Grandson living with me and I'm struggling

[AngelicAbout]

Posting here for traffic

My son briefly dated a woman for a few months and ended up having grandson (16, 17 at the end of the month). His mum was his resident parent until he was about 11, there's a long backstory but she chose a man over him/her other children (son isn't the father of his siblings). He also came out around this time and his mum tried to guilt trip him. My son had full custody of him from then. He hasn't seen his mum in year's but she does send the occasional message although I don't think he replies to her most the time.

2 years ago my son moved grandson up here with him, son is autistic and has mental health issues himself and was quite lonely down in their previous area and was struggling with grandson and his school refusal at his old school anyway.

They moved here summer 2023, they were living with myself and my husband and grandson started Y10 at his new school that September. From the off we had issues with him refusing to go, he hated it, had no friends etc and was angry at my son for moving him away from his friends. Son promised he could move back down south for him to start college in their old area (I'm not sure why he said this as I don't think this was the plan!

After a few months we had the education welfare team out many times, he was very behind at school and they weren't sure he’d catch up. They figured out he was working at a year 8 level, no sen although I do think he is autistic like my son but he gets defensive and says he isn't. We got him a tutor over zoom and he was still on the school roll. It was 2 hours a day and the plan was to continue with the tutor but slowly work up to him being in full time school. This never happened, he went in for a few hours but he started refusing again and also refused to engage with the tutor. He would lie and say it had been cancelled etc.
This year he was due to sit his GCSEs but that didn't happen, he's agreed to go to college and sit them but that doesn't look likely. He's fixated on what my son said 2 years ago about moving back down south (we’re in Manchester) for college. Anyway that's the education aspect. My son ended up moving out and grandson stayed living here.

Grandsons behaviour is awful, he barely leaves his room, his sleep schedule is all over the place, he sleeps all day and is awake all night playing games and on discord calls to people in America etc. He self harms and has threatened suicide but I don't know if he's serious or trying to be manipulative, drinks/smokes weed. He likes cooking but doesn't tidy up after himself. He shouts at me for simple things such as putting a t-shirt of his in the dryer, putting his clothes away in his drawer to try and be helpful. Calls me an old bitch and other things. He doesn't eat during the day he cooks at night. Manipulated my son into giving him money for a new PC as he broke his previous one by spilling juice on it. He then got a virus on the new PC within a few days. Last Christmas he lied to my son about me taking his Christmas money
My son might be evicted so will more than likely move back in and he's not happy at all, that's when he threatened suicide (again), told me I shouldn't give him money when he asks (it's not up to grandson though!), said his dad ignores him and only messages when he wants something which isn't true he tries to make an effort but grandson ignores his messages. He does message grandson if I haven't replied to ask if I'm awake/ask him to get me to call him etc but he does message other times too.

Sorry this post is so long. I've tried getting Camhs involved but the wait list is long and probably will turn 18 before we get an appointment and I doubt he'd engage anyway. School tried to get him to talk to the school counsellor but wouldn't

If anyone has questions I'll answer and there's things I've not included as I don't want to make it too long

Why can’t your son live somewhere else; why must he move back in with you if he’s evicted? He needs to find his own place and look after his own son.

nothing will change. You need to refuse son coming back so he can be housed and then tell grandson that he needs to move out with his dad. It’s not acceptable to be treated the way he’s treated you. And it’s not acceptable for your son to pass on his parenting responsibilities to you

My son does work but he's on his final warning due to not turning up so he may lose his job too. He struggles with his mental health and getting up everyday etc. I think he'd struggle to find a new place due to the price of rent and if he lost his job then he definitely won't be able to afford it.

The plan was for grandson to stay with him often but when it came to him decorating his room and things he wasn't interested and said he didn't want to stay. Presumably because he wouldn't be able to use his pc.

He is gay/bisexual I'm not sure which as he's never really spoken about it but when he came out his mum started crying and told him he wasn't then called her mum and the two of them were telling him he wasn’t. He talks to his friends where he used to live but doesn't see them often although he did last week at a concert but then he got angry because I’d been in his room

He isn't violent but he does call me names, and shout at me etc, my son was never like this

Your poor grandson has been rejected by the very people that should love him unconditionally. His whole life has fallen apart. He has been abandoned by his own parents. He will be unravelling. In your place I would be offering unconditional love. I would be organising counselling via the GP. I would ask his father to live elsewhere. Your grandson needs safety, security and love.

Your poor grandson. He's be failed by so many people.

His mother doesn't want him. She picked a man over him. She doesn't accept him.

His father can't hold a job. He can't maintain secure accommodation. He lies to him.

The school hasn't safeguarded him properly.

I fee so incredibly sad for him. He's parents are absent. He's away from all his friends. His only interaction is with randoms on the Internet. His MH is poor but it sounds like he doesnt think he deserves to get well or better. He's experienced a lot of childhood trauma.

You can't force him to access support or engage with therapy. I think you need support from MH charity to discuss harm minimisation if he's self harming. I also think you need to help him to do a safety plan in case he does feel suicidal. If he won't engage with you you could just print the information for him to help him get used to the idea.

I think he's going to need all the support he can get. I wouldn't put him out for name calling. I think he's expressing anger snd while you shouldnt ve the one getting it in the ear I can understand why he's mean to you. He's angry. He might resent you because his dad has moved him away from his friends to be closer to you. His dad's left him with you. It doesn't have to make sense, but he's got a teenage mind. I would keep him and give him stability. That would only change if he becomes aggressive.

I think it would be good for him to start college. What sort of courses might he be interested in?

I hope he's successful in spite of his shit parents.

My son does love him, it was just a shock when he was placed with him full time as it was sudden and prior to this he saw him most weekends but that's different to full time care.

He won't have therapy, I've tried that and so did school. He completely refuses. I've spoken to the GP and told them about the self harm but they said unless he's an active risk they cant do anything apart from the CAMHS referral and even then told me to take him to A&E which is easier said than done

If your son is diagnosed autistic, and has 2 or more care needs, like being bad at managing money, not being able to identify risks, or not being able to keep a habitable home then he may qualify for a care act assessment.

I have had one, and my social worker is helping me get priority housing too, as well as a PA.

It's a shame DGS wont entertain a diagnosis, because many doors to support don't open until you're on the systems as having care needs.

Please get in touch with social care though and explain your situation because you can't go on like this. They may have resources, area dependent. It really is a postcode lottery.

Cancel your Internet ... just for starters

Tell your son he needs to take responsibility and that your not doing it any more.

You will be living with both of them and taking abuse for the rest of your life if you don't harden your heart right now. You can't accept your son back in. He needs to present to the council as homeless and with full custody of his son, who needs to move elsewhere with his dad having called you a bitch and disrespected you endlessly. Where is this going to end otherwise?

I do feel for you, you are trying your very best but being let down by your son who is not stepping up as a dad. He should never have told his son he would move back down south, that’s a shocking thing to do to a boy whose mother has rejected him. The boy can’t trust anyone. People do lash out at those closest to them and it seems that what your grandson is doing. I’d actually tell him that you love him to bits but things have to change if he wants to stay with you. As a pp said upthread there needs to be rules - no weed, no name calling etc etc.

I think just focusing on these things to begin with could be an improvement then hopefully he will agree to some kind of help.
I really hope things get better for you because you shouldn’t have to deal with this.

Remove the computer from his room and put on timer controls if he stays up all night.

Are you in Manchester itself? The school should be using the new policy around EBSA (emotional barriers to school attendance - what you call school refusal).

You can find it here:
Emotional Barriers to School Attendance (previously Anxiety Based School Avoidance) | Help & Support Manchester https://share.google/tLOUWUqU0Dc0PASVW

Most of greater Manchester have EBSA policies if you are in one of the surrounding authorities.

Thanks to the poster mentioning harm reduction re the self harm, what would this involve? He doesn't talk about it and just ignores all conversation around it. I asked if he's at least cleaning the cuts and he just shrugged.

Social services were involved re his mum it was a complicated situation but yes she did choose the partner over her children (that's the short version) he was unsafe for them to be around but stayed with him. In one of the meetings his mum said she “couldn't be bothered”. My son was then given full custody. She was neglectful according to some of the things grandson said, he didn't have a toothbrush for year's etc.

As I've said, he has data so turning the wifi off wouldn't bother him. He is protective over his PC, has a password on it and I do worry if I tried to take it he would get violent. He hates me being in his room. I do wish I could see what he does go on especially for him to get the virus. He said he was downloading games

I've suggested a cooking course at college but he says just because he cooks doesn't mean he wants to do it for a job. And the only reason he does cook is he hates the food I make. I was advised to take him next week when the enrolment opens and see what's left but he's saying he doesn't want to do anything, just study maths and English for his GCSEs. I've told him he has to study something alongside it and he's adamant he won't. That's what makes me worry he won't go to college. I hope the college will talk some sense into him but I know they'll also be busy with many other students

He's also completely nocturnal, he was awake in the kitchen at 9am eating breakfast then he went to bed until an hour ago. It's just a cycle that's repeating itself and I can't do anything to make him stay awake. Even if I did take everything from him he just wouldn't be tired enough to sleep until tomorrow

So does that mean all adults have been avoiding the topic of talking about sexuality? Jeez. I think you all massively underestimate how important that is to him.

I repeat my earlier advice of the Switchboard helpline for support. You and his dad can call them for advice, too. Their phone line opens at 10am.

Not at all, both myself and my son have tried talking to him about it. Telling him we don't care who he's attracted to we love him no matter what etc. He just brushes it off and says it's none of our business

Please don’t make him resit his GCSEs as he’s clearly not interested. Instead look at level 2 apprenticeships which can be through colleges or training providers. They will help him get his functional skills maths English. If he likes technology, find a level 2 technology apprenticeship or alternatively a level 2 technology college course.

Also contact the NEAT team who work with young people not in education or training.

Its possible he’s depressed, personally I’d get some Gp advice. There’s also SHOUT and the Samaritans and the NSPCC.

ensure he looks round the college as it might spark something once there

Turn off the internet permanently. Turn off the electricity at night.

I don’t know what a pp meant by harm reduction, with regards to self harming; but the advice is to offer another way of causing pain, without cutting. One is to flick an elastic band on the wrist and the other is to hold ice cubes.

This sounds so rough on you OP. If this was happening to me I would get so mad I would become like a really strict teacher - firm but fair.

First of all read your son the riot act. Your house your rules. He needs to send money to you, not grandson, if you are to continue supporting them, as grandson cannot be trusted to use it wisely.

And could you had a chat with GS about WHY he needs to go to school and get an education? He might not be aware that he can’t live with you, gaming and sponging his whole life. Getting a decent job is his ticket out of there.

I don’t know how to turn off data on a phone, but learning how to do this might be your super power. In my experience, those who threaten suicide are far less likely to go thru with it than those who silently pretend all is fine. But obviously I am not an expert.

And can you start even small conversations with him to try to gain his trust? He has been given a really sh*te hand in life by people who were supposed to protect him (parents), so if you really want to help it’s going to take a long time to gain his trust and become that parent figure that he has never had.

if you want this role OP you can absolutely do it, but if it’s too much then maybe social services and the school need to get involved.

also, teenagers can be total shit-bags and then turn out okay in the end. Sending strength!

I think you need to try to reconnect with him in a different way. Suggest going together for a short walk, about 5 minutes each day. Nothing has to be said during these walks. If these go well, then extend it to grocery shopping. You need to train him to leave the house if he is to make a success of going to college, it won’t automatically happen come September. I would also stop with pushing autism on him. He clearly has a strong response to this and will need to get that help when he’s in a position to get help.

I think you need to try to reconnect with him in a different way. Suggest going together for a short walk, about 5 minutes each day. Nothing has to be said during these walks. If these go well, then extend it to grocery shopping. You need to train him to leave the house if he is to make a success of going to college, it won’t automatically happen come September. I would also stop with pushing autism on him. He clearly has a strong response to this and will need to get that help when he’s in a position to get help.

MindJam: Emotional and SEN support for Young People https://mindjam.org.uk/ this might be a useful service for your grandson. I think the best bet long term is to get the two of them into some kind of supported accommodation. Do contact social services. Do not let your son move back in.

I feel so sorry for your grandson, both parents have left him but before that his Dad dragged what is very probably an autistic child away from his school and friends at one of the worst time in his education to move a child.

You need to SS but the child has been through a lot of trauma and there is no easy fix for that.

you know, OP, your own marriage is at risk with this and you really need to put yourself first. You are having to deal with this but your partner doesn't have to put up with it. I'd be so worried that eventually he would walk and to be honest I wouldn't blame him. I think it's really vital that your son got his own place and that the grandson was in with him. If the cost of that was me having to move house myself then that's what I would do.