Have you met Lucy Letby ?

[brightonchicka]

Just curious - watched documentary and i am convinced of her guilt and intrigued by her apparent wolf in sheeps clothing demeanour - Just wondering if anyone HAS met her /encountered her and what she is like ?!

She is still being investigated for other death at another hospital where she works so it is unlikely that the press can easily report on everything still as they need to be careful not to prejudice and further trials.

@CoffeeLipstickKeys Relax .. go and get a coffee - like your name ;)

I believe in intuition. But it’s not infallible and absolutely can’t be relied upon. And it’s not magic, it’s based on unspoken communication.

Intuition isn’t a special gift. It’s clues that you are unconsciously picking up. You aren’t aware of them on a conscious level but your brain has noticed something is awry.

Women are particularly good at it because we have to be alert to danger as we’re more vulnerable. It just means we’re more aware than many men, but it doesn’t mean we have a hidden power to spot a bad person every time.

As PP have said, confirmation bias also means you remember the 10 times you were right but forget the 100 times you were wrong.

Autistic people often get tarred as weird, odd, or there’s “something off” - because of differences in communication, That’s what intuition is - something unconscious spotting discrepancies in communication and social presentation.

All of that aside, the only way you could use “intuition” to tell that LL is guilty is to have met and interacted with her.

Carefully curated footage of her arrest on TV and cherry-picked data is making you think you have some special insight. You can’t have insight about people you’ve never met when you’re relying on someone else to feed you information. It’s actually quite worrying that anyone would think they can “just tell” LL is guilty.

I’m not even suggesting that LL is innocent. But I do think the fact there was only circumstantial evidence and one of the main witnesses is now proven to have lied, plus you have a panel of the world’s leading neonatal experts releasing a report suggesting the medical data has been interpreted incorrectly, you’d have to be really bull-headed not to concede there’s cause for concern here.

The media was much more controlled then. We only had access to the information a small number of very powerful people wanted us to know. Social media has revolutionised our access to, and the way we consume, information - and there are good and bad consequences of that shift. For a start we wouldn’t be able to discuss the guilt or otherwise of Lucy Letby. Those conversations would be confined to doorstep chats or Panorama investigations. I agree with Saville. I ‘knew’ he was a creep even before I knew what a creep was. Jim’ll Fix It was a very uncomfortable watch, even if I couldn’t work out why at the time.

As far as LL is concerned, I don’t know. There are people convinced of her innocence and others convinced of her guilt. We can sit in debates like this, but you won’t change anyone’s mind. Once people decide something is true it is very tricky to persuade them otherwise. Look at Brexit voters still trying to cling to the illusion that it’s ’a good thing’ in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.

If there are ground for an appeal I’m sure it will be made. Other than that, I don’t think anyone can form an opinion unless they’ve read in detail all the court documents plus any other valid and robust evidence.

You see, that’s the thing your Intuition theory doesn’t hold up and you’re a bit touchy now. Well you said it, and then added the enigmatic you work with the forces to substantiate your intuition claims

@CoffeeLipstickKeys 🤣 ok

Yes I have to say i have noticed this with the "naughty" kids at my dcs schools over the years. Just take one look at the parents and the answers to why the kids behave so badly and they way they do is right there. Can clearly see they have an extremely dysfunctional home life. Its a shame as these kids dont stand a chance from birth.

This is seriously offensive thread and wondering why MN does not delete it. What are you expecting, a mum with a child who was murdered to come and share her story and all the mumsnetters to start typing their famous flowers or

@Rowgtfc72 oooh now that must of been a shock ! how where they as a couple ? My colleague met Ian and said he is very up and down - either ultra charming or quite the opposite

I know a prison officer who works at New Hall where Letby was jailed. (Though I think she’s in Bronzefield now).

Said she was very quiet and teary a lot. But spent most of her time on the protection wing.

Prison officer was adamant she’s guilty. Me, not so sure.

Do you think that’s because your prison officer friend has grown a bit hardened and cynical? I imagine there’s lots of people inside protesting their innocence when they’re very clearly guilty. Must make you a bit immune to any claim of wrongful conviction?

And 900+ postmasters.

I don't think it's offensive. LL is a continuing news story and information about her and her case is very much in the public interest, given that there could be a huge miscarriage of justice, which has implications for society. Obviously people are interested in it, and to know what she's like.

@Horsie agreed its not offensive in any way . Its a public debate about a VERY publicised topic - its exactly what Mumsnet was designed for !

@brightonchicka very close as a couple but he was in charge. He was upset at the time as a girl was accusing him of rape, we felt a bit sorry for him. Charming would be an excellent word for him.

Yes I assume this is the case. She’s dealt with Rose West and all sorts of women who’ve murdered and sexually abused their kids and killed their husbands etc. She tends not to get too emotionally involved in the prisoners but did say she felt absolutely no sympathy for Letby.

Dark forces or…?

Yes, agreed
multiple innocent people jailed, their families ostracised, suicide and despair caused by conviction

haha😂

@Allisnotlost1 star wars mostly 🤣 I couldnt really comment further without outing my line of work but i work closely with a specific force and agencies ( sorry that doesnt give much away )

Love that you persist using CAPITALS as if it has any gravitas. At all

@CherrieTomaties a colleague met Rose and said she was very popular with both staff and inmates .. but she could turn impulsively and be rather sharp tongued

Seriously, do you tell employer about your gift, Your heightened intuition that serves you well
Half the training budget, use your intuition , woohoo your way up the career ladder

Here's a variation on the theme. I knew a woman who was charged and convicted of murder. I say through the entire of her trial, and saw her afterwards. I am 120% positive that she did not commit the murder that she was convicted of, and the evidence was seriously inconclusive in significant areas. I am also 120% positive that I know who did commit the murder, that she did too and for her own reasons would not say, and the evidence at her trial was far more indicative of that other person actually being the murderer.

She pleaded not guilty and maintained that stance for many years until it was pointed out to her that she would never get out, never be considered for parole, never see her grandchildren. So she admitted her guilt and was freed.

It's a tough call to make, to have to decide whether you should continue to claim you aren't guilty and spend the whole of your life in prison, or admit guilt and get out. For Lucy Letby it is probably irrelevant - she won't be freed even if she admits guilt, but many of those previous miscarriages of justice went on for so long precisely because people refused to say they were guilty despite being convicted. Equally, we know that many of the postmasters actually admitted guilt when they didn't do anything simply because they were so overwhelmed by the evidence against them that they didn't know what else to do.

Fortunately, the majority of the time the courts get it right - or close enough. But we truly don't know just how many times they have got it wrong and got away with it either. Mahmood Mattan, a British Somali, was wrongly convicted of murder and hanged in 1952. 70 years later the police apologised, as they had got it wrong, as did the court. I am sure that made him feel a whole lot better about the whole hanging thing.

So have I. And I don't know a one of them who would give the time of day to woo instincts as a barometer of other people. Most prefer evidence and facts.