DS 16 debagged at school

[Atomsplitter]

My 16 year old year 12 student has just disclosed to me that he was debagged/pantsed by another student while on his recent D of E expedition. Luckily he managed to hold on to his underwear but still very embarrassing 😳 He also said that the same student has been trying to do the same in the common room at school. DS has to tie his shorts really tight to prevent him from pulling them down. AIBU to think this is sexual assault? This person is not his friend and is a bit of a dick according to DS. He has targeted others too apparently, some have been totally exposed. I want to contact the school but DS doesn't want me to and won't tell me the students name.

He wasn’t touched “sexually”. That’s been explained several times already.

Report it anyway, even if he won't tell you the name (though I'd gently persist). Firstly, you don't know if anyone else has reported and it would add to the complaints they already have. He'll feel more confident to come forward if he finds out he isn't the only complainant.

Even if they are no other repprts, there can't be many kids on a DofE group that might do such a thing and it wouldn't take much investigating to find out who it is. Indeed it probably won't come as a surprise to teachers as they know their students and behaviour. They'll know the likely perpetrator.

This kid is a nasty bully and needs sorting out before it gets worse. FWIW I do think it's potential sexual assualt, as previous posters said, we dont know the motivation and if he was doing it to a girl I very much doubt you'd be getting the same responses.

Of course he did, poor chap. It's horrible bullying and it's intended to be humiliating. It should be reported.

Just say that your DS does not want you to report it. The school should be able to easily investigate without him even knowing you reported. For all DS (and the perpetrator know) another child in the group could’ve told a teacher or their own parents. They’ll most likely get a bunch to write statements and go from there.

Where I work, this means an automatic suspension.

I think you should discuss with DS how very serious this is - it's not just being a bit of a dick, this boy needs to have some consequences before he either gets a punch on the nose or a criminal record. Or both.

Tbh, I'd be inclined to report to the police and let him potentially be charged with assault, but that's me.

The other thing is, is he or anyone else filming this? Because if the victims are under 18 that's making indecent images of children.

The school need to come down on it like a ton of bricks. Is there cctv in the common room/wherever he's doing this?

It could constitute sexual assault. That would be for the Police to decide.
Unacceptable in every way.
As a pp said what if the victims were girls?
I have 2 DS who would be extremely adversely affected by this.

This is so horrible.
Id probably send an anonymous email saying your son doesn't want to be named, hopefully they might know of the bully.
If it happens again to anyone could your son and all his friends yell really loudly 'why are you so desperate to see all our genitals' or something to put him in his place. All the students should rally together, they must all hate it.

So the OP said Luckily he managed to hold on to his underwear - so the intention was to expose her son’s genitals. How is that NOT sexual assault? If a bloke pulled a girl’s bikini top off or yanked her knickers down, what would you call that? Japes? Of course not.

If not sexual assault, it’s certainly common assault (battery)- intentional or reckless application of unlawful (ie no consent or other defence) force against another person. The use of force does not have to be a punch or something, any unlawful touching is enough and it can be through clothing. This is a common law offence ie created by case law although it it is classified in section 39 criminal justice Act 1988

for sexual assault this is in s3 sexual offences act 2003. You need intentional touching that is sexual, without consent and no reasonable belief in consent.
Touching can be through clothing
sexual is defined in section 78:

Sexual
penetration, touching or any other activity is sexual if a reasonable person would consider that—
(a)whatever its circumstances or any person’s purpose in relation to it, it is because of its nature sexual, or
(b)because of its nature it may be sexual and because of its circumstances or the purpose of any person in relation to it (or both) it is sexual.

Common assault is likely easier to prove

This!

Christ alive!

How many times does the same question need answering?!

Sexual assault requires a sexual motive.

Consider this. A woman goes to the doctor about chest pain. He offers her a breast exam and she declines. Then, when checking her breathing, he places his hand on her breast and feels it.

If the doctor is doing that because he’s desperately worried about her health and her potentially not being examined and her missing a diagnosis - that’s still assault because he didn’t have consent. But it’s not sexual assault because he didn’t have any sexual motivation. If the doctor touched her breasts for a sexual reason - that’s sexual assault.

That applies whether it’s a man or a woman doing the touching or being touched.

It is at very least sexual harassment and should be reported.

It's bullying and it's mean and it's designed to humiliate but it's not SA

There's not a sexual motivation to lads pissing about being lads. (And a lad whipping down a girl's bikini top isn't necessarily sexual either, he can be "just" humiliating her)

It's the kind of dumb shit boys have been doing to humiliate each other for years. You only need to watch certain "sporty lads" shows and you'll see mates mucking about doing it to each other.

100% correct!

It's up to DSL to decide what to call this. I'd report it even if my kids asked me not to tbh.

If he pulled down a girls pants she might think it was sensually motivated. That's why there's safeguarding training and things like mash. To make judgement calls following national guidelines.

What will happen to this boy if he pulls down someone pants in the pub at 18?

That's what I keep telling my kids anyway. You can't just assault people so best to learn it asap before you get your teeth punched down your throat or charged. Hilarious or not..especially if both parties are not laughing

100% incorrect actually but you do you.

This would have resulted in a suspension at my school that I recently retired from

It doesn't have to be sexually motivated, it has to be in a sexual manner. Exposing the genitals of someone else is about sexual humiliation ergo it is a sexual assault.

You've got no idea what the motive was. That's potentially for the police to investigate and decide upon. It might just be that the boy thinks it's funny, or he might be a pervert and get his kicks from trying to expose boys' genitals. Either way all this splitting hairs is missing the point. Whatever the motive was it's serious and needs reporting.

Well, no, it isn’t. It’s up to the law - which is extremely clear. Even DSL’s don’t override parliament.

Sexual assault isn’t actually worse than assault so I don’t know why people so desperately want him to have been sexually assaulted.

It’s wrong, it’s bullying, it shouldn’t have happened. But it’s extremely, extremely, extremely unlike to be sexually motivated and there’s nothing in the OP to suggest it was.

My good friends son has just been suspended for doing just this, and yes its seen as sexually inappropriate. Sons friend did it back to someone who keeps on doing it to him. Both kids got suspended

I wondered the same myself.

He's trying to expose these other boys without their consent, I would say that is SA.

Sexual assault happens when someone either touches another person in a sexual manner without consent or makes another person touch them in a sexual manner without consent. It includes unwanted kissing and the touching of someone's genitals, breasts or bottom.

https://rapecrisis.org.uk/get-informed/types-of-sexual-violence/what-is-sexual-assault/

nobody knows what’s in the mind of the perpetrator, but we all know that sexual assault is primarily about power

To all those saying it's not sexual assault, would you say the same if someone was trying to pull a girl's underwear off? Really?