AIBU to think that racism is getting a lot worse of late.

[AliceMaforethought]

Just read this awful story in the Guardian. Awful and makes me feel so angry and so unsafe as a half Black woman.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/aug/20/family-in-fear-after-tommy-robinson-shares-video-of-black-man-with-white-granddaughters

Agree with all of this. Couple this with a few years of very low net immigration (skilled), followed by controlled skilled immigration numbering in the low tens of thousands and I think you’d really see people start to value the contribution immigration can make and a country that has had a bit of breathing space to manage integration effectively.

What should Starmer do then? When 7/10 people feel he is handling immigration poorly?

This is true, I’d say anything above 300k a year is mass. The 1.5 million in 2023 was just crazy!

The majority voted for mass immigration for 14 years. They got what they voted for. The party of zero immigration got 4 seats.

What bit of this discussion are you struggling with? We’re just going around in circles and I genuinely get the feeling you’re just not quite understanding something. Is it when I say mass immigration you think I’m suggesting no immigration?

Under Blair immigration was 250k, under the Tories it went to over 1m. The majority voted for the Tories for 14 years. What part of that are you struggling with?

You don’t have to be like this you know, we could just have a grown up discussion. Anyway enjoy what’s left of the bank hol.

Not usually no. Many families we work with live in quite challenging housing conditions, which aren't great for the children, and may be helped by a 2nd salary. It would also give the women more freedom, more support and set a positive example to female children.

That all depends on what you mean by "stopping mass immigration"

It is perfectly reasonable for us to have informed debates about how much immigration is desirable, or viable, for our society. It is perfectly reasonable to make sensible, carefully considered policy changes in relation to the types of immigration that we allow and/or the numbers that we might consider to be manageable. It is perfectly reasonable to take humane steps to deal with issues around irregular migration, to tackle the problem of people smuggling or to make changes to how irregular migrants are processed and supported. It is perfectly reasonable to have discussions about the impact of immigration on local communities and to consider steps that can be taken to improve integration etc.

It is not reasonable, imo, to blame migration for all of society's ills; to argue blindly for "net zero" migration without having carefully considered what this might mean for our society; to argue that we should dispense with our commitment to human rights and abandon our obligations under international law. It is not reasonable, imo, to demonise migrants in general, or specific groups of migrants, or to deliberately whip up racial hatred. It is not reasonable, imo, to weaponise violence against women and girls in order to promote inflammatory racist rhetoric. It is not reasonable, imo, to weaponise homelessness amongst British people to promote inflammatory racist rhetoric. It is not reasonable, imo, to try to create fear by promoting ideas such as the Great Replacement Theory. It is not reasonable, imo, to shamelessly exploit the hopelessness of the poor and vulnerable in order to recruit supporters to your cause. It is not reasonable, imo, to spread deliberate disinformation about migrants in order to generate anti-migrant feeling etc.

Hopefully you get the picture.

Depends what for IMO. 800k of those were work or study related visas.

Take those out and you’ve nearly got your 300k.

Asylum was actually at around 200k, according to ONS.

Depending on what kind of immigration troubles you, 2023 would actually not necessarily have been “mass.”

I tried to have a grown up discussion and pointed out the complexity of cutting down on immigration but you didn't engage. I also pointed out that the majority didn't vote for the anti immigration party but you didn't engage. I pointed out that the majority kept voting for the Tories despite the huge rise in immigration and doing nothing to reduce it but you didn't engage.

Stopping mass immigration for me would be to reduce it below 200-300k. It really depends on what is going on in the U.K. economy. I don’t see anything far right about that.

I do think linking ending mass immigration to all the other stuff in your reply is a straw man and makes me feel you are in favour of mass immigration and in which case I’d really like to know why?

I agree, it was daft of TB to increase the university intake and for governments not to invest in the people already here

he should have invested in training up people in vocational skills

I think he needs to be open and honest with the electorate and to stop trying to sound like Farage. It won't convince the Farage supporters but it will alienate his base.

He needs to look systematically at each of the different categories of immigration and consider whether the levels that we currently have are optimal. If he decides to cut some areas, then he will need to have a plan to mitigate the impact of that. E.g. if we're going to cut student numbers, we will need to increase taxes or tuition fees for home students in other to stop the universities from going bust. Or if we are going to stop using care workers, he will need a plan for who else is going to look after our elderly and disabled people. Or if we decide to limit skilled migration, we will need a plan for how we're going to train and unskilled British workers to fill those gaps, what it's going to costand how long that might take. Or if he wants to stop the boats, he needs to consider how safe routes for asylum seekers can be offered instead.

When he has done this analysis, he then needs to level with the British public about the likely impact of any measures that he is proposing to take - the likely costs for the taxpayer, implications for public services, projected impact on the economy etc. We need to understand that there will always be trade-offs, some of which may not be very appealing.

And then he needs to implement his plans. Like a grown up.

I'm pretty neutral about immigration numbers tbh. I don't have an arbitrary target or limit in mind. I think we should be guided by what the country needs, and by our obligations under international law, rather than chasing after a specific number or allowing racist rhetoric to dictate policy.

Problem is it's going to take waaaaay longer than just 'a few years'. And in that long interim period, the economy is going to take a massive hit, productivity will tank, people will be poorer and they will continue to scapegoat people. It is not possible to drop immigration to almost nothing for the period it will take for the British workforce to catch up - that's a 20 year job.

I’m much the same, I think most people are once you cut through all identity politics nonsense. I guess the real question is what is the acceptable number, it can’t be a million a year…to me that’s just reckless.

So which types of immigration do you think we should cut?

You make some good points, but I do think that one of the first things we should do is stop counting the international student population. These are people who are here temporarily, who are paying massive uni fees which actually subsidise British students and moreover, most of them pay the NHS surcharge. They distort the numbers and give the Reform brigade entirely too much ammunition.

Many of them also work.

We employ staff on student visas to work 20hrs a week around their studies.

Specifically in my case to provide personal care to disabled children - a job that is historically very hard to fill generally, and even harder to find experienced staff for.

Most of them money launder. You know those ‘barbers’ who still are open when hardly anyone has their hair cut there. It’s just a front for hiding dodgy business- nitrous oxide canisters, illegal tobacco and vaping products

Thanks for giving your thoughts.

Exactly. So maybe not include them in the statistics, because they are 1) doing valuable work, 2) bringing in revenue and 3) here temporarily. It should be obvious.

Most of whom? Immigrants? I hope that isn't what you're saying. I mean I'm an immigrant and the only time I've laundered money is if I've accidentally left a fiver in my jeans pocket before washing them.