Am I out of touch, old fashioned or are people these days just super sensitive

[Ruggerlass]

I’ve got my hard hat ready. I’ve been on here a few months now and some of the things I read make me think it’s no surprise the divorce rate is so high. It seems like people in relationships don’t want to compromise and talk through any difficulties they may have and men are the public enemy number 1. Don’t get me wrong no one should stay in an abusive relationship etc of any kind. For the record I’ve been married 38 years, We’ve had our ups and downs but have worked through them which seems to be lacking these days.,

So because a man works 9-6pm he gets to just not bother with parenting? He should expect his wife to do all night wakenings (multiple times a night for years potentially), he can go on and live his life like nothing has changed with his job, his hobbies and his friends? Just because he has a job? This is a pathetic excuse for a man frankly and it could just be that other women have higher standards.

Honestly OP if my husband was as thoughtless and so uncaring towards me as yours has been, then I'd be having a hard time not resenting him. Years and years of self centred behaviour and letting your partner struggle is exactly why so many women realise they can do it alone.... because they already are.

I am in my 50s and have been with my husband for 30 years. I am the opposite to you. I’m shocked at what women put up with. I’m often disappointed at hearing about the behaviour of men and what women are tolerating in generations much younger than mine. I had hoped that that women were less inclined to tolerate misogyny and unfairness of domestic chores etc. Yet there is still in an imbalance and women come off worse. More women should be leaving.

i love reading about women with high standards.

I have raised my son and daughter to be young adults with high expectations from a partner and also high expectations of themselves. No regrets.

I would love women to have less tolerance of bad behaviour from men.

You've surely countered your own argument here. You threatened to leave. So, just like women today who aren't willing to put up with shit, neither were you. Lucky your husband changed jobs, otherwise, you'd be like the women you're saying don't 'talk things out and save the marriage'. You'd have left. Unless I've misunderstood your post, you threatened to end the marriage.

Raw one for me perhaps. I wasn't abused but left my marriage because of infidelity and lying about other things. Once tryst has been lost, there's no going back.

Life is short. Leave if it's miserable. Leave if you're being treated like a doormat. I am certain my children are healthier and happier in the long run with a single mother who is happy, values herself, and no longer walks on egg shells.

I've know two friends who left marriages because they were simply unhappy. All the others like me discovered affairs after children came along.

Maybe people just have higher expectations than you did?

I have been a SAHM for a few years (though going back to work soon) and wouldn't have accepted my DH leaving all the sleepless nights to me. Looking after children is just as important as working outside the home and I respect my own needs for rest as much as his.

I'm absolutely fine with him having hobbies and time with his friends because he facilitates the same for me. There's no universe in which I'd be left doing all the childcare whilst he did whatever he wanted.

I'm also fine with him having appropriate female friends (in the same way that I have male friends), but I wouldn't tolerate an inappropriate relationship, even if nothing physical happened.

I'm sorry you were left 'holding the baby' so much when your children were young. It must have felt incredibly lonely having to give an ultimatum for your partner to come help with your poorly children. But other women can and should expect better.

Sorry perhaps I didn’t explain properly. What I was getting at was from what i read and perhaps misunderstood is people are reluctant to have difficult conversations or believe that their partner will take on board what they’ve said so just,don’t communicate to try and resolve any issues

I mean… statistically we could say men are the public enemy number 1, really.

I’m unsure what you’re trying to get at. Yes, people are less flexible nowadays, but how is that any worse than being stuck in an unhappy marriage because there are no options, like back in the days?

Yes. I’m a middle-aged woman from a poor background, who hasn’t led an unusually sheltered life, and Mn has been an unpleasant revelation to me in terms of the apparent normalisation of terrible, unequal relationships, and frequent declarations that men like my DH and male friends, ordinarily decent human beings, don’t exist.

So you gave your DH an ultimatum and threatened to leave him and he did what you wanted and changed jobs in a very different economic climate (I assume over 30 years ago) and you think this is an example of working on a marriage because he did what you told him to?

And yet all of your examples of ‘people’ not working on a marriage are about how women shouldn’t expect a partner to show up?

ok.

Been married 51 years tomorrow and totally agree with this post.

Perhaps I didn’t explain things properly. My husband did help out and was very much hands on whenever he could and would take the children out to give me a break particularly at weekends if he was at home. That said he was very career oriented but rightly or wrongly I saw it as my role to support him in that he was earning 4 times what I was pre children. He didn’t have female friends as such but did have a female colleague he travelled with. To be fair he did change jobs, taking a drop in salary to spend more time at home

I don't think it's just about 'these days' or you being old fashioned as I see people say they've been married for years come out with some LTBs for things that are insignificant. I've seen a fair few say they would leave of there DH even raised their voice or swore at them. That just seems crazy to me. Regular shouting and swearing to intimidate is abusive, doing it in the heat of the moment when there is a tense disagreement is normal.

Can I just say he was not thoughtless or uncaring. Yes he rarely did the night feeds but I was at home. My firstborn was colicky and he would often pace the floor with him, change nappies etc and was very hands on as much as he could be.The fact that he changed jobs when my sons were 1&2 taking a significant drop in salary to spend more time with us speaks volumes.

What's normal for some marriages isn't normal for all marriages though.

DH has never sworn at me and I would absolutely leave him if he did, he would also do the same if it was reversed. It wouldn't be normal for my marriage and I wouldn't stand for it, it's just about basic respect to me.

I think women have put up with too much for too long and I'm very heartened that women younger than me don't put up with nonsense.

Yes I did give the ultimatum but the point I was making was i was prepared to talk it through to reach a solution which we did. I’d no intention of leaving until,we’d discussed the problem which I don’t think a lot of people do and just jump,ship.

You said they were 3 and 4 earlier.

Please try to keep your story straight.

I think a large part of the problem is the prevalence of nuclear families who live some distance from families & old friends.. it feels like there’s no community anymore. My mum was a SAHM but she still had help from her sisters and my granny. Also, people have to work SO HARD nowadays, and have long commutes. My father worked 20 mins away from our home. We were able to have breakfast and dinner as a family. I also remember everyone having beautifully kept gardens. I feel people are frazzled, and have very little ‘downtime’. Add in the pressures of social media and false representations of perfection, and the general cost of living which has been crap FOR YEARS… I can totally see how relationships can fold under pressure. Can see how couples can be too exhausted to work at things. Can see how the absence of resilience factors that your generation enjoyed (community)is affecting modern relationships. Used to be only one person (usually the father) had to work to maintain a reasonable lifestyle. Nowadays, it seems like both have to work, with one or both taking on a second job as well. I don’t think it’s a matter of modern couples not putting in the effort. The landscape has changed drastically and it’s so unfair to judge them by past standards. I do worry about our sons and the manscape exposure at a very early age. I live in NI, currently the most dangerous place in the UK for a woman to live, 3rd worst in Europe. I wonder how we can change things. It’s frightening. I have two brothers, who I thought were reasonable blokes. There was a very high profile court case in NI (google Ulster Rugby rape trial). I swear to God, one of my brothers sounded like Andrew Tate when that was going on. He’s no longer in my life. No idea what the answer to your question is, other than I think YABVU to compare today’s society with that of the past. Youngsters have it very hard today by comparison.

Sorry he set up his own consultancy business when they were 1&2 thereby an initial drop in salary. When they were 3&4 things came to a head when he was working long hours and often overseas on a long term contracts. After the discussion he dissolved the business having found a permanent job

Agree 100%, but just want to add even men who aren't abusive, but who just generally cheat (or micro cheat, messaging other women etc), or who walk all over the woman, should also just be ditched imo.

I'm afraid I disagree. I think it's fantastic that women don't feel obliged to stick out unhappy marriages any more. And I say that as someone who has been very happily married for 23 years. Some of the awful relationships women write about on here break my heart.

I don't believe for a minute men are 'public enemy number 1' either. I think women feel empowered to call out poor behaviour by men in a way they didn't before. That's great. And I say that as a mother to a wonderful son who I'm not remotely fearful for because I know he respects women.

SAHM mums expecting their partners/ husbands to do night feeds etc

So SAHM should be work/be on call 24/7 while men get a full night's sleep to do 7 or 8 hours of work a day?

Dad also gets uninterrupted shower and bathroom time whilst mum can't even pee herself. Dad gets to go to the gym after work and mum has had a great day because she managed to brush her teeth.

Nah, I don't think so. Dad you're getting your arse out of that bed at night and feeding your own child.

I really hate the idea that we should celebrate anyone at all for being decent people who meet a minimum standard. I hear 'good men' get 'celebrated' all the time just for not being dicks. It's infuriating.

You genuinely think women, many of them mothers, just up and leave their marriage of minor things with no discussion?

You either haven't actually read Mumsnet or you aren’t paying attention.

On most posts where LTB is on the table women have been desperately trying to make things better for years.

i have a teenaged son. He’s fantastic.

My husband and father are very good men.

I am fortunate that the men in my life and in my daughter’s life are sensible, hardworking, kind and stable.

The reason that the media is full of reports of angry, violent, abusive men is that the world is full of angry, violent, abusive men.

84% arrests are men
96% prison population is men
82% violent offences are committed by men
92% drug offences committed by men
98% sexual offences committed by men

The media aren’t imagining it.

As for celebrating the good ones? Our entire culture is set up to celebrate men. Wealthy successful men are venerated even when they are known to be bad husbands, bad fathers, terrible colleagues. Hell you can even get elected US President (twice!!)

My husband, father and father in law are role models for my son. Those are the men he looks up to.

As for wider celebrations of “good men”? Our standards as a society are very, very low, how often to posters suffering at the hands of clearly dreadful men say “he’s a good father”. Or “everyone loves him”.

SAHM mums expecting their husbands to do night feeds etc…

When I was on maternity leave I expected my husband to do some night feeds. Even HE thought it was fair for us both to share the load. I mean, I slept terribly during my pregnancy and still managed to get up early and commute to London 5 days a week so I’d say my husband should also be able to cope with some sleep deprivation once the baby actually arrived! I don’t see what is so unreasonable about that.