The school run has put me off other women

[SueSuddio]

I used to have a woman problem. In my 20s I mostly sought out male friendship & thought I had nothing in common with other women save for a couple of female friends.

When I got pregnant and had children, my head spun and I felt ashamed of myself with all my internalised mysogyny. I was lucky to make some lovely friends - I gravitate towards women now.

However, I was then introduced to the school run. Tons of women, tons of cliques. And I had a flashback to the bitchy girls at school, the bullies and even my friends who were nice one minute, nasty or ignoring me the next. I'm not getting bullied now, but I'm often getting ignored.

I still think I had internalised mysogyny when I was younger, but I also think it was completely supported by the female nastiness I encountered, echoes of which I see at the school gate.

Hoping it passes but can anyone relate?

No, I agree with you, OP. I think there is definitely an air of "something" at the school gates. Perhaps it IS a ME problem, but I've very much got the impression that there's some kind of hierarchy or whatever within the school Mums from schools I've been to. In saying it's a ME problem, most of them are rich enough to not work, so I don't have a lot in common with them from the off, as I work 40 hours a week most of the time, and by virtue of that I'm not often at the gates anyway. But there's definitely some air of snobbishness. I did make some mum friends but they were all in a similar situation to me i.e working hard and not interested in getting in everyone else's pocket and gossiping. You're not missing out on anything good! X

The school mum WhatsApp groups are worse!

I do relate and never got involved. I had friends and made friends at work, didn't need gossip and inane laughter. Just avoid, don't get there early, be busy. You're not alone, many people feel the same.

Wow OP, sorry for all the attacks on this thread. Females can be nasty, you've experience that in the past and are sensitive because of it. I can understand your perspective because we are all shaped by our experiences.

Try to find a neutral space in your head on the school run where you are completely fine just waiting alone and try to feel peaceful about that time you have to yourself, then if you chat to people it's a positive, but if not it's completely neutral. Perhaps use it as time to focus on bringing yourself into the present moment and a mini meditation. Sometimes when we are feeling left out it's because of what is going on inside our heads but it's not a deliberate act to exclude us.

Nearly everyone on the school run feels like an outsider until they get to know a few faces to pass the few minutes with - usually after going to a birthday party or a play date.

Ive always made a point to smile and say hello to singles on the school run - some don’t want to chat, and I don’t take it personally. Some are relieved. Eventually I had a few groups I could stand with.

Men and boys socialise differently. They don’t require as much proof of friendship, or monitor for micro expressions. If you speak once, and then again 5 years later the gap between isn’t a barrier to friendship. I’ve known a few autistic women who find the male dynamic much easier to understand and navigate.

What we’re saying is that is not an universal female thing, or even a female thing at all.

OP I think you've had some very unfair responses on here (not surprised really it IS aibu!!) but I agree that there is a "mean girl" clique at my kids school too. Honestly I couldnt personally give a shit about it because there are plenty of other perfectly nice parents I'm happy to chat with if I'm in the mood to BUT I've seen other mums get really upset by the childish best mate one week then bitching behind their back nonsense the week after.

Agree it's a you problem, and your internalised misogyny.

Are these women really being bitchy or you just talking to people they know for a few minutes? I don't know why people seem to have this expectation that everyone on the school run ought to embrace you with open arms, sense your "aloneness" from the other side of the playground and pull you into the fold. Otherwise they are bitchy. It's weird.

Quite often on the school run I've popped out of work for 15 minutes. My brain is frazzled and I am thinking about work and rushing to get back. I will talk to someone I know if I see them close by but it's absolutely not a time I am inclined to want to make new friends.

That’s not that it’s not a thing then, just that it doesn’t bother them / they’re able to avoid it.

Yes, making the OP’s point for her.

It was somewhere in the middle depending on the OP’s response. If she hasn’t been even mildly sociable, people might think she doesn’t want to interact. If she’s tried and literally been ignored then she has a point.

Women in general are like that

They all twitter on about sisterhood, but it's dog eat dog really

Men are competitive, but not in the same way as women

Speak for yourself. 😂. I don't do drama because I really can't be arsed. I like friendly people so I'm friendly myself, we can all only talk about our own experiences can't we. I've met amazing women and horrible women, same with men.

Same! With one kid I had to drop and run, didn’t have much time to interact. Saw parents chatting - dads as well as mums-
who had time to walk out together. Never thought it was a cliques - because it wasn’t.
2nd kid - I had time to walk, chat etc and people were friendly. Even though they knew each other better.
this whole ‘ school mums clique’ thing drives me mad, more pointless misogyny.

The problem is if you don't make some sort of connection and are on friendly terms it can really affect your DC. In my dds class the mums only organised playdates with the children of the parents they were friendly with regardless of whether the kids got on.

Amazing how just because people haven't experienced something they dismiss it as not real.

Different schools have different vibes. Even different classes in schools have different atmospheres. For one of my children the mums in the class are lovely - everybody will say hi, give a smile and make small talk with everyone. Yes some are closer friends but nobody just ignores anybody. My other child's class the mums are sooo divided and there is a large group who blank others, or who will chat then literally walk away half way through a conversation because they see a member of their group coming along, or will ignore you if they're with this group.

Just because it doesn't happen at your school doesn't mean it's not the case elsewhere.

Ok I'll play. How big is this "large group" who are consistently ignoring anyone not in the group, and how many are in the class?

Are you saying that if someone went up to this group and said hello/tried to make conversation, they’d completely ignore that person? Turn their backs?

Could it also be that people in the 'clique ' are a bit socially awkward and don't know how to respond to people outside their comfort zone?

I was bullied by various groups of people in school. I was a bit weird, so probably didn't help myself much either. It did take me some time to switch my perception of other groups as 'they're all going to hate me/ they're all sneering at me/looking at me funny' to a more neutral one.

One the parents in dd's class was like this. FB posts full of people being shits/ rude etc, yet if you saw her about and tried to smile or say hi, she'd avoid you.

Gosh a lot of very defensive women on here, totally belittling how you feel. Your feelings are valid. If you don't feel comfortable in a situation, then don't let anyone make you feel that it is a "you thing"... Yes women can be utter bitches and you are not alone in feeling that. The people defending this so strongly, probably unconsciously display this behaviour to others and don't wish to acknowledge it. Drop the kids off, leave and go home and move on. You are not wrong though and no one has the right to make you feel like you are imagining a situation.

I love women, I really do. I have some amazing female friends and I think female comradery is the most amazing, beautiful thing. I've seen it in action many times. We're great at helping and supporting one another when we want to be. Truly great at being there for one another.

However, female bitchiness is also a real thing in a way you just don't see in male friendships. I don't know if it's because society is set up to pitch us against one another or because society treads on women so we just feel more competitive against one another. For whatever reason, it's undeniably there.

Try working somewhere like a children's nursery where male staff are rare. It's the bitchiest, pettiest work environment I've ever set foot in and I'll never go back.

Also, just to add my own direct experience of school gate mums "ignoring" me:

I had the most lovely group of school mum friends with my eldest, when he left I was so sad but thought I would make new friends again when my youngest started.

OMG. Couldn't have been any more different. No-one speaks to us, we are completely blanked by everyone except the mums who also have younger children there that I knew from before. I was so disappointed.

I did "make friends" or so I thought, with one mum. I asked if anyone wanted to come to soft play after school and she came. I think she was hoping others would also come as she kept looking around and towards the door, but we spent two hours together and conversation was pleasant. I added her on Facebook and she accepted.

Then she completely and utterly blanked me. Literally I would say "morning" as she passed by and she would just stare straight ahead and not make eye contact. I thought maybe she was just in her own world and didn't notice me or something but then on parents' evening while waiting outside the classroom she came out with her child. I said, brightly, something like "Oh hi, how did it go" and before I could finish the sentence she said "Bye, Stacey*!" to the other mum waiting and breezed out, ignoring my existence. My mouth fell open and I looked behind me in shock and the other mum saw so it must have all got back to her.

I deleted her off Facebook and have blanked her ever since. I just don't understand what I did.
I mean, I'm fine, I have plenty of friends, but wtf did I do? 😂

*all names are changed

I find this trope about the school gates so weird. If people are standing in a group talking, they're not a "clique". Would you say that about friends on a walk or at the pub? They're just women who are just as busy and frazzled as you are, and they're taking the chance of a 3 minute catch up with people they know. Introduce yourself, you might realise they're not evil high school bullies after all.

I am absolutely belittling how the OP feels. ‘School mums’ aren’t some uncontacted tribe or alien species, they’re other women exactly like the OP in the sense that they’re (1) female and (2) have children at the same school. It is not the job of a random selection of the British public to rush to befriend her, and, frankly, if the way she posts about women on here reflects the way she presents in RL, I’m not surprised she struggles socially. Internalised misogyny and stereotyping are not appealing to other people.

I mean, I’ve been the one standing alone in an ‘unfriendly’ schoolyard for four years, and it was no fun at all, but even at the time, and after I’d made a lot of effort to integrate, I didn’t blame the other women involved. After I’d been there a bit, I realised how ‘unusual’ I was (foreigner WOHM to start with) in a place where that was almost unheard of, and where pretty much everyone else had gone to school together. It didn’t matter how involved in the PTA and local events I got, how much litterpicking I did, how many invitations I issued and play dates I hosted. I just wasn’t their type of person. Nor were they mine.

Let’s not pretend that people’s own prejudices and past experiences can’t put a spin on things, that aren’t necessarily reality.