AIBU to think that racism is getting a lot worse of late.

[AliceMaforethought]

Just read this awful story in the Guardian. Awful and makes me feel so angry and so unsafe as a half Black woman.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/aug/20/family-in-fear-after-tommy-robinson-shares-video-of-black-man-with-white-granddaughters

Well Alf Garnett didn’t appear from nowhere, did he?

I'm so sorry this is happening to you 🌺

I don't think that's entirely true. Where I grew up in the 70s/80s, migrant families were very much part of the community and weren't seen as lesser or not equal. My friends from around the world weren't seen as any more or less British than I was. I accept that I grew up in a particularly diverse area and that things may well have been as you describe elsewhere. But for my family (19th century migrants!) and more recent migrants, from 50s Windrush to 70s and 80s Bangladeshi people, we were just friends, neighbours and colleagues. The divisions weren't anything like as stark as they are now.

British people have always been ashamed/ embarrassed of their culture. I noticed that moving here when I was 8. It struck me as very very odd and as I got older very sad. I had friends from all nationalities living in London who would say “What culture?! You have no culture”. But I always saw that as a response to the narrative we have collectively spewed out about ourselves for a long time. The tongue in cheek and sarcastic British humour has turned into self-hatred for many. The very fact that we talk about things like ‘tolerance’ first as what it means to be British. It’s all about others. Both ‘sides’ are at fault in different ways, but both are responding to something very real that is happening globally, not just here. It’s not just a British problem, a thugs/ racists issue or whatever you think it is. Yes there is more racism . That is deplorable. But as long as people continue to shout ‘racist’ as a means to shut down all discussion it will get worse. You will make it worse.

The discussion of ‘popularism’ too has an air of superiority about it, like these uneducated folk just don’t understand it, like I do. If only they could be so enlightened. It’s just a way to dismiss and shut down conversation. Same as the sweeping statement that all these people are simply racist (though Islamaphobe would fit better in most cases). What’s that going to achieve, though?

I feel more and more disillusioned from politics because it feels so divisive and points scoring rather than actually debating and discussing and trying to fix complex and difficult problems.

I remember going to a talk at uni years ago, where the enlightened Philosophy students were discussing how awful it was that a change in law could mean that people who were not born in the uk could be deported for committing certain crimes. I was too nervous to speak back then, but remember thinking, as someone not born in the UK, that was fair enough!!

Because my husband is English.

Yes, well they get constant reminder that they are colonisers and slave drivers which I find pathetic. While there are still some form slavery today they are not in the UK. British today are not responsible for what wrong was done decades ago. And flying the flags is racist? I love seeing the UK flags everywhere. Outside the UK people love British culture. Here, people are embarrassed to be proudly British.

And many migrants have friends or family in the UK and/or speak English. What's the difference between "good" migrants like yourself and the other kind?

If you read the article I posted earlier, the Sudanese refugee who describes his experiences talks about the danger and the racism he's faced in other supposedly safe countries, and the relative peace he's found in the UK. Is it surprising that people who have endured trauma and violence would seek safe harbour? I only hope we can keep some semblance of that safety and peace here and welcome those who have had to leave their homes and families behind. That is why we must unite to reject racist and divisive rhetoric becoming mainstream and normalised.

I’ve grown up in London. I grew up in a mainly white area until the 80’s (as many parts of London still were) when we had a number is Asian families from Uganda (who were not seen by my Asian family as being the same but most white people will have seen them as the same)

my south Asian family famiky mixed with other south Asians with the odd white friend/family member and my white family it was the same. Younger generations are far more inclusive in my experiences (and experiences of friends/families of immigrants). My family (SA side) is now far more mixed

open racism and being told of you place was an every day experience for my fathers generation and being seen as colleagues and friends isn’t the same as being their children who are not white being accepted as British

im glad to hear your experience or your families experience was different but am surprised if your family are not white

You might like seeing the flags flying but you have to understand that for many of us it's intimidating. I'm Jewish and seeing rows and rows of flags like that has awful connotations. For more recent migrants it must feel so unwelcoming and frightening - and that's clearly the motive.

Like I say, I appreciate that my experience is not that of everyone's; however it's still valid.

I find your last sentence jarring in a way that's hard to express. We're white if you like, but Jewish. So we have experience of not being seen as British/equal. But that, in the particular time and place of my childhood was not an issue.

Actually I'd also say that the efforts made by diverse communities to integrate, to be friendly and respectful and to determinedly be close knit should not be so readily dismissed.

You talk of shutting down discussion but that goes both ways. If someone tries to have a rational debate about asylum seekers and immigration they also get shut down. The whole point about populism is that it's emotive.

Being tolerant of others is what living in a liberal democracy is about. You have freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom to love who you want; that's tolerance.

What’s that going to achieve, though?

Inflammatory discussions about racial stereotypes aren't conducive to achieving anything but hatred and division. Sweeping generalisations about people are dehumanising and create more problems, they don't achieve anything.

I'm happy to discuss immigration, what to do about people crossing the channel, where to house people as long as it doesn't descend into branding people as paedophiles, rapists, scroungers and criminals.

Alf Garnett was supposed to be satirical, you weren't supposed to agree with him, he was the fool. Unfortunately some people did.

The coalescing of politics, entertainment and consumer culture is supporting the rise of Populism as it thrives on convincing voters to focus on the frivolous and self-indulgent, while neglecting the communal and ethical.

Liberal democracies can only be guarded if that engagement with the world outside your own exists and a culture (our current culture) of anti intellectualism is ill equipped to do that. In effect, we have turned on ourselves and are dismantling our own freedoms. In the past, there was a historical continuity between the generations that served to provide the understanding needed to engage with democracy i.e. an understanding of your civic duties but now our society is bereft of civic duty, politics is wholly about the freedom and whims of the individual (thanks Thatcher) and politics is a performance. Politics as a performance is not enough to bring about the changes needed to address the weighty issues of poverty, employment, the environment and certainly not catastrophes facing our democracy.

I have an idea. Maybe we should have parks for white people and parks for non-white people....??? 😩

I think I have been here before...

I know. But satire always has a basis in fact. There were/are people like that.

I have an idea. Maybe we should have parks for white people and parks for non-white people....??? 😩

I think I have been here before...

Yes and men of his age had fought in a war and still found themselves at the bottom of the heap so looking around for some one to blame. He was never meant to be a role model though.

Agree with all that, born in the 70s. When I was a teenager in the 90s people were still fighting discrimination but it felt like everything was moving in the right direction and it seemed that the future would be a better place.

I currently feel like I'm watching a car crash in slow motion and there's nothing I can do to stop it. And the scary thing is, this isn't just happening here, it is global. There is no escape from it. All with backing from the richest man in the world.

Maybe the people trying to reach the UK by small boats also have family in the UK.

And if they speak another language at all it is most likely to be English.

I don't entirely disagree with you, but you are naive if you think there is no slavery in modern day Britain. It is alive and well.

I do think that there is an intrinsic problem with some of the presentation of history - "the British" didn't do anything to others, per se. Half the time they were as busy fighting and subjugating themselves as they were elsewhere. It was the British ruling class who commanded and who benefitted. Any passing advantage that the vast majority of people got was only because those in powerful positions allowed it, just as they allowed (for example) a form of benefit for the Indian "middle classes" in managing their own country.

But lets be very honest. Flying the Union Jack has nothing to do any of that. Feeling ashamed of the Union Jack is something of a new phenonomen, and it is because the flag has been hijacked by racists. Perhaps we have allowed that to happen, but it is naive to claim anything else when it is worn, waved, tattooed, painted and otherwise prominantly displayed at events and activities that the vast majority of the population are ashamed of. Whatever your views of "immigration" or "asylum", are you proud that it is held aloft or painted on the faces of thugs who are attempting to burn people alive in their place of residence? Because I am not.

When I go past a home in Wales or Scotland, I see their flags displayed to indicate that they are proud of their heritage. Even if that is what people intend - and only that - in England, when I see the Union Flag or the cross of St George, my head goes straight to those images of thugs. People are not embarassed to be British. They aren't even largely embarassed by British history. They are very embarassed to be seen to have anything in common with jack-booted thugs, and for many of them that is what the Union flag has become associated with.

Maybe it is time to take back the flag.

No, we're not personally responsible for "what was done years ago" - why do people get so upset or personally offended at learning about the history though? It's important to learn the history instead of going "wah, you're being mean to me, I'm not responsible, stop ramming it down my throat!" or some such nonsense 🙄

I think nationalism, however well meant, is dangerous. I dislike seeing flags flying at all in every day life. I'm currently abroad and there's been a race so some houses have a number of flags outside. That doesn't feel threatening, but when I see any type of national flag on permanent display outside somebody's house I wonder how welcoming and inclusive that person really is.

If you are British due to being born in the UK, I'm not sure why you should be proud of being British. You should be proud of your own personal achievements and of being a kind and compassionate person. Being proud of something that is purely due an accident of birth seems strange to me.

I can understand this more if you come to the UK as an adult and you pass the test to become a UK citizen as it has required effort and possibly some hardship on your part.

As a British citizen you can be proud of lots of things that Britain has achieved and less proud of other things, such as slavery and colonialism.