parents are): it's the absence of a living parent from a child's life that does the most damage, the knowledge that one of their parents has chosen something else over them.

I do agree with pps: in my world nobody "judges" single mothers. I have a couple in my circle: I feel bad for how hard they have to work to juggle work, children, relationships, how they fall over themselves to basically apologize for not being "typical", and feel so sorry that they have to navigate everything alone. I worry they must be lonely once their children are in bed. I'm also crazy envious of their holidays when the children are with their dads but that's a different matter!

But as for judging them: if I judge anything it's any person's inability to form lasting relationships. Children don't come into it, doesn't matter if male or female. I admit I think there must be something wrong with this person that they can't make a relationship stick. If children are involved, the extent of my judgement is that adults shouldn't be having children on unstable footings, but it's never that straightforward.

Most of them do though. They are left dealing with the consequences. I just don't think most women are knowingly choosing poor partners. I think many men do make bad partners though at best and dangerous ones at worst and we don't have a crystal orb to see the future. What does society want? For most women just not to take the risk? Look at the 4B movement in South Korea. Many women are opting out and I think society will hate that far more than single mothers.

I mean marriages lasted longer when women had no freedom or autonomy. To maintain a relationship with many men or you need to do is be a dummy and accept a lot of poor behaviour. I do not think that is a good thing at all. So many of our grandmothers and great grandmothers were accepting cheating, abuse etc etc a long time does not mean a good time.

my friend was at a christening recently were the priest made such a fuss about the fathers and called them up to light a candle which is not the norm. He was clearly singling out a single mother who was getting her child baptised. It’s struck me how this woman was made to feel like she should feel shame when actually she’d stepped up for a child and the person who should be shamed, the dead beat dad was getting away Scott free. Society had always demonised single mothers when actually the shame should be on the fathers who abandoned their responsibilities.

I think women are judged harshly for a lot of things. ALOT! Shame is our name and it's all because of societal standards. Hence so many women are afraid to leave their marriages. Fear of becoming a statistic and carrying the stigma. A woman is expected to "keep her home standing". "Keep a man". Women are called names like slut/ slag. Names like that don't apply to men. As soon as a woman divorces with kids, "her value decreases"( not my words, a male friend of mine once said this) imagine. The audacity.. I have never had people talking about a divorced man like it's a big deal. In fact he gets praised. However, I have realized that men stand together. Supportive of each other through their nonsense. A woman will call another woman a slag or bring shame to whatever situation they find themselves in. So even though men shame us. The downfall of a woman is another woman. We are very quick to break each other down..