DS 16 debagged at school

[Atomsplitter]

My 16 year old year 12 student has just disclosed to me that he was debagged/pantsed by another student while on his recent D of E expedition. Luckily he managed to hold on to his underwear but still very embarrassing 😳 He also said that the same student has been trying to do the same in the common room at school. DS has to tie his shorts really tight to prevent him from pulling them down. AIBU to think this is sexual assault? This person is not his friend and is a bit of a dick according to DS. He has targeted others too apparently, some have been totally exposed. I want to contact the school but DS doesn't want me to and won't tell me the students name.

And you would report it, maybe to the police - so you have made that first judgement call.

In the context of the situation with a group of teenage lads, it entirely depends surely on their relationship, and is up to him who has been de-bagged to decide on how he feels about the situation.

If the lads were not known to him, or engaged in bullying him, that is entirely different to the situation if it was his mates winding him up.

People weren’t offended ‘back then’ by boys pulling down girls’ knickers and exposing them. Wow

In the context of the situation with a group of teenage lads, it entirely depends surely on their relationship, and is up to him who has been de-bagged to decide on how he feels about the situation.

I wonder how honest that child would be with a teacher who has opinions such as yours. Would he feel comfortable in being honest about feeling as though he’d been assaulted?

[In the same way as you would not have to be able, as a lay person, to distinguish between Robbery & Theft if your purse was nicked before reporting the offence ..] - Report it anyway!
I'd start with the school, describe the event to whoever (Year Head / Safeguarding Lead / HT etc) - explaining that your son feels unable to name the offender.
They'll understand, they know young people. They may well know who the lad is, or have a fair idea.
They should involve the Police, but may well need more evidence i.e. others' statements before doing so - but the Police may well leave it up to the school to handle it, sanction-wise.

My concern is the effect it has had on your DS. Sexual motivation or not, the level of humiliation, emasculation and the worry going forward that it could happen again can have a profound effect on young people on any age.

Even if he knows/suspects it's you who talked to the school, he can still deny knowing for sure, but feel secretly relieved.

One of mine experienced something similar, but definitely sexual touching by a girl. It took him a couple of years to pluck up the courage to report it (to the Police) after he'd left.
Wishing you all the best!

No, it was a different time and we were quite conditioned to accept and laugh at that kind of behaviour. Quite awful with hindsight. What's your point?

At the time possibly, but we are surely assuming this lad has his own brain, is a sentient being, with his own ability to decide, after the fact, if he wants to raise a complaint or just leave it?

Oh well, as long as it’s creating entertainment then humiliating someone by exposing their genitals is okay then.

When was ‘back then’?

???
And how is that part of the analogy? No one said anything about addressing adults at school; surely you can see that being pantsed is still such a personal violation, regardless of age or sex.

I agree that this needs to be reported to the designated safeguarding lead at school - and the safeguarding email should be monitored over the summer holidays (and there will be people in the school office tomorrow anyway as its results day for GCSEs). It is definitely sexual harassment as it is intended to humiliate and it is definitely assault so whether or not it meets the definition of sexual assault is moot but it is definitely 2 types of crime.

I had this happen to my son when he was in school. Unfortunately his genitals were exposed, he then had people commenting on his genitals.
I had a meeting with the school and said I felt it was sexual assault, but I felt it was downplayed massively. The child who did it was removed from the school for a couple of weeks, but the damage was already done.
If we as adults did that to someone in public, there would be uproar.
But schools these days seem to want to brush everything under carpet and say it's just kids being kids. This was in secondary school, so the expectations of the students should have been somewhat higher than say kids in say reception.
You're right to feel that it's a sexual assault, as I felt the same.

Teenagers can always be relied upon to come up with some obnoxious way of having a laugh and finding it very funny.

Thankfully "upper-decking" has died out for now
(that's lifting the lid off the cistern and taking a shit in the tank) hilarious if you are 16 apparently!

No, you didn't answer my question.

You said that pantsing does no doesn't normally have a sexualized element. I replied, asking "you don't think there's a sexual element to trying to expose someone's genitals?" and you didn't address that in your reply.

Also, what's a "girl's version" got to do with anything? The OP's son is a boy.

Teenagers is a very broad range.

If this was done by 13/14 year lads then somebody should be telling them to grow up but an 18 year old should be getting a severe punishment with at least the mention of police involvement

Certainly, in this recent Scottish case, the perpetrator was originally charged with sexual assault. (The victim was a care home resident.)

As often happens in Scotland, he was allowed to plead guilty to an amended charge.

www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/scottish-carer-slammed-vulnerable-dementia-28680975

Just been on jury service for a case of ( amongst others) sexual assault . It was made very clear it had to pass the threshold of 1) forcible restraint - which this does 2) and to be sexually motivated eg forcibly kiss on the lips/ touch breasts/ genitals. Hard to say if your son’s schoolmate was sexually motivated but if he didn’t try and kiss / fondle your son it probably wasn’t. It is harassment and bullying though.

A boy in my school, back in the late 80s, had this done to him in front of the girl he fancied.

He suddenly stopped coming to class. We learned later that he had tried to take his own life and his parents moved him to another school.

Please do not ignore this.

Quite possibly not, I work hard to cultivate a public persona of being un-approachable about non educational trivia, consequently pupils only ever talk to me about educational matters - they know its best to go elsewhere for personal stuff - I'm not cold hearted, but it caused me a lot of extra work sorting all that stuff out back when I gave a cheerier air.

I always start my first 6th form tutorial of the year by making clear that if they want to talk science, technology, history, exams, careers I'm happy to talk all break time and after school - if their boyfriend has dumped them though, I'd strongly advise seeking counsel elsewhere - works a treat!

Contrary to comments by a few men on this thread:

1.) In all my years of teaching I have never once heard of a girl trying to expose another girl’s private parts, it is boys who indulge in this behaviour towards other boys, usually with the intention of causing embarrassment.

2.) It is not harmless horseplay, it can lead to real upset and more bullying. I remember a year 9 boy who had his genitals fully exposed in this way and was then repeatedly teased by others for months thereafter about having a small penis, which caused him genuine ongoing distress.

Sorry, just to confirm again - you think that somebody, in fact still a child in this case - should feel comfortable reporting being physically humiliated in a way that many people would consider a sexual assault, and if not, it calls into question them being a sentient being with their own brain? And in fact, to a person in authority who is repeatedly doubling down on downplaying these types of assaults? Holy shit.

Well, you think wrong.

Whether we are talking about common assault or sexual assault, the victim's perception is not relevant to determining whether or not a crime occurred. Both are determined by an objective standard.

If the victim doesn't "feel" assaulted, that certainly reduces the chances of a crime being reported, a charge made or a case persued - and context is relevant, but in an objective sense.

The law defines sexual assault, not the victim - and hearing a teacher repeating the same "if they don’t complain, it can't be wrong" logic I've heard child molesters use has given me the heebie jeebies.

I highly doubt he is actually a teacher, probably just another MN troll.

Probably for the best. Out of interest, what’s attracting you to talking on a forum mostly populated by women discussing exactly these kinds of things then?

Sadly, I believe he’s exactly who he says he is.