The school run has put me off other women

[SueSuddio]

I used to have a woman problem. In my 20s I mostly sought out male friendship & thought I had nothing in common with other women save for a couple of female friends.

When I got pregnant and had children, my head spun and I felt ashamed of myself with all my internalised mysogyny. I was lucky to make some lovely friends - I gravitate towards women now.

However, I was then introduced to the school run. Tons of women, tons of cliques. And I had a flashback to the bitchy girls at school, the bullies and even my friends who were nice one minute, nasty or ignoring me the next. I'm not getting bullied now, but I'm often getting ignored.

I still think I had internalised mysogyny when I was younger, but I also think it was completely supported by the female nastiness I encountered, echoes of which I see at the school gate.

Hoping it passes but can anyone relate?

@DelilahMy thank you, honestly, that's made me a little emotional.

Well, I'm (completely) sure I do many things to piss others off but I had a room full of male and female friends celebrate a big birthday with me recently so I must have learnt a thing or two. For someone who'd been bullied so badly at school, that felt amazing.

There's some hard truths here and it's fine, that's what I'm here for, sometimes it's good to get tough love.

I think it's my reaction because I'd buried a lot of these clique memories - or exclusiarly 'friendship groups' as some here are saying and now I'm back in a school environment it's brought it all back. Yes, my year group has one, I am friendly with some of the clique as an outsider and maybe long-term that's the best thing.

I agree with a pp about the mental leap from 'these women are ignoring me', to starting feeling negative about all women. I can feel my head doing this and I don't want to go there.

I haven't got an answer, there's been some great replies to think on so thank you.

It’s not shite. She was bullied as a child, had bad experiencing with friends, repeatedly this experience become traumatic .

The way you have written this post with 0 empathy and with such superiority, compared that to the way op wrote her post narrating her experiences for her but also having self doubt, I think you are the one who is coming across aggressive and bitchy and op as much nicer person.

It takes a while to find a group that you gel with. I think most people are just really busy and as others have said, only have time to say hi to the people they already know.
Having said that, I have recently seen an unpleasant side of one of the mums in our little group. She’s shown herself to be a shameless social climber and it’s clear she’s only interested in people who occupy what she deems to be a higher place in the school mums hierarchy. It’s quite subtle though, it took me a while to see it. It’s beyond me why any grown adult would revert to high school mean girl behaviour. I just keep her at arms length as we will always see each other at parties, sports days etc.

And what do you think the school run would be like if it wasn't 80% of the time the mum who was doing it? Do you not think it would be groups of men standing around talking?

Actually, if you are part of a good male team or have been brought up with lots of men in the family, you can relate better to men. My father definitely brought me up to think like a man. What drives me nuts is having to listen to all the unnecessary detail about how one should bring up a child or decorate a house or cook a meal. I am not stupid. Why would I want to listen to someone else telling me what is good for my child.

Women talking to me = making friends
Women talking to other women without involving me = "Bitchy, cliquey school gate mums".

That’s your comprehension issue. You removed all the relevant information and arrived at a conclusion suiting your agenda to make a point and think you are better.

In fairness to the OP, often other mums who are not part of the group are having to weave around a group of chattering mums if they're standing in the middle of a busy footpath, right in front of the school gates, etc. As in lots of other situations, herd mentality kicks in with groups making it difficult for others to easily pass by, and for some, it can feel intimidating.

It is amusing that women here are responding to allegations of bitchiness by being really quite bitchy 😆

In my many years of school runs (eldest in secondary now), this has truly never been my experience. I don’t begrudge people having friends and sticking to chatting with and hanging out with the people they know.

I am the most non-school gate mum you will meet. I don’t talk to anyone, unless they corner me. 😂

I have friends through school, who are dc’s friends’ parents or parents I know from somewhere (activity I do, helping with village cream tea or whatever). But I don’t really want to hang around and talk to them. I’m not in any school WhatsApp groups. I’m not in any school drama. Okay, I did report another parent for harassment (abusive dad of another mum, known for DV and harassing his neighbours) but it’s not someone anyone else likes anyway and it blew over in about a week after the police paid them a little visit. 😂 But generally no ongoing drama.

But I don’t really look to the school run as a place to make friends. I have friends. I have a busy life apart from my kids and being a parent. I know for some people the school run is all they do and their whole world, but it’s literally like brushing my teeth. It’s just a necessary task, like taking out the bins. Be nice and polite to everyone and get in and out. Make friends with people you actually like.

You will find this splits firmly into two camps.

Those that recognise the cliques and steer clear, whether that’s due to past experience or lack of interest

Those that are in or leading the cliques, that protest and say they are lovely people etc etc

I have been part of both - and both views are broadly true.

It is up to you how you manage it, but be aware of your bias and personal lens. Be aware this is your child’s community - not yours, so be respectful to everyone and you won’t go far long. Open up and tell them your darkest secrets - that’s on you when it backfires!!

This always annoys me.

If you went to college or university and were waiting to go into a lecture, did you expect everyone to talk to you and invite you over, or did people tend to chat to their friends? For me, I chatted to my friends and didn’t expect anything different. Same situation. You don’t have to interact with everyone who happens to be in the same vicinity. Some will catch your eye and chat, others won’t.

And re women being more bitchy. Not in my experience. I’ve worked in some wonderful all female teams. The only bitchy team was all male except me. They spent all of their time putting each other down and trying to make each other look stupid.

Give me a group of women any day.

Honestly the best thing you can do is stop caring what people think. Do the school run, be polite to people who are nice, avoid whoever isn't and once you leave the school don't give it a second thought.

Try cosying up to the Dads at the school gate instead then.

Why does getting on better with men mean you have internalised misogyny?

The best thing you can do is to have a proper subjective look at their behaviour and yours.

Is it really ALL the mums? You already seem to be inclined to admit it isn’t. Are they one whole big group or lots of little groups? Are there any other mums on their own(there were actually more of those at DD’s school than women in actual cliques)? Are they actually ignoring/excluding you?

Are you smiling/friendly/open? Do you say hello? Do you ask kids/mums over for a playdate at your house /at the park? Are you actually open to a friendship/acquaintanceship with these women?

These questions is not to say it’s all in your head/it’s your fault, but sometimes perspective can be hugely influenced by past experiences ,a strong instinct of self preservation and confirmation bias.

These threads are ridiculous. I do think being back in a school can bring up old memories and feelings and these get placed on the other people you see and you are reading situations that just aren't there. I've got a group of friends from my kid's school, some of whom I am extremely close to. But sometimes on the school run I might just stand on my own and not go over and chat cos I am winding down from work/hot/can't be arsed, no one thinks I'm ignoring them, they just think my social battery is flat. Or I might end up chit chatting to another parent who I haven't seen for a while. Thid is all adult behaviour. Thinking you're being excluded/ignored is you being the one still stuck on the playground.

The average primaey school has 300 kids, lets say thats 200 parents, and you say they're all ignoring you?

I’ve never understood this thing about “cliques” surely it’s just people that are friends and know each other standing chatting? Do you expect everyone to stand in a big circle and talk? It’s just groups of people chatting! Yes some of them may do things outside of the school together and god forbid not include the whole class mums because they are…Friends. Start chatting to people, work on your social skills and make an effort to include yourself and make friends. That’s just what most people do!

I sympathise OP. I was bullied as a child and young teenager, again when I was pregnant and newly qualified in the workplace.

I never made any friends at the school gate really. Mainly because I work full time and always have and so wasn't always there for drop off and pick up.
But also because I am very wary. Of people overally. Sadly especially of groups of women.
You don't have to make friends with other school mums. Be polite, say hi etc. Don't invest if you don't click with someone, having a child the same age is not necessarily enough to build a friendship. More meaningful connections will be available elsewhere.

Bullying cuts deep. You are not alone in feeling that. 🌻

I think people are right that people have established friendship groups and there's automatic right to be incorporated into a group, but I also think there's a lot of faux naivety here. That's not the complaint. It's when these groups won't even pass the time of day with an "outsider".

Absolutely.
Especially the smile with you on Monday, ignore you on Thursday weirdos.

OP - you are not imagining it - as many would have you think.

Just focus on dropping/getting your DC and forget the school gate drama.
(If you make some good acquaintances - great. If not - no skin off your nose).

Is there some gaslighting going on on this thread? 🤣

Yes, I agree actually, you're right.

Exactly this! 👏👏

See,I've been doing school runs for 25+ years and I've never, ever seen 'cliques' of school mums bitching or gossiping about other people! I see parents who dash in and out because they're in a rush, or a couple of friends having a chat, or even a group having a catch up......but I've never seen the bitchy cliques!