Page 8 | About Gender neutral loo

paulhollywoodshairgel · 2025-08-14T17:59:39+00:00

I was in a museum today and my daughter (15) left me to go to the loo. She then waved me over.. she said to me.. I’d rather not use the gender neutral loo. I said that’s fine and sent her down a level to the ladies. A woman the approached me and preceded to tell me off for not encouraging my daughter to use the GN loo. How she has a trans child and how are they ever going to feel accepted with people like me around. I’m ND and I always second guess myself 10000 times a day. I wasn’t in the wrong was I?? I just said ok go and use the other separate loo. Surely my child can pee wherever she feels comfortable??!! I hate conflict so I just said ok and walked off!

BundleBoogie · 15/08/2025 12:16

OneCoralCat · 15/08/2025 10:56

That's an entirely different issue then isn't it. Your worry is being attacked. Not having a camera installed or the loo being dirty.

If you scream in a museum toilet, someone will hear you. I've not seen any data that firmly says attacks are more common in mixed sex loos, but either way, you're entitled to feel that way. But I was asking the people worried about cameras and wee on the floor, no one had mentioned screaming or being attacked prior to that.

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I think, as a society, we should be striving to raise the bar from being filmed or attacked in the toilets or having to use a dirty space that smells of male urine or faeces to providing clean and safe spaces for all.

The safest type of space is single sex cubicles for reasons I mentioned a couple of posts ago and risks generally need to be assessed and mitigated.

Your quaint tea shop with space for one toilet is far more likely to be frequented by non sex offender old couples that know how to behave like civilised human beings and have little tech expertise so it is less of a risk to others than other spaces. It may be a greater risk on medical grounds (heart attacks etc) but as there is only one toilet and a spouse is likely to be waiting, the risk is mitigated somewhat.

MrsSkylerWhite · 15/08/2025 12:16

DrPrunesqualer · 14/08/2025 19:02

Of course you weren’t in the wrong

Men put cameras in these mixed sex toilets and wee all over the floor

Id have told her to mind her own business

Was this Perth museum, by any chance OP?

If so, no such concerns there. Floor to ceiling tiles, spotlessly clean, no wee on the floor!

CohensDiamondTeeth · 15/08/2025 12:18

OneCoralCat · 15/08/2025 12:01

The first one isn't even about toilets, it's about changing rooms.

The second one doesn't have any data about attacks in toilets, just guidance on best practice and the law, and peoples opinions on why they don't want to use mixed spaces.

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Can you not extrapolate from changing rooms to toilets?

The point is that women and girls are at increased risk in mixed sex areas.

Like I said I just did a really quick google, there are better links but I don't have any to hand right now

OneCoralCat · 15/08/2025 12:19

CohensDiamondTeeth · 15/08/2025 12:15

I think you are being deliberately obtuse.

Your tesco example is stupid. You could be robbed in tesco yes, but I'd expect it to happen in a quieter area (like the toilets) where there was more chance of getting you alone where you are more vulnerable, and less likely that they would be spotted by anyone who might intervene or report them... Similar to how a sexual predator is more likely to assault a woman in a quiet tesco toilet than in an aisle.

This is about increased risk to women and girls in mixed sex toilets. So yes there is still a risk of a hidden camera in a cafe's single use mixed toilet, but with less footfall to that toilet and cafe staff who check as well as clean it, the chances of a hidden camera being found in that toilet are higher.

Do you lock your door to prevent theft of your household belongings? Why? Surely your house could be broken into and your things stolen anyway right? If you lock your door surely it's less likely that some opportunist could just waltz in and take your things? This is not a perfect analogy but the basic stuff is there.

We know there are risks to things, we mitigate those risks as best we can, so for toilets we keep them single sex in order to mitigate risk to women and girls.

It's about risk prevention and harm reduction because total prevention is sadly not achievable.

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I am genuinely not being obtuse. My opinion is, if you think you are at risk of dirty toilets or cameras being installed in spaces shared by two sexes, you're no more likely to have that happen in a museum than in anywhere that single sex toilets have gone unquestioned for years. The Tesco example probably was daft, but its as daft to me as someone telling me they feel unsafe in a mixed sex toilet in a museum but not in Costa.

There is genuinely nothing anyone can say to me that will change my opinion on that. As I've said multiple times, I'd certainly never tell anyone which toilet they should use, or that they should feel comfortable in any particular place, but people that don't care (like me and others on this thread), do exist and for people to keep broadly saying 'women don't want that' is infuriating.

OneCoralCat · 15/08/2025 12:21

CohensDiamondTeeth · 15/08/2025 12:18

Can you not extrapolate from changing rooms to toilets?

The point is that women and girls are at increased risk in mixed sex areas.

Like I said I just did a really quick google, there are better links but I don't have any to hand right now

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I think the extrapolation of things to fit their narrative is half the issue.

CohensDiamondTeeth · 15/08/2025 12:26

OneCoralCat · 15/08/2025 12:15

I've never stripped off to go to the loo and always do so behind a locked cubicle door. Communal changing rooms with curtains for example would be entirely different.

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But women are still in a vulnerable state of semi-undress in order to use a toilet.

It's about privacy, dignity and safety.

Justwrong68 · 15/08/2025 12:31

Anyone who eavesdrops and comments on a toilet conversation between mum and daughter needs to justify their position on something they’re not entirely comfortable with.

DrPrunesqualer · 15/08/2025 12:35

OneCoralCat · 15/08/2025 12:19

I am genuinely not being obtuse. My opinion is, if you think you are at risk of dirty toilets or cameras being installed in spaces shared by two sexes, you're no more likely to have that happen in a museum than in anywhere that single sex toilets have gone unquestioned for years. The Tesco example probably was daft, but its as daft to me as someone telling me they feel unsafe in a mixed sex toilet in a museum but not in Costa.

There is genuinely nothing anyone can say to me that will change my opinion on that. As I've said multiple times, I'd certainly never tell anyone which toilet they should use, or that they should feel comfortable in any particular place, but people that don't care (like me and others on this thread), do exist and for people to keep broadly saying 'women don't want that' is infuriating.

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Everyone has a choice. But from a simple risk assessment pint of view mixed sex spaces such as toilets and changing rooms do present a risk to women

Some women might be fine with that but it doesn’t change the facts

CohensDiamondTeeth · 15/08/2025 12:37

OneCoralCat · 15/08/2025 12:19

I am genuinely not being obtuse. My opinion is, if you think you are at risk of dirty toilets or cameras being installed in spaces shared by two sexes, you're no more likely to have that happen in a museum than in anywhere that single sex toilets have gone unquestioned for years. The Tesco example probably was daft, but its as daft to me as someone telling me they feel unsafe in a mixed sex toilet in a museum but not in Costa.

There is genuinely nothing anyone can say to me that will change my opinion on that. As I've said multiple times, I'd certainly never tell anyone which toilet they should use, or that they should feel comfortable in any particular place, but people that don't care (like me and others on this thread), do exist and for people to keep broadly saying 'women don't want that' is infuriating.

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You are being deliberately obtuse again.

If a woman goes to a single toilet in a cafe there is less risk than if she goes to a block of mixed sex toilets. This is because there are no other users in the single toilet in the cafe, but there may be other people in the mixed sex toilet.

A sexual predator is less able to attack you in a single toilet in a quiet cafe than they are in a large block of mixed sex toilets.

A camera is more likely to be found by staff in a single toilet in a cafe than it is to be found in a large block of mixed sex toilets.

A lot (most) women wouldn't want to use mixed sex toilets if there were a single sex option available.

This could be because they just want their lawful rights to privacy, dignity and (relative) safety, or they could be survivors of sexual violence, or from a conservative religion. These women all need and want single sex toilets.

You can continue to plop your head firmly in the sand and I hope it keeps fine for you, but don't piss on my shoes and try to tell me it's raining! Mixed sex spaces are less safe for women and girls, continue to say otherwise just makes you sound crushingly stupid, and I can tell from your posts that you aren't actually a stupid person which leads me to believe that you are doing this deliberately.

What reason could someone like you have for repeatedly telling women and girls that a very real risk is an imagined one? Who benefits from that I wonder?

DrPrunesqualer · 15/08/2025 12:44

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RufustheFactualReindeer · 15/08/2025 12:45

Not the ones I’ve used

really

i am happy for someone to say they have not been in a dirty mixed sex loo but you have never been in a mixed sex toilet where the seat is left up?

nah….

DrPrunesqualer · 15/08/2025 12:45

.

OneCoralCat · 15/08/2025 12:45

DrPrunesqualer · 15/08/2025 12:35

Everyone has a choice. But from a simple risk assessment pint of view mixed sex spaces such as toilets and changing rooms do present a risk to women

Some women might be fine with that but it doesn’t change the facts

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Some women might be fine with that but it doesn’t change the facts

It's the facts I'm struggling with, I just can't find any evidence that this is the case. It may well be and I just can't find it.

But appreciate the acknowledgement that some women might be fine with it. That's definitely better than being spoken for by PP's

OneCoralCat · 15/08/2025 12:46

RufustheFactualReindeer · 15/08/2025 12:45

Not the ones I’ve used

really

i am happy for someone to say they have not been in a dirty mixed sex loo but you have never been in a mixed sex toilet where the seat is left up?

nah….

I've been in more single sex loo's that have made me want to vomit than I can count. The disgusting habits of other people never fail to amaze me.

DrPrunesqualer · 15/08/2025 12:46

OneCoralCat · 15/08/2025 12:45

Some women might be fine with that but it doesn’t change the facts

It's the facts I'm struggling with, I just can't find any evidence that this is the case. It may well be and I just can't find it.

But appreciate the acknowledgement that some women might be fine with it. That's definitely better than being spoken for by PP's

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Google the news. I’ve just posted two articles. The Times also did a FOI on it some years ago

DrPrunesqualer · 15/08/2025 12:48

.apologies about the adverts I can’t be bothered to crop

DrPrunesqualer · 15/08/2025 12:48

.

OneCoralCat · 15/08/2025 12:52

CohensDiamondTeeth · 15/08/2025 12:37

You are being deliberately obtuse again.

If a woman goes to a single toilet in a cafe there is less risk than if she goes to a block of mixed sex toilets. This is because there are no other users in the single toilet in the cafe, but there may be other people in the mixed sex toilet.

A sexual predator is less able to attack you in a single toilet in a quiet cafe than they are in a large block of mixed sex toilets.

A camera is more likely to be found by staff in a single toilet in a cafe than it is to be found in a large block of mixed sex toilets.

A lot (most) women wouldn't want to use mixed sex toilets if there were a single sex option available.

This could be because they just want their lawful rights to privacy, dignity and (relative) safety, or they could be survivors of sexual violence, or from a conservative religion. These women all need and want single sex toilets.

You can continue to plop your head firmly in the sand and I hope it keeps fine for you, but don't piss on my shoes and try to tell me it's raining! Mixed sex spaces are less safe for women and girls, continue to say otherwise just makes you sound crushingly stupid, and I can tell from your posts that you aren't actually a stupid person which leads me to believe that you are doing this deliberately.

What reason could someone like you have for repeatedly telling women and girls that a very real risk is an imagined one? Who benefits from that I wonder?

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No one benefits from it. I just want to not be washed over and be spoken for repeatedly by people who say "no woman wants that", my owning of a vagina makes me very much a woman, and I couldn't care less. That's my only point.

"A lot (most) women wouldn't want to use mixed sex toilets if there were a single sex option available." - You have absolutely no evidence that this is the case, unless you have conducted an unbiased survey on the opinions of a huge sample of women. If you did a survey of everyone I know well - 100% of them would tell you they don't care. We've discussed it at length, multiple times when threads like this, or things in the news come up.

And finally, yes, being in a place with more people inherently increases your risk of coming into contact with someone nefarious - but that is true in literally every scenario, not just mixed sex loos - that was the point I was (probably badly) making about Tesco. I choose to judge every situation I'm in on it's own merits. A single sex loo at a railway station at night for example wouldn't make me feel safe purely by way of having a woman in a skirt on the door. Perhaps that is obtuse, but they are my opinions and the way I choose to live. If your risk analysis is done differently, that's fine, don't speak for me and I won't speak for you.

DrPrunesqualer · 15/08/2025 12:53

The poor Girl in this case at a gender neutral toilet at school had a huge gash on her head after trying to fight the boy off

again not cropped

OneCoralCat · 15/08/2025 12:55

DrPrunesqualer · 15/08/2025 12:46

Google the news. I’ve just posted two articles. The Times also did a FOI on it some years ago

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I've been told I'm being obtuse, but these refer to changing spaces, not toilets. Which is maybe where I'm being naïve. Would I want to go to an open changing room and share with men? Absolutely not. Would I be happy to be in changing rooms in shops with curtains and share with men, yeah probably, in a locked cubicle, definitely.

SirBasil · 15/08/2025 12:55

EchoedSilence · 15/08/2025 10:14

I quite happily use them. I'm obviously the wrong sort of MN woman.

you're fine. Fewer people in the queue for the ladies.

Winners all round, you get to use the loo, trans people get to use the loo and get the affirmation they want because women are using the same loo
women who don't want to use a mixed loo don't have to.

Where are the issues here?

DrPrunesqualer · 15/08/2025 12:58

OneCoralCat · 15/08/2025 12:52

No one benefits from it. I just want to not be washed over and be spoken for repeatedly by people who say "no woman wants that", my owning of a vagina makes me very much a woman, and I couldn't care less. That's my only point.

"A lot (most) women wouldn't want to use mixed sex toilets if there were a single sex option available." - You have absolutely no evidence that this is the case, unless you have conducted an unbiased survey on the opinions of a huge sample of women. If you did a survey of everyone I know well - 100% of them would tell you they don't care. We've discussed it at length, multiple times when threads like this, or things in the news come up.

And finally, yes, being in a place with more people inherently increases your risk of coming into contact with someone nefarious - but that is true in literally every scenario, not just mixed sex loos - that was the point I was (probably badly) making about Tesco. I choose to judge every situation I'm in on it's own merits. A single sex loo at a railway station at night for example wouldn't make me feel safe purely by way of having a woman in a skirt on the door. Perhaps that is obtuse, but they are my opinions and the way I choose to live. If your risk analysis is done differently, that's fine, don't speak for me and I won't speak for you.

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Of course I’m sure you’re aware there have been several You Govn surveys on this very subject and in fact the Government has used these to revise their laws and building regs

This article is from Sex Matters. Whilst Sex Matters is biased towards single sex spaces these figures are directly from the YouGovn survey

DrPrunesqualer · 15/08/2025 13:00

. So the majority of women want single sex spaces And that number has been increasing over the years as more and more cases of assault hit the news

DrPrunesqualer · 15/08/2025 13:01

OneCoralCat · 15/08/2025 12:55

I've been told I'm being obtuse, but these refer to changing spaces, not toilets. Which is maybe where I'm being naïve. Would I want to go to an open changing room and share with men? Absolutely not. Would I be happy to be in changing rooms in shops with curtains and share with men, yeah probably, in a locked cubicle, definitely.

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There’s intel on toilets too
In the news over many years, I have posted
If you’re not concerned then that’s fine. You won’t need to check out the news or stats.
That doesn’t mean there isn’t a problem and doesn’t mean the majority of women are and can be allowed to be concerned.

OneCoralCat · 15/08/2025 13:02

That's fine, no @DrPrunesqualer I wasn't aware there had been, how stupid I am.

I will have to remain with my original point then, that I don't want to be spoken for. I am perfectly happy to use them if they're there and I'm perfectly happy if other people don't want to use them. And that unisex toilets are not a new phenomenon, the outrage around them is.