To have limited sympathy with ds with these GCSE results or am I to blame?

[coffeerevelsrule]

I am starting to struggle with the way ds has reacted to his GCSE results, though I also feel a bit guilty and din't know if I should have done more to improve them.

So he got 3x 8s, 4 x 7s, 2 x 6s and failed further maths - taught in hour long sessions once a fortnight after school in Y11 only. One of the 6s was a subject he had originally had as his top A level choice (chem) but he'd been wobbling on that for a while, probably as he suspected it wasn't going as well as it could have. My original reaction was to be thrilled and proud (and a tiny bit relieved) but as his mood has dipped so has mine.

Background is his brother got all 9s 2 years ago and has just got all A stars and an Oxbridge place. He was also head boy, captain of a sports team, very confident all round and insanely driven. I wouldn't say gifted but very competitive and very strategic in how he approached study, revision, Oxbridge prep - everything. DS2 is much quieter, not sporty and not driven. He's bright, whatever that actually means, but not competitive and not especially hard working. Not lazy and actually diligent - would hate to get told off for not doing something, but not burning with curiosity or a desire to beat his best score, or that of his friend, either.

As an only child who's heard nightmare tales of sibling rivalry, I always feared his trying to compete with ds1 and coming up short so I have been careful not to push, not to compare and not to suggest ds1 is a role model to be emulated. I thought that was the right thing to do but now ds2 is disappointed with his results. He wanted a couple of 9s, he thinks he looks 'shit' compared to ds1 and he didn't want any 6s. 'Everyone' has done better, apparently. Maybe I gave the message that I didn't think him capable of what ds1 did, but this is not my view - I just didn't want to cause him stress or make their relationship toxic.

My patience is wearing thin. I didn't push but we did have many conversations about his work ethic, whether he was revising, what he was doing when he came across topics he didn't understand etc. He was always highly resistant to any input from me, insisted he knew best to the point of stubbornness. I also teach one of the subjects (his least fave) and was always offering to help with that, mark answers etc and he was highly resistant, though we did some. He got 7 in that in the end, which I think is good as he hated it but now he is complaining as another friend with a teacher parent got a 9 in that subject despite doing worse in the mocks than him. Yes, ds, but I offered more help and you barely took me up on it! In the mock he finished 25 minutes before the end and insisted 'everyone' had, despite my saying I had never come across high achievers who could do that in my subject, never. But he knew best. His Y10 mocks were a wake up call and he cried then too, but the Dec mocks were better (quite similar to these) so maybe that lulled me into a false sense of security, I don't know.

I feel like saying, 'if you wanted 9s you should have put more work in and listened to advice, now stop complaining!' Would this be unreasonable? His brother is bright but also hardworking and ds2 is less so. This is the consequence and it's hardly a disaster anyway. Or would that be too harsh? I really don't want the same at A level and I think those grades will ultimately be more important than these so I'm wondering do I need to handle it differently and toughen up from the start?

In short, have I let him down by allowing him to coast a bit? DS1 thinks so...

How awful @TheaBrandt1 - that is exactly the kind of scenario I have been trying to avoid, and thought I had which was why I had avoided any pushing and was pleased that they were so different and ds2 wasn't showing signs of competing. To be fair, I don't think ds2 is upset he didn't get all 9s and he wasn't trying to achieve that. He's normally the first one to tell ds1 there's more to life than that etc. He just wanted one or two 9s, and it's the fact that his friends got that, including some who perhaps he had been outperforming, that has most upset him. Then he's started spiralling to comparing himself to ds1 as well.

Dd3(17) has a bf in year 11 who got his results yesterday. He has now gone radio silent - they normally message all day as he is so upset with his results. He did amazingly and I don't think there will be an issue with the A levels he wants to take but he's generally regarded as the year genius and he got 7, 8, 8 and 9 in the subjects he going to take to A level. There is so much pressure on youngsters today, mostly from themselves. When I was young if you got 5 O levels at grade C you were happy.

Mine go to a mixed comp and they don't care about the kids that don't pass or who struggle, they compare themselves to their friends who are also in the top sets. And very few schools will have multiple children who gets all 9s, there are more schools in the country than children who achieve that.

Both mine were top sets but had friends who struggled academically - I wouldn’t love it if my academic girls only socialised with other academic teens. Sounds like a recipe for utter boredom. Some of their kindest most fun pals didn’t get top grades and were thrilled to just pass maths.

It's a tough time, even though your DS did so well. I think the emotional rollercoaster takes a few days to settle.

Great that your eldest is so clever, but I think it's very harsh to blame you for not pushing hard enough. Your DS2 is a different child, with different needs so don't beat yourself up.

I've got a bright-ish kid. Some of her friends got straight 9s, but DD1 has SEN, brilliant in some areas, not so much in others. Her results were good, in fact great for her, but she was still feeling flat. Comparison is the thief of joy as they say.

FWIW I encouraged, sat with, helped, cajoled and bribed. She is just not an independent learner (see the SEN).

Could I have done more? Possibly. Would our relationship have suffered for it? Definitely.

Hope your DS settles soon OP. DD is definitely feeling better today.

Yes, he's not in a hothouse, just an ordinary comp but he only compares himself to his friends, not the entire cohort. As someone said upthread, they do tend to hang around with children of similar ability for the most part as they will be in the same classes.

The reality is gsces and a levels done matter. The only thing universities are bothered with is their ucas points. Doing a levels associated with a degree also doslesnt matter as they generally tell you to.forget everything.
Having a sen child ive watched parents and schools put so much pressure on kids they have gone into crisis.

This needs to stop

I think your DS1 wanted it for himself and did what he needed to make it happen. Your DS2 didn’t want it quite so much, from the sounds of it. And that’s a perfectly reasonable and rational approach. If he finds he would like to have worked harder, then he can - for A-level. But it has to come from him, not anyone else.

It’s tricky because at the end of the day, his results are very good and most kids would be thrilled with them. I think you can easily say to him that his results are great and won’t hold him back but if he’s complaining about the lack of 9s then he should have put in more effort to achieve that.

I have a very hardworking and high achieving dd1 and a bright and practical but academically more average dd2. Dd2 made a point of not trying and coasting through her GCSEs. I think part of that was so that she could say that she didn’t try anyway when she inevitably got lower grades than dd1. It doesn’t matter though. She got what she needed to do what she wanted at college and is flying. I remind her all the time that though dd1 finds maths easier, she finds life easier and tends to sail through things where dd1 gets super stressed.

your DS will get over it. I’m a few months no one will even care what his gcse marks were.

It’s hard though if one child gets all the lucky genes - especially if they are both boys. This was the case with Dh and his brother and it’s really hard.

Fortunately in our little family dd2 has other advantages (super sociable very cool stacks of friends etc) so she’s really not bothered that her academic results (whilst decent) aren’t quite as stellar as dd1s.

Yes I had this. As a result, I learned to never talk about the things I'd done well at, and as an adult, it pleases my mother especially that I have less than my siblings economically. I think it is more than possible that I have subconsciously engineered it that way.

I had it in a different way. I was considered the least academic, but the one who had the easiest life. Of my siblings one clearly had ASD and would nowadays be diagnosed at preschool age, the other one has become more and more clear as they get older that actually they do too.
I had the reputation in the family as being lucky and getting along easily with people. What this actually means in practice is that I put effort into being sociable, which doesn't come naturally for me. 😊

So conversations (even now go)
Me: I arrived at the venue and there was a sign saying they'd sold out, so I went to the booking office and asked, and they'd got a return so sold it to me.
Them: That was so cheeky going to ask
I'd have gone home rather than ask
Can't believe you did that.
All together: You're just soooo lucky!

They don't get that put a bit of effort in means you get "soooo lucky".

But that meant that dm seemed to feel that she had to talk down what I did do well. I never really understood why, because I didn't go round boasting, or even talking about what I did.
I remember hearing dm talking about playing the violin which me and one of my siblings did.
"Oh yes, Margaret plays the violin, has done for a few years. MSibling plays and has excellent bow control, if Margaret had that control, then she'd do so much better. MSibling sounds so good when they play."

You wouldn't know from that conversation that I reached a respectable grade 5 and DSibling failed their grade one 3 times over the same number of years playing.

Not really sure what is YABU and what is YANBU, but…

Basically tell him if he wanted to get better results he should have worked harder. Just make sure not to add “like your brother” at the end.

That's not true. My degree was very specific on grades. If I got lower than a A in French then I was out, regardless of how many UCAS points I made up with my other 2 subjects.

I'm presuming yours was French. So a specialised and focused degree. The reality of it is though the majority of degrees don't care. Icas points are the way they go.
As I've said. The pressure on students especially through gcses abd a levels is immense. The whole exam system needs re assessing. I nearly lost my child because of a crisis because of his school putting pressure on. So I really couldn't care less if I was wrong on your specific case.

That’s 9 GCSE’s at grades A & B? What is there to be disappointed about?

Totally agree - a 7 is still an old ‘A’ - bring back A,B,C - it’s made it so much more competitive and ultimately demoralising.

So my sister sounds similar to your oldest son. She was 3 school years above me and so, the year before I sat my GCSEs she toddled off to Cambridge. She'd always been very driven and knew she wanted to be a teacher from a very young age. I had no idea what I wanted to do (and even now in my 30s, I still don't have a passion for a particular career).
I put very little effort in to my GCSEs (I was very smart with revision strategies and never sat just revising, but instead just did past papers and marked them myself so I got an idea of the mark schemes and often the same questions pop up over the years. I actually didn't even read the books for English Lit, but knew exactly what they were looking for in terms of answers and quotes so managed to get an A* still). Despite the total lack of meaningful effort and my more laid back attitude, I'd have been disappointed if I didn't at least match my sister's grades, but this was a personal issue and nothing that related to my parents putting pressure on us. Luckily I did even better than her so I do like to remind her whenever I can!
I'd say that sounds like the issue here, he's upset with himself. Unless you notice him struggling to keep up with A levels and he looks like he needs advice, I'd just leave him be and carry on reiterating how proud you are of him. Not getting the grades he thought that he should at GCSE will probably give him a bit of drive to try a bit harder at A level now anyway.
He's allowed to feel disappointed in himself, but I think they're pretty awesome grades that will allow him to continue with any option he wishes for further education and that is the one and only use for GCSEs!

What degrees are we talking here? English language, Maths, Medicine, Dentistry, Vet Med, Art and Design, History, Sports Science, and Law all have subject requirements.

I'm sorry to hear about your child but you're wrong!

This is a good approach.

Hrft but I can't imagine I told you so is helpful right now.

How about offering options on retaking to improve or what he can do with what he achieved. Asking how he feels, not how he thinks he looks to others might be enlightening. And does he think a different approach to study would be useful.

I'm bright, reasonably clever IQ 120ish but struggle with exams. Likely I'm ND but too old to worry about that now. Maybe something you and Ds2 need to consider.

after shocking y10 mock results after being told be school for the past four years that was on track for 7/8 and getting 4/5 in mocks.

i paid for tutors in science and maths and bought all the revision books. I think we had 4 different publishers for maths gcse revision guides. My kid didn’t engage, didn’t push himself and just told himself that if he didn’t revise then he wouldn’t be disappointed. Crazy ideas! We yelled, cajoled, tried to bribe by saying we will pay you £X for grade 7 in core subjects. We begged, loved and gently reminded to revise. He chose not to and has to live with his choices.

I said I’m not working extra hours and overtime etc to pay for A level tutors. He needs to study if he wants to go to uni as you have to get a degree to be a paramedic now.

ooo

Where on earth is there room to do 10 subjects properly? We need to reduce the number of GCSEs taken. Probably no more than 7. Maybe not obsess so much about STEM subjects either and allow DC to do the subjects they like and not the ones they hate.

You can blame the bloody eBacc measure for that. That means they have to take English Lang and Lit, Maths, combined Science as a min, a language and geography or history. That doesn’t give them a chance to take all the other subjects they might enjoy, maybe 1 or 2. It means nothing to the child to do all the eBacc subjects and although the government say it’s to keep options open for further study and careers, most unis do not care if you don’t do all of the eBacc, they care that you have done relevant subjects for your course in some cases. I was told that it might improve your chances of getting a uni offer if you’ve done eBacc but they only care about A levels. Luckily, my kids school didn’t force eBacc on kids but did require English, Maths and Science but I know of friends whose kids were forced to do subjects they didn’t like.