Grandson living with me and I'm struggling

[AngelicAbout]

Posting here for traffic

My son briefly dated a woman for a few months and ended up having grandson (16, 17 at the end of the month). His mum was his resident parent until he was about 11, there's a long backstory but she chose a man over him/her other children (son isn't the father of his siblings). He also came out around this time and his mum tried to guilt trip him. My son had full custody of him from then. He hasn't seen his mum in year's but she does send the occasional message although I don't think he replies to her most the time.

2 years ago my son moved grandson up here with him, son is autistic and has mental health issues himself and was quite lonely down in their previous area and was struggling with grandson and his school refusal at his old school anyway.

They moved here summer 2023, they were living with myself and my husband and grandson started Y10 at his new school that September. From the off we had issues with him refusing to go, he hated it, had no friends etc and was angry at my son for moving him away from his friends. Son promised he could move back down south for him to start college in their old area (I'm not sure why he said this as I don't think this was the plan!

After a few months we had the education welfare team out many times, he was very behind at school and they weren't sure he’d catch up. They figured out he was working at a year 8 level, no sen although I do think he is autistic like my son but he gets defensive and says he isn't. We got him a tutor over zoom and he was still on the school roll. It was 2 hours a day and the plan was to continue with the tutor but slowly work up to him being in full time school. This never happened, he went in for a few hours but he started refusing again and also refused to engage with the tutor. He would lie and say it had been cancelled etc.
This year he was due to sit his GCSEs but that didn't happen, he's agreed to go to college and sit them but that doesn't look likely. He's fixated on what my son said 2 years ago about moving back down south (we’re in Manchester) for college. Anyway that's the education aspect. My son ended up moving out and grandson stayed living here.

Grandsons behaviour is awful, he barely leaves his room, his sleep schedule is all over the place, he sleeps all day and is awake all night playing games and on discord calls to people in America etc. He self harms and has threatened suicide but I don't know if he's serious or trying to be manipulative, drinks/smokes weed. He likes cooking but doesn't tidy up after himself. He shouts at me for simple things such as putting a t-shirt of his in the dryer, putting his clothes away in his drawer to try and be helpful. Calls me an old bitch and other things. He doesn't eat during the day he cooks at night. Manipulated my son into giving him money for a new PC as he broke his previous one by spilling juice on it. He then got a virus on the new PC within a few days. Last Christmas he lied to my son about me taking his Christmas money
My son might be evicted so will more than likely move back in and he's not happy at all, that's when he threatened suicide (again), told me I shouldn't give him money when he asks (it's not up to grandson though!), said his dad ignores him and only messages when he wants something which isn't true he tries to make an effort but grandson ignores his messages. He does message grandson if I haven't replied to ask if I'm awake/ask him to get me to call him etc but he does message other times too.

Sorry this post is so long. I've tried getting Camhs involved but the wait list is long and probably will turn 18 before we get an appointment and I doubt he'd engage anyway. School tried to get him to talk to the school counsellor but wouldn't

If anyone has questions I'll answer and there's things I've not included as I don't want to make it too long

Your son isnt demonstrating love for his child.

He's moved him away from all and of friends and family to live with you and them promptly moved out himself

It sounds like you are the only constant in his life just now and he's pushing you to see if you leave him too

I agree with PP not to move your son back in if your GS doesn't want this. Use this as a conversation starter with your GS to say you will consider his wishes if he will consider yours

College or work from September or both. Some routine. Contact SS, get in whatever waiting lists you need to get this poor boy some help. He'll be 18 before you know it and then what? Ask him to leave?

Who is is financially supporting him? Stop the money for weed. Explain to him it's your house and your rules or go and live with his Dad. You need to toughen up but show as much love and care as you can. He is waiting for you to reject him too like both his parents have.

As for going in his room to put clothes away. Stop.
But agree some house rules. He wants treating like an adult with privacy so he needs to act like an adult.

Thank you all, some helpful comments.

He refuses point blank to go for a walk or the supermarket, he complains we don't have food in that he wants to eat so I tell him to come with me next time and we can get what he wants but he refuses and then goes on his own occasionally. We had a dog and even then he would never take her for a walk or come with me, sadly she needed to be PTS earlier this year

I'm not sure any of the websites for SEN children would help if he's refusing to even acknowledge it? He says he isn't autistic whenever I bring it up

My son gives him money, not me. As I said in a PP he threatens suicide/lies to him about us having no food in or his dad gives him money because he thinks the food grandson is eating is unsuitable

I do think college would be better than an apprenticeship and it's hard to get them too and it will be especially hard as he has no qualifications

You are doing an amazing job op. I think as a gp you can only do so much. Keep encouraging him. Keep believing in him. He might need some time to get himself together, but with your love and care he is in the best place.

Oh my goodness OP, what a lot you have on your plate at the moment 💐

I apologise if I have missed this-does your grandson have a social worker? If not, he needs one. I would describe the current situation as reaching crisis point.

-High risk behavioural pattern
-Threats of violence
-Drug use
-Self injurious behaviour

Your grandson sounds like he has had a terrible start in life, compounded by possible undiagnosed additional needs, sexuality based rejection & a significant change to living circumstances. He needs specialised support that all the love in the world cannot compensate for.

CAMHS are notoriously difficult to access; and once accessed in our experience are not all that helpful. Added to this your grandson is approaching adult service age too.

His parents have let him down here and this should not have fallen to you, but since it has, I think you need to prioritise social worker involvement and there has to be some kind of plan with boundaries if your grandson is to stay with you. This ahould also only be temporary, his dad needs to step up.

I have stopped putting his clothes away but now they're just all in the laundry basket waiting to be put away but he hasn't done it. He shouts if I put any of his clothes in the dryer because it ruins them or now he shouts if I put them on the line but the thing is he puts the washes on then leaves the clothes in the washer. Doesn't take them out then they do damp and I can't use the washer. It's like whatever I do he argues back its like he just wants to argue for the sake of it tbh. I do understand what posters are saying about turning the wifi off but he has data, turning electricity off or taking the PC would more than likely cause him to be violent. He hasn't been up to yet but I don't want to risk it.

Today I came downstairs and he’d left the kitchen in a mess, food on the table that he spilt, hadn't washed up his bowl or saucepan etc but he's now asleep so I had to do it myself because he would've kicked off if I woke him up to do it

I appreciate he's had a very rough start in life, but it doesn't sound like there are any consequences for his behaviour.

You seem to be walking on eggshells in your own house, and unless you make some difficult decisions nothing is going to change. I know you want to support him, but it shouldn't be at the detriment of your mental and physical health.

He doesn't have a social worker, they were involved briefly where he used to live due to his mum/her partner being w risk to the children. But they haven't been involved for years. When my son first got full custody of him it was a big change as he previously only saw him most weekends, but things were going well. It wasn't until when he was going back to school after Christmas when he was in Y9 he started refusing. He never gave a reason to my son or school or anyone and my son did sort of just let him stay off because he couldn't force him and didn't know what to do. He did try when he was living here and started Y10. He’d get him up early a few weeks before term started to get him used to it etc but that didn't help. He didn't care about having no devices, he just slept or he would get disruptive while I was trying to WFH which meant I had to give in as my son was at work and it was just myself and grandson. Education welfare were involved but the person that was helpful left and the next people didn't really help they just said he needed to be in school. But by this point he was about to go into Y11 and had been in a handful of times so he was more than likely going to fail his GCSEs as he’d missed so much. He's now due to go to college this year

I don't know if he really means it when he threatens suicide but I agree with posters that he wouldn't be that vocal about it. I do worry about the self harm though but he won't talk about it and doesn't even answer when I ask if he's at least cleaned the cuts

I’m so sorry, my heart breaks for this poor child. He’s crying out for love.
his mother abandoned him and his father found it too hard to parent full time. I hope he accepts help (mother of a gay 17 year old)

You sound a really kind grandparent and my heart really goes out to you.

Call social services on Monday, you should be able to self refer.

With the best will in the world, your grandson needs more support than you alone can give.

I’m horrified at your situation and tbh I don’t see how you are meant to achieve any of the things suggested.

I also think you are at quite high risk of violence from your grandson. That doesn’t mean I don’t feel sorry for him, I do, but in practical terms you also deserve a life.

So I would prioritise support for you. I’d ring the Kinship Carers charity suggested up thread, go and see your GP and get them to register you as a carer, and refer yourself to social services for a carer’s assessment. Something might come out of some of those things. Most of all I would tell these people about your son’s violence to himself and that you are afraid of him. Don’t hesitate to call the police if you are in active fear of him one day.

I will eat my hat if your grandson is not autistic. But that doesn’t mean very much at the moment. The only thing I would say is that the kids I know with autism that presents like this are doing things about 6-10 years later than their peers - life really can get better for them and those around them. But right now, this needs to be about you.

I wouldn’t try to parent him tbh. I hope the kinship care organisation can help a little. I personally would ring the national autistic society too.

OP you're being far too accommodating. Everyone, and I mean everyone, your son, your grandson, camhs, the school, are walking all over you.
Your grandson is not your responsibility. His father needs to step up, and if he's being evicted, so what, thats on him not you.

You are being disrespected in your own home by a misogynistic little shit.

You are allowing it to happen.

Hate to say this but it needs considering...

If he is spending all his time online, chatting on discords etc and very protective over his PC then there is a reasonable chance he could be involved with some dodgy, immoral and/or illegal stuff.

This could include: drugs/dealing (just need access to the post or couriers now), suicide chats, radicalisation/hate content, hacking/scamming or even child sexual abuse material. He could be a victim, perpetrator or most likely both.

Have you seen anything or has he said anything that might be concerning in that regard? Can you access his phone or Internet searches? If he is using Tor or a VPN, you won't be able to trace anything.

I'm not sure tbh. The drugs is a possibility as he does get weed from somewhere but I don't think dealing is a problem as a rarely leaves the house, then he says he doesn't go out because he's got no friends so what do we expect hum to do etc. The others are options but I'm not sure how id find out. He has a number password (a pin)for the PC so not something I’d be able to guess as it could be any combination if that makes sense. The same for his phone but I do see notifications from WhatsApp regularly, though his phone is locked so can never read the messages. I know he games with people from a different country like America but I think some are from the UK too. He calls them “oomfs” I'm not sure what that means, other times he refer to them as friends but apart from that he doesn't say much

Thank you to posters suggesting social services, would they do anything? I don't want to be fobbed off like I have with the GP, I've just been told to wait for CAMHS. If he won't engage how will SS help? Especially at almost 17

Here, there are Transition Teams at SS - covering teenagers and young people up to 25.

DD1 had a social worker from age 14 up to 22, after I requested a social care assessment for her and carer’s assessment for me. It is up to OP to spell out the seriousness of the situation to SS, as they try to leave care to the family, if they can to save money! Just tell them how it is, warts and all.

I'd describe him as a teenager at risk of homelessness, who has suffered family breakdown.

He also has a history of neglect as a young child and maternal abandonment.

"Oomf" is how terminally online youths refer to their friends (i learned this from lads at work the other day). I would be worried about radicalisation or images of child abuse, quite honestly. However, since you aren't in a position to check his PC, that's not much help to you.

If he doesn't go out, how's he getting his weed? Please don't tell me his dealer makes house calls...

Still contact Social Services and ask for advice. It might be worth asking for a carers assessment for you as well.

Thank you, I didn't know that. I do worry about that as he's said he wants to see these “oomfs” on his birthday.

He does go out to tesco which is a 5 min walk but apart from that he doesn't go out anywhere else, I assume that's when he's getting it.

I will contact social services but I don't know how to get them to take it serious, saying he's at risk of homelessness isn't exactly true as he's living with me and they'll probably ask why he can't continue etc. He's not at risk or unsafe living here how he was with his mum so I don't know how serious they'll take it as they're overstretched as it is. But I am worried if he doesn't go to college, he has said he only wants to go to do his GCSEs and I'm unsure how he will get up and go with how his sleep is but it's like an endless cycle. If I wake him (I have been around this time) he just gets in a mood and ends up going back to sleep anyway

Has he actually got a place at college? If not, you need to sort that asap.

I am so sorry OP, I really am.
You are stuck and he has fallen through the gaps.
And it is so easy for that to happen with ND students, especially those who won't concede they may be ND.
You got your son through and he has a job (even though you said he, too, may lose it), what does he do?
I know in some parts of Gtr Manchester there are apprenticeships designed for autistic people. Does your son have an EHCP? How old is he?
The whole circle you are all in is relentless, vicious and co-dependent.
I absolutely understand why your grandson is online so much as he is regulating and it is the only social interaction he has. That, and the nocturnal gaming, has become the norm for him and to remove it, well, I've been there too.
It never ends well but I am strong enough physically to take the aftermath, I won't always be.
Mine is still at school but the school refusing is hell - and I'm a teacher.
Anyone judging should know that only 30% of autistic adults are in employment.
I do not think CAMHS is fit for purpose and I think it is so odd they now have the remit/are the umbrella agency, as in the past they said they could not work with autistic teens.

You need to reach out to anyone who'll listen OP.
Someone needs to help you out here. Who's your local MP? Have you had any direct dealings with Children's Services?

Which colleges are you looking at currently?
Did the school just wash their hands of him at the end or had you off rolled?
Has the careers post 16 teacher been in touch at all/been any help? Attendance officer? SENDCO?

There is a genetic component to ASC - I'd be amazed if he wasn't on the spectrum himself.
But ACE - adverse childhood experiences - play their part too and the outcomes for looked-after children LAC are also poorer. Did you become a kinship carer officially or have you just been trying to turn it all around/going it alone?

I don't think going back South - if it was towards London - would have been that better for him if he is already smoking weed. There's enough roadmen/waste men up here, let alone being a top g down there. But if he is barely leaving the house, the only consolation is that he has not (yet) involved in county lines.

You are all existing. Surviving not thriving.
And as a primary care giver for two vulnerable people, as well as wfh, your body is keeping the score OP.
Everyone saying chuck them both out. It isn't as simple as that. But finding a solution looks bloody hard, love.
I assume you need your internet connection for work, too.
Following with vested interest. Vent to me at any time, OP.
Edit: I did find various agency website links but they won't be of any use, if he won't engage. That's why you need an intervention of sorts by an external agency for those in your situation. Hopefully, someone on here may have been through similar and can tell us both, how they got to the other side. Hand-hold in the meantime x

Do you mind me asking though WHY you are prepared to put up with this? Do you feel guilty about not intervening earlier or guilty that your son isn't adulting successfully? You've got a completely unproductive young man living with you, who's to all intents and purposes driven your long term partner away; he's rude and dismissive; not in work or education; leaves the house only to get weed; why are you just meekly putting up with it? Why not take a harder line with your actual son who's enabling the behaviour by paying for data and drugs and special foods?

Sorry, my post sounds blamey but I an outraged on your behalf by the mess your adult son has son has dumped on you!

He hasn't got a place, since last year I tried multiple times to get him to to open days but he just refused and said it didn't matter since he was moving anyway. I tried to get him to go a meeting as I found a course that might be good for him but the day of the meeting he refused to get ready and go. I emailed the woman and she said she couldn't do much if he wouldn't engage and offered a phone call with him but he refused that too. I've been advised to take him when enrolment is starting to see what's left. I'm hoping he agrees to come but if there's nothing he fancies he'll refuse to apply anyway.

This is the course: OVERVIEW
This course is ideal for learners who don’t yet know which career path they want to follow and need to develop their maths and English skills.

WHAT YOU'LL LEARN
Learners will study maths, English and employability skills and have a weekly tutorial. Learners will also sample three vocational areas from a choice of 13 around College and complete a 30 hour work placement.

The following vocational areas are available:
• Art and Media
• Beauty
• Brickwork
• Business and IT
• Catering
• Gardening
• Hairdressing
• Health and Social Care
• Joinery
• Motor Vehicle
• Painting & Decorating
• Performing Arts
• Retail
• Sport

It's a foundation learning course but it doesn't say anything about needing an EHCP and I do think it’d be suitable for him, it's just whether he'd engage

Whatever your GS wants, send him to live with his Dad.

This!