To think if you're that fond/proud of your national flag, you should probably know which way up it goes?

[Nookfoot]

Of all the Union Flags that have appeared, a huge percentage seem to be upside-down.

Now, I agree with the basic sentiment that people should be able to display their national flag if they choose, that flags should be respected. I think it's very sad that the flag has been appropriated by right wing groups/views.

Which ever camp you fall in, if you're going to put it up, put it the right way up. They're really doing the opposite of respecting it other wise!

What you seem to be saying is that you didn't really read my post but took umbrage because I pointed out that you were wrong. You don't care why you were wrong and have learned nothing from the exercise and would do it all over again. I said 'willfully ignorant.' Thank you for providing such a good example.

But I thought your lot were going to put everything right long before Reform gets into power. Or were those just lies to get the votes?

Have you not noticed what is happening in the EU? It is collapsing from the inside. We were right to leave a sinking ship before it was too late. We are in a much better position to rebuild our nation than other European countries will be when the s**t hits the fan because we made the right decision on 2016.

Yes what evidence?

Or perhaps we should be offering asylum seekers safe routes into the country BEFORE they claim asylum??? Why is no one talking about that? That would eradicate these dangerous journeys altogether, surely?

I'm not sure how that would work. Do people make a claim for asylum in the UK, then are given safe passage to the UK while their claim is processed? Or does the UK have various processing centres and people's cases are determined there? We already take refugees from approved schemes eg Ukraine, Hong Kong and Afghanistan.

You are wrong. I refer you to “Union Foag or Union Jack?” from the flag institute. They concluded in their submission to parliament in 2013 that both names are equally valid wherever the flag is flown.

And, incidentally, that has been the case for at least 100 years.

That should, of course, be “Union Flag or Union Jack? You can google it.

😂😂😂😂😂

Many hauliers at the time were being fined huge sums of money if asylum seekers were found in or on their lorries. They were expected to check inside and outside, including the roof, even if they'd just stopped for a toilet break. It must have been a nightmare for them. My neighbour did haulage runs in Europe for many years but now just does the UK because of the hassle hauliers were facing with these stowaways.

Didn’t Birmingham city council ban union flags from being put up?

The school my kids go to ( normal primary school) don’t have nativity’s, they have a non religious event over Xmas.

They no longer allow or call it a nativity play and haven’t done as long as I can remember.

Flying flags is not banned. Attaching them to your own property, or elsewhere with the permission of the property owner. It is not legal to attach items to council property without their consent.

Oh ok thanks

Do you ever just take a break? Switch off, put your feet up and have a nice cup of tea. Soothe your mind, reset. Then you can take a moment to appreciate that The world outside your net curtains is really not that bad , people are generally kind and nice and can't be divided into specific groups. No ones drawing up battle lines in reality, we're all trying to get by the best we can.

Who are my lot?

No, they used existing laws to remove unauthorised flags being erected on public furniture.

Anyone can put a flag up in their own property.

That’s your schools choice.

My DC London have a nativity every year - your school has made a random choice, have you emailed about it and what was the response.

Obviously, it’s ok to give consent for some flags and not to others.

I was under the impression that bar a few specific schemes, most asylum seekers have to be in the UK in order to claim asylum. And therein lies the challenge: they have to get here, by whatever means necessary, in order to claim. There are no safe routes either, and so we have, instead, a range of dangerous and life-threatening routes overseen by traffickers.

I dont know what the alternative is, but I believe that if the government set up an online portal of some kind and processed applications prior to arrival, and offered safe routes for those approved, the traffickers would (hopefully) be out of business because who wants to cram themselves into the fake bottom of a lorry for three days straight or trek bare foot across an icy cold mountain for a month, if they could take a flight or a bus somewhere safely instead?

But for that kind of system to work, you would have to have a strict deportation policy for anyone arriving as they do currently. That's the only way I can see it working, really. Otherwuse desperate peopld will keep using traffickers. But the traffickers are the real problem, imo, not those arriving here. Deal with the traffickers and I think the immigration issue will sort itself out.

I think that is true of the Union Flag, (Union Jack at sea) as it would be apparent to other British ships, but not obvious to other nations.

The French flag would appear no different upside down or not, although possibly they were always distressed when approached by the British Navy in the 18th century?

Very hard to deal with the traffickers as it’s a global problem. You might ‘smash ‘ one gang but then other will appear.

Having the resources to hunt down these gangs from Africa or wherever they operate would take lots of money and manpower.

Alternatively a very tough government ( on immigration) like Poland and Hungary.

However , that’s unlikely to happen here in the UK with any mainstream party.

But if people wanting to leave their country could apply via proper channels and access safe modes of transport, they wouldn't use the traffickers in the first place. They wouldn't have to work unpaid for months, often illegal, to repay the trafficking debt, and they wouldn't have to get rid of their documents and hide in dangerous places when travelling.

Give these people a better way of travellng, grant them asylum and the right to travel, and these gangs' entire business model falls apart.

Same at my kid’s school. They celebrate Eid and other religious festivals - in a predominantly white, non-religious school (which is fine) but won’t allow a nativity. Songs are sung, but they are very much not religious at all.

Not sure what you're getting at. Our local council fly the St George's Cross on St George's day, armistice day, when the Lionesses won the football etc etc, the union flag many times during the course of the year - most recently the commemoration of VJ day, armed forces flags on armed forces day and around armistice day, pride flags during pride, Ukrainian flags in evidence over the last few years.

The town have union flag, St George's cross and county flag on permanent display at the war memorial.

Listening to locals, you'd think the only flags ever flown locally are pride and Palestinian. I don't think I've ever seen a Palestinian flag flown off county hall. But some people never let the truth get in the way of a good whinge.

Oh and nativity plays abound. I attend quite a few every year through work - they're hilarious and touching in equal measure, and the donkeys are always the stars.