Grandson living with me and I'm struggling

[AngelicAbout]

Posting here for traffic

My son briefly dated a woman for a few months and ended up having grandson (16, 17 at the end of the month). His mum was his resident parent until he was about 11, there's a long backstory but she chose a man over him/her other children (son isn't the father of his siblings). He also came out around this time and his mum tried to guilt trip him. My son had full custody of him from then. He hasn't seen his mum in year's but she does send the occasional message although I don't think he replies to her most the time.

2 years ago my son moved grandson up here with him, son is autistic and has mental health issues himself and was quite lonely down in their previous area and was struggling with grandson and his school refusal at his old school anyway.

They moved here summer 2023, they were living with myself and my husband and grandson started Y10 at his new school that September. From the off we had issues with him refusing to go, he hated it, had no friends etc and was angry at my son for moving him away from his friends. Son promised he could move back down south for him to start college in their old area (I'm not sure why he said this as I don't think this was the plan!

After a few months we had the education welfare team out many times, he was very behind at school and they weren't sure he’d catch up. They figured out he was working at a year 8 level, no sen although I do think he is autistic like my son but he gets defensive and says he isn't. We got him a tutor over zoom and he was still on the school roll. It was 2 hours a day and the plan was to continue with the tutor but slowly work up to him being in full time school. This never happened, he went in for a few hours but he started refusing again and also refused to engage with the tutor. He would lie and say it had been cancelled etc.
This year he was due to sit his GCSEs but that didn't happen, he's agreed to go to college and sit them but that doesn't look likely. He's fixated on what my son said 2 years ago about moving back down south (we’re in Manchester) for college. Anyway that's the education aspect. My son ended up moving out and grandson stayed living here.

Grandsons behaviour is awful, he barely leaves his room, his sleep schedule is all over the place, he sleeps all day and is awake all night playing games and on discord calls to people in America etc. He self harms and has threatened suicide but I don't know if he's serious or trying to be manipulative, drinks/smokes weed. He likes cooking but doesn't tidy up after himself. He shouts at me for simple things such as putting a t-shirt of his in the dryer, putting his clothes away in his drawer to try and be helpful. Calls me an old bitch and other things. He doesn't eat during the day he cooks at night. Manipulated my son into giving him money for a new PC as he broke his previous one by spilling juice on it. He then got a virus on the new PC within a few days. Last Christmas he lied to my son about me taking his Christmas money
My son might be evicted so will more than likely move back in and he's not happy at all, that's when he threatened suicide (again), told me I shouldn't give him money when he asks (it's not up to grandson though!), said his dad ignores him and only messages when he wants something which isn't true he tries to make an effort but grandson ignores his messages. He does message grandson if I haven't replied to ask if I'm awake/ask him to get me to call him etc but he does message other times too.

Sorry this post is so long. I've tried getting Camhs involved but the wait list is long and probably will turn 18 before we get an appointment and I doubt he'd engage anyway. School tried to get him to talk to the school counsellor but wouldn't

If anyone has questions I'll answer and there's things I've not included as I don't want to make it too long

You've no chance as son is not supporting you but thwarting you at every turn. Grandson needs to live by your rules or go and live with father or mother.

My dd got the full award when she was nocturnal and hiding in her room.

I have stopped asking him to do things around the house as he'll kick off and not do it anyway! But when he came down earlier shouting at me it was totally out of the blue as I hadn't said anything and i’d taken the razors out of his room a few days ago and he knew this at the time

He is rarely pleasant, if he isn't shouting/kicking off he's ignoring me and not speaking to me at all

Living with his mum isn't an option at all, it wasn't the case of her sending him to live with my son, Social Services were involved and if my son refused to have him for whatever reason he would've gone into foster care.

Thank you @ArseInTheCoOpWindowi didn't realise that he could get it awarded fully. I might do what that poster suggested about trying to get an EHCP in first but I'm not sure if the college would agree straight away or if he'd agree to it himself

My dd didn’t want an EHCP. Again bribery worked wonders. She refused to speak to the educational pyschologist, but he said that in itself was enough to show her anxiety.

l suspect your dgs has severe anxiety. And is in ND burnout. The anxiety is driving his behaviour.

It's so difficult because he won't agree to help for his mental health/possible autism etc.

Last night he came down again asking for the razors back, I told him i’d thrown them away and he kicked off again, saying I ruin everything etc. I asked him why he wanted to self harm and he said no reason then he said he was bored because he didn't know what he wanted to play and then after that he went back to his room as if nothing happened. I don't know what to do now

Your son needs to stop funding your grandson’s destructive behaviour (paying for his internet use all night and weed etc). I’m not sure how he funds it himself tbh since it sounds like his own employment record is at best patchy!
Start having some conversations with your son so he can practice how he’ll say no next time your grandson asks him for weed money. You sound like such a lovely person, but your good nature is well and truly being taken advantage of, not to mention your poor husband having to put up with all of this.

You don’t do anything. You treat it like a toddler who wants to eat too much sugar before dinner and not get their nutrients.
You know best you’re not gonna give him any bloody razorblades so he’s not gonna self harm end of conversation. You handled it perfectly well
When you say any help for his mental health, what exactly do you think is out there? Helpwise ?

IMO, realistically there is no help for autism for teenagers and adults, except self help, if you want to read up on it or join support groups? Ditto ADHD, apart from drugs.

Same with mental health - there’s drugs, and apart from a short course of CBT, waiting lists for psychotherapy, etc are long. Mental health services gaslight, bully and lie to patients.

DD2 with 10 years experience of community and inpatient services, says MH professionals tend to fall into one of several camps:

1. they go into it because they are empathetic and caring
2. people from group 1, but are burnt out and don’t care any more
3. they go into it, because it’s a job and they can get a visa. They don’t care about patients, don’t understand them and have no empathy.
4. A few from group 3 enjoy the power and mock vulnerable patients

I have said this in an earlier post but perhaps you missed it.

Your son is entitled legally to a care act assessment. The social worker will be from your local council and they can also get him priority social housing as well as assess whether he needs a cleaner or a PA.

He can get a social housing home. He just has to go through the right channels.

Thank you, I'll look into that and tell him about it.

I know the MH services etc aren't the best but I have no way of getting him to engage or even just go to the GP to start getting help. Due to his age I assume CAMHS would need to be the ones to prescribe antidepressants? I could be wrong. It just feels like all he's doing it gaming and sleeping and that isn't helping his MH but I don't know what to do, especially because he's self harming and wants to. I just feel so helpless

The GP can prescribe and likely should in this case antidepressants - so ask them to do so, they can also look into other meds; anxiety meds, mood stabilisers, etc. But he likely can and should start with antidepressants.

Mixed with weed ? Fabulous idea

They don’t prescribe you under 18.

We had to see a private pyschatrist when Dd was 16

Would the Gp talk to me or does it have to be him now he's almost 17? I don't think he'd talk to them himself and I'm worried about how open he was about wanting to self harm last night

I have tried talking to my son about not giving him money but he just gives in anyway when grandson messages asking for money for food etc saying we have none in (when we do), it's the only time grandson messages so I guess he doesn't want to say no as than grandson won't message him at all which I do get in a way, but I don't see how giving into him helps.

My dd often wouldn’t speak to gp. They’d speak to us, but she had to acknowledge it on the phone.

Why doesn't your son check with you each time that the information is correct?

To be honest I can see why your son can't parent!

I'll try and phone the GP tomorrow, I don't know what ill do if they offer an appointment as he refuses to do anything that's asked of him.

I don't know why my son doesn't check with me before giving him money, I think it's just a case of grandson messages him and he gives him the money straight away 🤷‍♀️. RE the PC, I was actually away when it broke. My son was home with grandson to keep an eye etc as I certainly didn't trust him to be on his own for a week. He spilt juice on it so it obviously broke and he started threatening suicide if my son didn't give him money for a new one, so my son gave him money putting himself in his overdraft in the process. I had no idea about any it this until id got back and it makes me worry about leaving him/them again. My son isn't good with money as it is, he's always struggled with budgeting etc despite my many attempts to help him. I do end up giving him money most months.

Goodness me

you are a saint - I’d be dropping this one off at the homeless section of the local council

it’s not your problem and you can’t fix him

I'm hoping that OP will bring that up to the doctors/GP and they can get him help on the drugs, slowly going off them and likely if he has access to drug cessation services that will include therapy and at some point they will discuss using medication and have an assesment with, hopefully a psychiatrist or the GP. @ArseInTheCoOpWindow They are encouraged to try and not prescribe as quickly with under 18yo as they do with adults. However, they can and still do with under 18yo for more severe cases and also down to GP's and their surgeries discretion/policies on the threshold. So an adult at a low threshold is more likely to get them than an under 18yo at the same threshold. That's all, in OP's case I think most GP's (depending on their opinion and their surgeries policy) would prescribe him antidepressants even if it's on a temporary basis.

I was mainly addressing the OP's question over whether it would have to be CAHMS psychiatrist which prescribed anti depressants or can a GP do it as well - to which I'm saying a GP can. @AngelicAbout Ask the GP about a referral to adolescent/under 19 yo Drug and Alcohol Services as they have many different resources under one (support workers, links to housing as drugs can often impact that, therapy, dieticians, psychiatrists etc), so can be a great starting point of help.

NHS information and healthcare records immediately at 16 go under your child's control, (this can happen earlier if a child asks and is deemed competent, I did it) but at 16 and over, you can sign a form giving your parents access to book appointments for you, access your medical records and get all the information from any healthcare professional who talks to you (normally they only give bare minimum, for someone who has control, unless patient gives permission that it's fine). So you can get him to sign the form, giving you all access (ask GP reception for this, maybe don't tell him what it is, as he may reject the help - not amazing for trust but he needs the help).

However you can still go into appointments with him, with or without having the forms done (many people bring someone with them for support). I think getting access to his medical records, being able to have full and unrestricted conversations with his doctors etc is better for now - so I'd get a sign the forms so you can organise any referrals, talk to doctors if he doesn't etc.

Also ask the GP for a home appointment (because you think he won't come, may threaten suicide and get dangerous to himself and/or you) - hopefully the GP can do a home appointment so ask for this first. If not then you go regardless of whether he goes with you or not - write down a long and detailed list of everything, all the history in his life and all the issues and behaviours. Look through any of your posts if you forget, do it on your phone I'd suggest on the ntows app and then make sure you go through everything on the list and show the whole list to the GP. Also ask if possible for a double appointment so 20 minutes so you have more time to properly go through it all with the GP and maybe also ask for one with an interest in mental health.

I can't just kick him out, he's 16 and that'll ruin our relationship fully.

@TheLivelyViperi plan on calling the GP on my lunch break today, I hope they talk to me as I'm not on his file anywhere. It's just my sons details. He's never gone to that GP surgery its all been over the phone. My son called early last year and they didn't ask many questions they wanted to speak to grandson. They asked if he was suicidal and he said no, then they said they'd put the CAMHS referral in and that's all they could do. We haven't heard anything so I'm unsure if it went through. Then I called a few months ago. The receptionist was quite rude and dismissive, said to take him to A&E if we thought he was in crisis but other than that told us to wait for CAMHS.

He came down for a drink at 7 this morning and surprisingly we talked for over an hour. He said he's not going to college because he doesn't want to make friends. His plan is to be a twitch streamer like [twitch streamer he's obsessed with] and he’ll be rich that way. I didn't say much as he would've just argued anyway. He then asked for 4 comics for £55 I said maybe for his birthday, he then told me to hurry up as they're on eBay and accused me of lying anyway and went back to his room I went to talk to him 20 minutes later and he was asleep (at 9am)

My son is now saying he's suicidal because he's stressed about the eviction etc. I just don't know how to help them both

''My son does love him, it was just a shock when he was placed with him full time as it was sudden and prior to this he saw him most weekends but that's different to full time care.''

But OP, your son has conveniently absolved that full time care on to you, and is living elsewhere.
He's also giving money directly to your grandson and not to you?

Your son is massively at fault here, and needs to step up, whether he finds it difficult or not.
Failing that, Social Services should be involved.

Yes agree with all of this - contact SS and see about @AngelicAbout have a meeting with his social worker and explaining everything that happening and see about changing his support and referring him to new services etc. Also inquire about the process (only if you want to) about becoming his legal guardian even temporarily or also about getting the money for your grandson.

16 is a difficult age with consent issues. You may need to write to the GP Practice Manager, explain the long back history, and hope they can work together with you. Even if it's them inviting your grandson to reigster. He may not been keen, but if grandson thinks there's a possibility he may be able to access any benefits - .e.g. PIP, he'll need medical evidence and recent appointment.... throw him down some breadcrumbs that may motivate engagement.

it's good Grandson was at least talking to you about his plans. I think you did the right thing with just listening. But also you could consider asking questions like "How do you get people to follow you on Twitch" "how does the payment stuff work?" "are there courses at colleges that would help with that?) and breadcrumb again the way towards not ruling out college, if only to increase his followers count.

For your son, it sounds like you're often the shock-absorber for him when things are tough. You are better placed to know what his mental health is like, but you're already covering a huge load of his, by supporting your grandson. If your son needs more support, it's ok to tell him to see his GP for more medication or therapy, as you're struggling to hold everything together as it is.