To have limited sympathy with ds with these GCSE results or am I to blame?

[coffeerevelsrule]

I am starting to struggle with the way ds has reacted to his GCSE results, though I also feel a bit guilty and din't know if I should have done more to improve them.

So he got 3x 8s, 4 x 7s, 2 x 6s and failed further maths - taught in hour long sessions once a fortnight after school in Y11 only. One of the 6s was a subject he had originally had as his top A level choice (chem) but he'd been wobbling on that for a while, probably as he suspected it wasn't going as well as it could have. My original reaction was to be thrilled and proud (and a tiny bit relieved) but as his mood has dipped so has mine.

Background is his brother got all 9s 2 years ago and has just got all A stars and an Oxbridge place. He was also head boy, captain of a sports team, very confident all round and insanely driven. I wouldn't say gifted but very competitive and very strategic in how he approached study, revision, Oxbridge prep - everything. DS2 is much quieter, not sporty and not driven. He's bright, whatever that actually means, but not competitive and not especially hard working. Not lazy and actually diligent - would hate to get told off for not doing something, but not burning with curiosity or a desire to beat his best score, or that of his friend, either.

As an only child who's heard nightmare tales of sibling rivalry, I always feared his trying to compete with ds1 and coming up short so I have been careful not to push, not to compare and not to suggest ds1 is a role model to be emulated. I thought that was the right thing to do but now ds2 is disappointed with his results. He wanted a couple of 9s, he thinks he looks 'shit' compared to ds1 and he didn't want any 6s. 'Everyone' has done better, apparently. Maybe I gave the message that I didn't think him capable of what ds1 did, but this is not my view - I just didn't want to cause him stress or make their relationship toxic.

My patience is wearing thin. I didn't push but we did have many conversations about his work ethic, whether he was revising, what he was doing when he came across topics he didn't understand etc. He was always highly resistant to any input from me, insisted he knew best to the point of stubbornness. I also teach one of the subjects (his least fave) and was always offering to help with that, mark answers etc and he was highly resistant, though we did some. He got 7 in that in the end, which I think is good as he hated it but now he is complaining as another friend with a teacher parent got a 9 in that subject despite doing worse in the mocks than him. Yes, ds, but I offered more help and you barely took me up on it! In the mock he finished 25 minutes before the end and insisted 'everyone' had, despite my saying I had never come across high achievers who could do that in my subject, never. But he knew best. His Y10 mocks were a wake up call and he cried then too, but the Dec mocks were better (quite similar to these) so maybe that lulled me into a false sense of security, I don't know.

I feel like saying, 'if you wanted 9s you should have put more work in and listened to advice, now stop complaining!' Would this be unreasonable? His brother is bright but also hardworking and ds2 is less so. This is the consequence and it's hardly a disaster anyway. Or would that be too harsh? I really don't want the same at A level and I think those grades will ultimately be more important than these so I'm wondering do I need to handle it differently and toughen up from the start?

In short, have I let him down by allowing him to coast a bit? DS1 thinks so...

I think I’m a little bit triggered by your OP so I apologise if I’m misconstruing it. You have directly compared your children, probably as a mechanism to explain that you did well with one so it’s not your fault.

More so, you discussed one child with the other and got their opinion. My parents always did and still do this, fast forward to now, I’m a successful person with a good job and a comfortable life and my older sibling ‘golden child’ is still living at home at 44. I have distanced myself from them somewhat.

Your son will find his way, his results aren’t a reflection on you, it’s just what it is.

Also, I’m not sure how relevant exam results are or university degrees anymore but that’s a side point and not what you posted about!

Eh? There are no wanky words in OP’s posts, just basic English.

I don't think my parents actively compared us out loud, but I always got the impression that they thought my sibling NGS were the academic ones and "poor little Margaret" does her best, but just can't compete so the less said the better

I actually got better GCSE and same A-levels but didn't realise until well after (10 years plus) because even though I knew the grades, I still felt they must have done better so never thought about it.

I sometimes wonder how well I'd have done if I'd worked. 🤣

As a teacher, you’ll be aware that grade 9s are exceptional and only awarded to a small percentage of students. Remind him that he has a good set of results and will be able to do A levels. Some children work really hard to get 4s and 5s.

It sounds like you’ve approached this in the right way.

I think that in some ways, your son’s results could be more of a blessing than straight 9’s. Learning about failure and coming back from it is a really important lesson in life.

I agree with your view that he needs to learn to accept help when it’s offered, listen to people with more experience than him ( you!) and that you get out what you put in.

but how you deliver that message is key. He does need to be told he has done well ( he has!) , but that this is a good marker for A levels in that it shows he’ll need to change his strategy for them.

And some. Children don't get them no matter how hard they work . The whole gcse system isn't fit for purpose for alot of kids.

I think that your son did well. For lots of children those results would be amazing. Only you know if your son could have achieved more. The vast majority of children would never get the results your older son got no matter how hard they worked.

His results are amazing, today is not the day for a post mortem.. DH has tried the same here and I'm not happy.. today is about celebrating what he got and not what he could have got. It must be so hard having a very high achieving sibling.

If every child in the country got 90% the grade boundaries for a 9 would be something like 99% .. not every child can get all 9s.

He may have not worked as hard as he could (I found mine face down asleep on a past paper and it wasn't from overwork!!) but today is about what he got not about looking at revision technique, emotions are too high and comments about disappointment stick for a long time.

I've told him:

• there's an element of luck with where the grade boundaries fall
• Grade 9s are exceptional and only a tiny minority get them in each subject
• Ds1 set out to get all 9s and did all he could to achieve that. Ds2 didn't and in many ways that was a good choice
• I did fine in my GCSEs, very well in my A levels and excelled in my degree - we don't all peak at the same time
• I didn't want two ds1s as I have one already - I am so lucky to have the two of them
• He needs to acknowledge what he might do differently if he wants a different outcome
• No doors have been closed as a result of this
• I'm very proud - these are fantastic

This is stuff I have said today and after the mocks. I don't know where people ae getting the idea it's me being critical - I haven't been. We are having takeaway tonight to celebrate, which was planned all along and his choice.

Wow, comparing him to his older brother!

I used to get my brothers achievements rammed down my throat, so I never tried. As it happens I achieved a much more successful career than he did, in spite of all his exam results. Give the lad a break!

Good advice. You need to take a coaching approach. ‘If you’re happy what do you feel went wrong? What will you do differently?’ How can I support that?

I told you so will not help either of you. Think it, don’t say it!

Did you even read OP’s posts?

Your son is moving towards adulthood, if you want this to be an opportunity for him to grow, perhaps model that in bringing him into a more adult conversation. Tell him you are unsure of how to respond as you have always had it mind not to compare your children (which by the way I think is a good strategy unless you want your children to dislike one another) however you wonder if you have done the right thing? Let him think through the impact for himself of having an older brother who is both very able and hardworking and a mother who loves both.

You can also tell him you are a little frustrated and whilst you don't wish to give him a hard time when he is already doing that to himself - you feel you offered advice and support but it wasn't taken up, ask him what he thinks you could have done differently?

This way you are letting him know you want an honest conversation going forward - not be a nagging parent stuck in rinse and repeat mode but to be a supportive parent who will help but also needs an invitation. He can use this opportunity to learn a different approach. He has good people in his corner but he has to figure out what he needs if he wants a different outcome.

Stop comparing him to your other child, just because one of your children is off to Oxford with 30 A's doesn't mean he is in any way better than your 16 year old who just got his GCSE's. The most successful people I know did not do great in their GCSE's, some didn't even go to university. Your son feels how he feels because how you are acting, you clearly put a lot of focus on getting top marks. Your son's grades are actually good, he's living in his brother's shadow and you really aren't helping by seeming to only value 9's. You are basically saying "look how well I did with my eldest child, my youngest child clearly didn't work hard as the other one did so well,". Your son should be proud of his achievements, you sound awful to be honest.

Did you read my post? I haven't done that. In fact I have avoided doing that or anything like it and am now concerned that insufficient pushing/pressure may have led to him under-achieving, which he thinks he has. I don't regret not out and out comparing though. I think maybe he could have done better but that doesn't change the fact that I am pleased with and proud of his results. If he felt the same I would not have posted and would be celebrating with him now - though the pizza is on it's way anyway and I've suggested a film, which he's considering.

Totally agree!

You have my sympathies OP. My DC1 is like your DC1 - incredibly bright, hardworking and strategic. Graduated last year from a top university with a 1st and now got a good job, with trips abroad etc.

I always felt sorry for DC2 following in DC1s footsteps, although DC2 did work very hard and came out with 3 x B at A-Level and is now a student. DC2 had terrible anxiety all through school. Just after completing A-Levels, a random conversation made me realize that DC2 was dyslexic (confirmed a few months later with a formal assessment). About a year after that, DC2 was really struggling with some aspects of uni life and it dawned on me that they probably had ADHD (now formally diagnosed). DC2 had a very rough ride at school - following in the absolutely brilliant footsteps of DC1 and struggling with undiagnosed and untreated dyslexia and ADHD. Poor thing!

He will very likely end up doing as well, if not better, in life than his brother. Super high achievers don't necessarily always continue on that way throughout life. I am reminded of my college friend and I. She was always top of the year, won every prize going, etc. I was more mediocre-I still got a 1st but I wasn't as outstanding a student and I just didn't work as hard. One would assume that she would be much further in her career than I am. I assumed that she would be. She isn't. We are in similar fields and I am about three levels of seniority above her.

@coffeerevelsrule i think you’ve done a great job!

so many people on here desperate to say you’re comparing him to DS1 when you’re only adding context. So much projection going on!

enjoy the takeaway!

So he got more than enough to go to college / 6th form, which is great news and something to be proud of. Plus these are fab results. It’s only his brothers from 3 years ago that are pouring water in them. Tell him how proud you are, remind him he has done so well. This is a day for celebration not reflecting.

Very similar sibling situation. My son is highly competitive and driven, insanely intelligent, achieved all 9s in iGSCEs and 3 A*s in A level and now doing Bio Chemistry at uni. Daughter is intelligent but not of the same calibre and she knows it. Everything comes easy for him but she has to work to achieve..and she does. Got all 9s and 8s at iGCSEs and 3As last week at A level. I never compare them, I never say oh why can you be like your brother etc but I’ve never done this even as little children. They’re each their own person and we’re all different. I’m sure your son is only too aware that he could have done better and I’d be inclined to point this out as I think it’s a learning point…often you get what you put in? Say it once and then don’t keep bringing it up. Sit down and discuss his options. Just be aware that there is quite a jump from gcse to A level and if he struggled with one, he won’t find it easy at the nx level. I’ve always told my kids that if they’re not good at something or haven’t tried hard enough, I’d tell them..but it’s done out of love and wanting them to do better not to hurt their self esteem and feelings. After all, I’m their mum and I love them more than life itself so if I can’t tell them, no one will..

"look how well I did with my eldest child, my youngest child clearly didn't work hard as the other one did so well,"

That's the biggest bullshit. DS1's achievements are not down to me. The boys are their own people and I often stop and ask myself how did I make two such amazing but different people and how the fuck, as a parent, am I supposed to know how to handle everything, what to do, what to say to do the best by my children. Seeing ds disappointed today (not me, ds himself) made me question whether I was to blame in some way, that's all.

Oh gosh it's so hard. My parents were hands off; given what my teachers said every parents evening, I underachieved. In a way I guess I would have liked more discipline, but I think this a classic case of 'hindsight' and you can't say how I would have behaved had that been in place.

My DH is like your DS1 and is already setting up my DS with a serious work ethic - 'This is what I had to do; you aren't battling your score but your peers. You have to go over and above if you want the best grades.' etc. etc. It's a tight rope between pressure and explosion; the extreme end of kids I've known (who've reacted badly to that pressure) is suicide and sectioning.

I think you should avoid losing your temper and practise acknowledge, move on, learn ad infinitum.

'I'm sorry you've ended up disappointed. We can't change what's happened but we can ensure this isn't repeated. We will support you again, should you want that. There's nothing stopping you getting amazing A-levels and university place but your own mindset.'

Yes. And don’t think that ds1 won’t repeat such conversations to ds2 because he will behind your back. So ds2 will know exactly what you’re thinking and feeling. Poor kid.

I learnt through experience of having two teens that you absolutely cannot 'make' them revise or work harder at school. It is down to them. If they really don't want to do something then they won't. You can of course love them, be kind to them and parent them but offering support and advice to 16 year olds about school is pretty tough at times!

The results are still very fresh in his mind and he will need time for them to settle before he truly appreciates how well he has actually done! I think you've done a great job OP; like you say, there's no bloody teen manual - we're all winging it as parents aren't we!

He will move on from this and it could actually be a good learning experience for him and make him push himself to achieve higher grades if that is what he wants to do.

The bigger issue here isn't the academic achievement or even work ethic - both sound fine. It's that the OP describes him as stubborn and "resistant to input", which is ultimately going to limit what he can achieve and how effectively he works, because he won't take advice from others.