DS 16 debagged at school

[Atomsplitter]

My 16 year old year 12 student has just disclosed to me that he was debagged/pantsed by another student while on his recent D of E expedition. Luckily he managed to hold on to his underwear but still very embarrassing 😳 He also said that the same student has been trying to do the same in the common room at school. DS has to tie his shorts really tight to prevent him from pulling them down. AIBU to think this is sexual assault? This person is not his friend and is a bit of a dick according to DS. He has targeted others too apparently, some have been totally exposed. I want to contact the school but DS doesn't want me to and won't tell me the students name.

Same when I was at school. Doesn't mean it's acceptable nowadays. But even way back then, it would have second-formers doing it first-formers (say, 12 and 11 year olds). An 18 year old doing that would have been concerning even back then, I think, let alone now.

The HT will act. Every school that I know of gives an automatic suspension for this particular behaviour. No discussion, they're out.

So if you were at work and someone came along and pulled down your trousers and knickers to reveal your vulva, you would think it was nothing but a silly prank? Pretty sure you wouldn't. You'd be upset, humiliated and you'd feel violated. Why should a near-adult have to tolerate having his genitalia revealed publicly against his wishes?

I went to a rough school and this was not a thing in the late 80’s. What a nonce.

Surely the issue is this person is targeting another student / students and against their will pulling trousers down. Grabbing them and their clothing for amusement and /or bullying is unwanted contact whether it’s sexual assault or not.

@Atomsplitter it sounds like others have been the victim too and that they have witnesses? It’s hard if he doesn’t want you to intervene, but I’d have an honest chat with my DC and suggest initially they ALL complain as a group. If that has no impact I’d tell him that this behaviour isn’t acceptable and an option would be for you or him to make an anonymous complaint.

To be honest by 17 I’d have expected someone to grow out of this behaviour, if it was supposed funny in the first place. Also at 17 some young men are very strong and I’d worry that he will bully someone and injure them too.

Well, report it to the school anyway. Surely they'll be able to find out who it is, since he's been doing it to others. Everyone will know about it.

Of course it's sexual assault, and if it doesn't meet the technical definition, it's assault, anyway. And I couldn't give a crap what the technical definition is. Forced exposure of someone's private parts is sexual assault and I don't care what anyone says.

It's VERY concerning behaviour for someone who is 18. OP, he could be working his way up to worse. You have a duty to tell the school that someone is doing this. You could potentially save someone, probably a girl or young woman, from being raped or similar.

This kind of appalling behaviour drives me MAD - I mean, who the bloody hell does he think he IS? No one and nothing would stop me from reporting this to the school and the police, OP. Especially the police.

You're wrong.

Sexual assault does not require a sexual motive - only that the touching could objectively and reasonably be regarded as sexual.

I have little doubt that exposing, or trying to expose, someone else's genitals in public could reasonably be regarded as sexual.

Totally agree.

Where I work we’d call that peer on peer abuse. Report it anyway and say your don won’t disclose the name. Chances are they have had others report it. Regardless if it’s title, the behaviour is unacceptable.

I went to a private school and nobody would have given a shit!

Is it sexual assault, is it just laddish behaviour, is it bullying?

It depends on who did it, to who, when, in front of who, ages of both etc etc.

I taught in secondary education and over the years had to deal with laddish behaviour (for want of a better word.) And sometimes to pre-empt it.
We used to talk about the problems in life a conviction or warning could cause in future life.

It might not be intended as SA, it might be intended as a joke.

But...... do something like this to the wrong person with the wrong parents and you'll end up with sexual assault being mentioned at a police station.

What started as a joke soon stops being one.

You are well within your rights to report it to the school or bypass them and go to the police.

At the moment he doesn't want you to take it further - but on the other hand he did tell you. Clearly disturbed by it.

Maybe see how the start of next term goes?

Your son has definitely been a victim.

Obviously not but I also wouldn’t tolerate being told when I could go to the loo or having to call people miss or sir.

What if he were doing it to a girl?
What if he is gay?

This involves exposing someone's genitalia. I would class it as sexual asdault, for that reason alone.

OP - I would report it to the school, but explain your son's misgivings and ask if they can deal with it while taking this into account.

That's quite a leap.

Sounds like a young person showing off and being very foolish.

Some boys of that age are much less mature than others. That's not an excuse, just an observation.

I can remember telling my parents about a problem at sixth form when I was that sort of age. I wanted to deal with it myself, they wanted to get involved. It's such a difficult balance as they're getting their own independence but still in need of support in many ways. I'd support him to do as he wishes if it were me, unless it escalates.

Rightly or wrongly this sort of thing would have been brushed off when I was a kid. There's a balance to be had between encouraging resilience and not tolerating shit.
I don't have an easy answer for you, but good luck navigating it. xx

Really, there were 18 year olds forcibly stripping other pupils in public at your sixth form, repeatedly, and you all thought that was completely normal? What kind of fucked up school did you go to?

It's strange - and worrying - that he has apparently attempted this in the Common Room. I've only ever heard of this happening with KS3 boys, and in the changing rooms.
The main reason being is that students know there is CCTV everywhere in schools, apart from the toilets and changing rooms.

Most 18 year olds in sixth form will not be doing any of that either.

I was driving myself into sixth form at 17, calling my teachers by their first names, wearing my own clothes, walking into town for lunch/shopping if I had a free period, obviously could go to the toilet whenever I wanted. I certainly would not have expected to be stripped in public by another student.

I'm open mouthed that you're minimising the issue and are so young. OK, police might be a bit much, but what is the aim of trying to expose another person's genitals? There's no 'might be bullying' it is bullying and meant to humiliate.

I don't remember the girls I went to school with attempting to expose each other's underwear or any other body part.

No, nor me. Nor have I come across this as a teacher.

It's so hard isn't it.... It is classified as SA for sure but is it your place to report it? Such a gray area when your son is that age. I would think carefully about his anxiety and trust. I don't think I could report it if he really, really, really didn't want me to.

I would talk to your son. Tell him that you can tell the school without mentioning names or phrasing it in another way. The school should be told really. It's not ok to do that to someone

It is, of course ,assault. As someone else has said, I would contact the school anonymously. Ask for them to be discreet as you do not want your son to get any backlash from this. They probably have a strong idea who it could be anyway. OP, are you sure this has been done to other boys? He may be trying to deflect some of your concern. Hope you get some justice.

This is probably a very un-mumsnetty post, but how has this boy not gotten the crap kicked out of him yet?

Granted I was in 6th form 20 years ago now, but if any lad had even tried anything like that they’d have gotten absolutely filled in by the other boys.

I'm going to say that it's very strange that his behaviour hasn't been reported. Most post 16 students have a very strong sense of justice and really wouldn't tolerate this.
The whole thing is very odd.