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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Have you met Lucy Letby ?

248 replies

brightonchicka · 17/08/2025 12:26

Just curious - watched documentary and i am convinced of her guilt and intrigued by her apparent wolf in sheeps clothing demeanour - Just wondering if anyone HAS met her /encountered her and what she is like ?!

OP posts:
CherrieTomaties · 17/08/2025 16:44

brightonchicka · 17/08/2025 16:39

@CherrieTomaties a colleague met Rose and said she was very popular with both staff and inmates .. but she could turn impulsively and be rather sharp tongued

Yeah my friend has said a lot of the younger prisoners call her “auntie” as she just appears as a ‘sweet old lady’. They do baking with her as they’re not old enough to remember or know about her case.

brightonchicka · 17/08/2025 16:45

@PhilippaGeorgiou dont tar everyone with the same brush … we like a good mumsnet chat like the best of them !

OP posts:
brightonchicka · 17/08/2025 16:46

@CherrieTomaties yes that is the case from what ive heard - they look up to her - she will NOT discuss the cases against her - its almost like it didnt happen

OP posts:
Cucy · 17/08/2025 16:47

Allisnotlost1 · 17/08/2025 15:22

This sounds like utter bollocks. The category and type of prison will give you a strong clue - men convicted for child sexual offences won’t be in the general population of most prisons. Also where do you look people up? Hopefully not on systems you shouldn’t be accessing.

You do realise that some prisons are mixed.

And of those that aren’t, sex offenders and rapist choose to go on the VP wings for their own safety but they don’t have to go on them, some choose to take the risk with the mains.

Not all VPs are in for sex crimes either. Some are there because they were targeted in the main population, because they’re in debt to drug dealers, they’ve got a price on their heads or because they had a job that would leave them vulnerable in some way eg ex prison officer.

What category do you think murders and rapist go?
Do you think they stay in the same category and then just one day get released?

And I look people up on the prison system that I have access to - which every other staff member does and is allowed to do (hence why we have access to it).

You obviously have no clue how the prison system works so why would you say something is bollocks with no clue yourself?

Weird behaviour.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 17/08/2025 16:49

The biggest part of the prosecution case was that Lucy Letby was THERE for incidents and deaths that were only flagged up as suspicious after original post mortems had found no sign of foul play.

Then in one specific case it was discovered that actually no she wasn't so the prosecution expert slightly revised his findings. He also changed his mind about mechanisms more than once. Some of the electronic entrance and exit data for the ward recording turned out to be back to front.

As to investigation of further deaths in the other hospital, if the methodology is simply see if Lucy Letby was on shift at the time, because obviously now she's convicted she must have done it, and a judge actually told the jury they didn't have to worry about how she did it, just go by the rest of the "evidence" then we have a serious problem with both our healthcare and justice systems. Bear in mind, it could happen to anyone, if a set of circumstances is left field enough, and there aren't obvious answers.

It's why a verdict should be beyond reasonable doubt, and partly why we no longer have the death penalty.

EnjoythemoneyJane · 17/08/2025 16:55

poetryandwine · 17/08/2025 14:32

Why bother with judges, juries, expert witnesses, appeals and all the palaver of the rule of law? People could just come to you for the truth.

Do you not remember that this type of group think got many innocent women burnt at the stake as witches? Or that the ‘lucky’ ones were thrown into a river and their drowning was proof of innocence?

Christ, this thread is bedlam - @poetryandwine, the poster you’re quoting was responding to someone suggesting you can’t tell when a comment on a thread is a piss-take or intended to be humorous, not whether someone’s guilty of a crime …

Between all the talking at cross purposes, the massive whooshes, the people getting shitty because they got whooshed, and then this from the OP: “I myself am highly intuitive and my personal judgement has never been wrong”, this has (unexpectedly, given the subject matter) been far and away the funniest thread of the week 😂

Noelshighflyingturds · 17/08/2025 16:58

brightonchicka · 17/08/2025 16:46

@CherrieTomaties yes that is the case from what ive heard - they look up to her - she will NOT discuss the cases against her - its almost like it didnt happen

Generally the advice is not to, prisoners will say you confessed to everything if it gets them 3 months off their sentence i believe

ilovepixie · 17/08/2025 17:08

ilovepixie · 17/08/2025 14:13

I used to live opposite Stoke Mandeville hospital and used to see him in the local shop. He seemed normal. My mum had a friend who was a nurse and all the nurses hated him, he used to hang around my sisters secondary school and the girls there were a bit star stuck. This was the early to mid 1980,s.

That’s about Jimmy Saville!

Mrsbloggz · 17/08/2025 17:09

Noelshighflyingturds · 17/08/2025 13:52

In my line of work, I have met people who were responsible for guarding Jamie Bulgers killers.
apparently, they were far worse in real life and the Public was shielded from the true horror of what happened to them to turn them into killers but also how awful they were

Did they say anything about what happened to them?

Spookyspaghetti · 17/08/2025 17:09

MistressoftheDarkSide · 17/08/2025 14:47

Hmm.

I agree with those posters pointing out that if anyone who had met her had anything remotely significant to divulge in the context of her conviction, which is so unsafe it beggars belief, it would have been all over the press in a heartbeat after the trial.

The main fascination with her is that there is no psychological evidence against her, and if you believe the official narrative she just woke up one morning and decided to trash her career by abusing her trusted position as a nurse by carrying out acts that have not been reliably proven as methods of murder. And that of course plays into our fears that anyone, no matter how "lovely" / innocuous could be plotting harm. It really is witch hunt territory.

And for someone accused of a heinous crime or action, it's not until you go through the system, which you may have trusted, you realise how quickly it runs over you even if you are innocent.

Our justice system is adversarial, and not really about getting to the truth. It's a case of which side can "win". People don't want to believe that.

But just imagine if you were accused of a crime. You know you are innocent. You can't "prove" it, but there is circumstantial evidence being used that you can't debunk - your phone pinged in the area, you have been at the crime scene, you didn't get on with the victim.... it is presented as compelling. Your freedom and ability to live your life as you choose is on the line. Your denials are rejected. You are told you are guilty, over and over again. Your friends and family are interviewed. They don't "believe" you are guilty, but can't prove you aren't to the satisfaction of the police because they weren't there.

Your legal advice is that you can risk trial, but if you have pleaded not guilty and lose, your sentence and treatment will be far harsher. Admitting guilt garners a softer ride.

Psychologically you become paranoid, neurotic. If you are "too calm" you are guilty. If you become defensive or aggressive then it feeds the idea that you are capable of the act. You are just rolled around the system like it's a pin ball machine. Everyone involved in your case on an official level believes you are guilty.

It's a pretty horrific experience.

Did she just wake up one day and change? They are still deciding whether to bring more charges over deaths that occurred during her nurses training. Unfortunately, it is the case that some offenders are drawn to lines of work where they can have privileged access to their victims. Savile’s name has come up multiple times as has Harris’s, and they both did work that brought them into contact with the vulnerable.

I can understand, with the current lack of trust in the NHS, why people might think the hospital are pinning something on her but the police and the CPS could have easily closed the case and said natural deaths or poor working practices and it would have got turned over to one of the many inquiries their are at the moment.

Why would the police (multiple forces) and CPS want to waste so much time, and money on a stitch up that is of absolutely no benefit to them? The doctors and management at the hospital can’t all have relatives high up in the police force. This is where the whole Letby is innocent conspiracy theory falls short for me.

Allisnotlost1 · 17/08/2025 17:10

Cucy · 17/08/2025 16:47

You do realise that some prisons are mixed.

And of those that aren’t, sex offenders and rapist choose to go on the VP wings for their own safety but they don’t have to go on them, some choose to take the risk with the mains.

Not all VPs are in for sex crimes either. Some are there because they were targeted in the main population, because they’re in debt to drug dealers, they’ve got a price on their heads or because they had a job that would leave them vulnerable in some way eg ex prison officer.

What category do you think murders and rapist go?
Do you think they stay in the same category and then just one day get released?

And I look people up on the prison system that I have access to - which every other staff member does and is allowed to do (hence why we have access to it).

You obviously have no clue how the prison system works so why would you say something is bollocks with no clue yourself?

Weird behaviour.

lol, yes I know how it works. What I’m saying is that your ‘I can just tell’ is undermined by the fact that there are types and categories, including VP. You’re not guessing from a line up of people, you’re guessing from a field that’s narrowed.

Of course people don’t stay in one place but, as you know, there are still limitations and restrictions that would nudge you to conclusions about people. What job they do, who they associate with, how they move etc. Your ‘instinct’ is not really instinct at all, it’s just observation.

if you’re looking up people just to see what they’re convicted of then no, you’re not ‘allowed to’. If your job doesn’t require to access parts of NOMIS and you do access those, it’s a data protection breach at least, and potentially misconduct in public office. If you’re saying you access that information because it’s a necessary part of your role then it’s even less surprising that your ‘instinct’ helps you guess people’s convictions.

Mrsbloggz · 17/08/2025 17:12

JifNtGif · 17/08/2025 15:35

I met HRH Diana once outside of Harvey Nichols. She had the eyes of Bambi but noticably the rough weathered hands of a manual labourer.

my hands are pretty rough & calloused from weight lifting, she was a gym goer- could be that?

Allisnotlost1 · 17/08/2025 17:14

brightonchicka · 17/08/2025 16:36

@Allisnotlost1 star wars mostly 🤣 I couldnt really comment further without outing my line of work but i work closely with a specific force and agencies ( sorry that doesnt give much away )

I wouldn’t expect you to out yourself. It is a slight worry that you work in that role, are smart enough not to out yourself but genuinely believe you have some sort of instinct that helps you. Surely you’ve had training?

Noelshighflyingturds · 17/08/2025 17:14

Mrsbloggz · 17/08/2025 17:09

Did they say anything about what happened to them?

Just horrible abuse, physical, emotional and sexual.
Which they played forward to poor James.

janeandmarysmum · 17/08/2025 17:26

JeffreyCombs · 17/08/2025 13:11

Oh aye?

So before she was (in)famous, your friend pointed her out..... ok

I think she was taking the piss...

brightonchicka · 17/08/2025 17:31

@Allisnotlost1 helps me in life .. not making professional decisions 🤣slightly more complex than that …

OP posts:
brightonchicka · 17/08/2025 17:32

@Mrsbloggz note every female on thread looks at hands …..

OP posts:
ElmBeechOak · 17/08/2025 17:39

LancashireButterPie · 17/08/2025 14:04

That doesn't make her guilty.

I think it's rather terrifying for everyone, that there are doubts about so many aspects of this case but a woman remains in prison for life.

There needs to be a proper review of the evidence with proper experts, not some arrogant retired paediatrician who volunteered his services because "he just knew she was guilty" from the start. That man is a disgrace.

There needs to be a proper review of the evidence with proper experts, not some arrogant retired paediatrician who volunteered his services because "he just knew she was guilty" from the start.

These experts worked on the case:

Dr Andreas Marnerides, Consultant Pathologist. 10 years’ experience as a consultant in 2023 (the year that Lucy Letby’s first trial ended).
Dr Owen Arthurs, Professor of Radiology. 10 years’ experience as a consultant in 2023.
Dr Sally Kinsey, Professor of Haematology, specialising in paediatric haematology. Retired in 2023 so had had plenty of experience.
Dr Peter Hindmarsh, Professor of Paediatric Endocrinology. 19 years’ experience as a professor
Dr Stavros Stivaros, Professor of Radiology. Can’t quickly find how long he has been a professor. Had been publishing research papers for 21 years in 2023.
Dr Simon Kenny, Consultant Paediatrician. 20 years’ experience as a consultant in 2023.
Dr Dewi Evans, Consultant Paediatrician. Was retired in 2023. Had had 29 years’ experience as a consultant.
Dr Sandie Bohin, Consultant Paediatrician. 14 years’ experience as a consultant in 2023.

The police and CPS are not going to use anyone just because they volunteer. They used Dewi Evans because he had relevant expertise and experience. When he started work on the case he had not heard Lucy Letby's name.

BadDinner · 17/08/2025 17:43

MistressoftheDarkSide · 17/08/2025 15:55

One of the doctors in this case had "instincts". Turns out he might have been the subject of a few Datix reports filed by Letby. And here we are.

I did meet Lucy Letby a few years ago. I was walking through a park with a bunch of flowers in my hand, a big bunch of petunias, lavender and freesias, on the way to my mother-in-laws, whom I intended to present the flowers to (a thank you for a lovely cardi she had knitted for me) and I saw her coming in the opposite direction along the path. I didn't know who she was then, and thought nothing of it (I only know it was her in retrospect and things immediately added up) She was just another stranger. I do not even remember what she was wearing, I only noticed she was blonde and somewhat stereotypically pretty, in a girl next door sort of way, however, as we went to pass each other under a rather large oriental plane tree, she suddenly made a right swerve towards me, and asked me for the time, she explained her phone battery had died. I had to dig in my bag a bit to find mine, and asked her to hold the flowers while I rummaged and she apologised for putting me through so much trouble, and I said 'no, you're all right!' I don't now recall exactly what time it was was, but it would have been some time just past midday. Anyway I eventually found my phone and I told her the time and she handed the flowers back and thanked me and then continued walking off. Seemed perfectly charming.

I continued walking to my MIL's and dropped off the flowers.

But as I was walking back, I passed under the same oriental plane tree and I noticed there was now a dead crow fallen to the ground that looked strangely freshly dead. I covered it with grass and leaves.

The next day I rang my MIL and asked her where she finally decided to place the flowers.

She sounded strangely upset, she said 'thank you for the flowers, I placed them by the kitchen window, but where on earth did you buy them? They're all dead'. My MIL is in her late 70s so I politely asked her if she had the correct ones and whether she had put some other substance besides water in them.

Somewhat crossly, she said no, they are completely dead and dried up as if they had been dead for weeks!

It was very peculiar, but I just assumed she was confused and getting a touch of early onset dementia.

That same day I was preparing dinner and seasoning the salmon and was in a bit of a rush, since I needed to collect our cat from the Vets later, and somehow dropped my heavy stone pestle and mortar on my left foot, breaking all my toes.

After I returned from hospital, my husband picked up our cat, but it wouldn't come near me. Unfortunately he put it out in the garden as we didn't have a litter tray, but the cat never returned, I was heartbroken and looked everywhere, put up posters, everything, to no avail.

It was a couple years later when I saw the newspapers with her face and the video of her being arrested...that, pretty, next door looking face, and that so obviously true blonde hair, not out of a packet that I remembered her! I couldn't stop myself from shaking!

Of course no one who is not the very essence of evil refuses to cry whilst looking so extremely at ease. I said as much to DH whilst crying, (I cry a lot as DH can attest) and there's no way I'd not be under such circumstances as she was in!

Of course being blonde and pretty she took advantage of it to commit her crimes. She's as guilty as sin, I said as much to DH, who actually had the temerity to put a good word in for her and suggest she might be numb or in shock or even on anti-depressants!! Possibly, he said even not guilty!! As if such a thing could be possible when our justice system never makes mistakes!! I couldn't put up with it, I just left the room. I myself am a brunette and often catch DH looking at blonde headed women, it's been a point of contention in our marriage. Untrustworthy all of them, but I try not to get angry, because I know they make him look of course; think they're the bees knees such women. Think they're irresistible. Think they can deceive anyone. Just like this Letby did. Deceiving the public, even doctors at the very top of their profession, she's got them round her finger too. Well she deceived me on the footpath too that day.

Anyway it all added up and I realised I had been in the presence of true evil and had had a lucky escape!! I realise I must hone my intuition skills more sharply as it all came to me after she was identified as a wrong one and not before!! So I've been working on it and now I have it down. I can now just look at someone and know they are wrong. Body language. Facial expressions. I told DH the other day, I suspect the replacement postman is shifty and low and behold it turns out he is stopping for too long at no. 29. She's blonde too and rather too smiley at inappropriate times. Right on the money.

I still don't walk under that oriental plane tree...

Cucy · 17/08/2025 17:45

Allisnotlost1 · 17/08/2025 17:10

lol, yes I know how it works. What I’m saying is that your ‘I can just tell’ is undermined by the fact that there are types and categories, including VP. You’re not guessing from a line up of people, you’re guessing from a field that’s narrowed.

Of course people don’t stay in one place but, as you know, there are still limitations and restrictions that would nudge you to conclusions about people. What job they do, who they associate with, how they move etc. Your ‘instinct’ is not really instinct at all, it’s just observation.

if you’re looking up people just to see what they’re convicted of then no, you’re not ‘allowed to’. If your job doesn’t require to access parts of NOMIS and you do access those, it’s a data protection breach at least, and potentially misconduct in public office. If you’re saying you access that information because it’s a necessary part of your role then it’s even less surprising that your ‘instinct’ helps you guess people’s convictions.

No you’re completely wrong.

I have regularly been in rooms with a drug dealer, murderer and rapist/peado etc and sometimes you cannot tell who has done what but other times you have a feeling about someone and your instinct is proven right.

I have worked with someone who was very nice but I had a bad feeling about him even though his crime wasn’t anything sexual - less than 6 months later he was back in for a violent rape.

But then other times someone who you would assume to be in for that reason, is actually not at all.

Hence my point, that you cannot tell if Lucy is guilty of the crime by simply meeting her.

Lucy will be in prison with gang members and drug dealers, as well as those in for tax evasion or burglary.

And yes of course I’m allowed to access the prison systems, if I wasn’t then I wouldn’t have access to them.
What a ridiculous thing to say.

Most people choose to look up someone’s crimes and other details before meeting them to know what they’re dealing with.
Myself and others choose not to do this until after meeting them.

There would be no point in having these systems in place if people weren’t using them to read up on the prisoner.

Gently, if you think using a system that is designed for you to use is a data protection breach or misconduct then you have less clue about these things than I thought.

So I’m not sure why you’re saying I’m in the wrong when you obviously don’t know enough to be stating that.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 17/08/2025 17:46

Spookyspaghetti · 17/08/2025 17:09

Did she just wake up one day and change? They are still deciding whether to bring more charges over deaths that occurred during her nurses training. Unfortunately, it is the case that some offenders are drawn to lines of work where they can have privileged access to their victims. Savile’s name has come up multiple times as has Harris’s, and they both did work that brought them into contact with the vulnerable.

I can understand, with the current lack of trust in the NHS, why people might think the hospital are pinning something on her but the police and the CPS could have easily closed the case and said natural deaths or poor working practices and it would have got turned over to one of the many inquiries their are at the moment.

Why would the police (multiple forces) and CPS want to waste so much time, and money on a stitch up that is of absolutely no benefit to them? The doctors and management at the hospital can’t all have relatives high up in the police force. This is where the whole Letby is innocent conspiracy theory falls short for me.

It doesn't require a conspiracy, or contacts in the police for it to become very difficult to stop a rolling juggernaut.

Once Lucy Letby was flagged, and "an expert" had confirmed the doctors "instincts" and the investigation was under way, there were devastated parents to contend with who might well become litigious given the to-ing and fro-ing on the matter of their children's deaths. If Lycy Letby wasn't responsible but it was multiple cases of negligence, there's a class action right there, plus the outrage from Lucy Letby being falsely accused.

The various "methods" of "attack" described, and revised to suit other evidence such as whether Lucy Letby was on shift or not are all under question.

If you look up things like the diameter of a naso gastric tube, corresponding syring capacity etc, it becomes very difficult to believe that she could have been able to spend enough time unobserved on the ward pumping air or milk into babies stomachs in sufficient volume to cause the alleged resulting damage. Neonatal experts have ridiculed the notion.

Likewise the "liver injury" described so emotively. The liver of a premature neonate is around 5cm in size. How did she do that?

It's not enough for an expert to say "because i say so". There has to be solid evidence. And there wasn't.

Mrsbloggz · 17/08/2025 17:48

@BadDinner
low and behold
I think you mean, "lo and behold".

BadDinner · 17/08/2025 17:59

Mrsbloggz · 17/08/2025 17:48

@BadDinner
low and behold
I think you mean, "lo and behold".

Yes, thank you!☺️

EnjoythemoneyJane · 17/08/2025 18:10

Mrsbloggz · 17/08/2025 17:48

@BadDinner
low and behold
I think you mean, "lo and behold".

Well spotted. Definitely what stood out for me too in that whole incredible post.