About Gender neutral loo

[paulhollywoodshairgel]

I was in a museum today and my daughter (15) left me to go to the loo. She then waved me over.. she said to me.. I’d rather not use the gender neutral loo. I said that’s fine and sent her down a level to the ladies. A woman the approached me and preceded to tell me off for not encouraging my daughter to use the GN loo. How she has a trans child and how are they ever going to feel accepted with people like me around. I’m ND and I always second guess myself 10000 times a day. I wasn’t in the wrong was I?? I just said ok go and use the other separate loo. Surely my child can pee wherever she feels comfortable??!! I hate conflict so I just said ok and walked off!

Its really tiresome having to point out the obvious, but if I scream in a small cafe I'm likely to be noticed straight away.

That's an entirely different issue then isn't it. Your worry is being attacked. Not having a camera installed or the loo being dirty.

If you scream in a museum toilet, someone will hear you. I've not seen any data that firmly says attacks are more common in mixed sex loos, but either way, you're entitled to feel that way. But I was asking the people worried about cameras and wee on the floor, no one had mentioned screaming or being attacked prior to that.

If you scream in the unisex loos in a large building the people behind you in the queue and in adjacent cubicles would notice straightaway.

If you scream in a mixed sex space there's a risk you'll attract more predators, not a knight in shining armour.

That’d be difficult.

OK 🙄

Where are you going to the loo?! Broadmoor?

🤣

I so wish we still had the laugh reaction.

It's really simple, unless of course you are determined to be obtuse.

Larger mixed sex toilets get more footfall which increases any risks.

I've not seen any data that firmly says attacks are more common in mixed sex loos

Just because you've not seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It's pretty bloody obvious that women are at more risk when in mixed sex toilets.

You are so cool.

Quick google gives me these two links, but there is far more out there.

Unisex changing rooms put women at danger of sexual assault, data reveals | The Independent | The Independent

Toilets-matter.pdf

Why thank you 😎

Maybe she’s been in mixed sex loos before like I have and found them with piss all over the seat/floor, and decided the ladie’s loos are generally cleaner and more pleasant to use?
One guy went the whole hog and left it not only blocked but smeared in 💩 (it was a single mixed sex loo in a coffee shop, and I went in straight after him so knew who it was)
So yeah, women only loos all the way if I have a choice.

YANBU

Women and girls are not emotional support humans.

I'm not being deliberately obtuse.

One predator is all it takes to install a camera. That could happen in one toilet, or a row of 20. One person can wee all over the place, that can happen in one cubicle or 20. Of course more toilets equal more people. But that's the same with anything isn't it. There are more people in Tesco, than your corner shop, so do you avoid Tesco as you're more likely to run into a robber there? It's baffling logic.

And there could be others of the opposite sex to assist you, supposedly

The first one isn't even about toilets, it's about changing rooms.

The second one doesn't have any data about attacks in toilets, just guidance on best practice and the law, and peoples opinions on why they don't want to use mixed spaces.

Well yes it could but then you look at the number and profile of customers when assessing the level of risk.

A high traffic area with a huge mix of ages and is going to present a higher risk of an issue than a quaint cafe frequented by old couples that have have only just bought their first iPhone and wouldn’t have the first idea (or desire) how to get hold of a micro camera and install it.

Im not saying that ALL ageing couples either limited technology expertise are safe but the likelihood is far higher than with other groups.

Thats how we operate in society, we can’t eliminate all risks but we need to take reasonable steps to minimise them where possible.

Unisex toilets are less safe in a number of ways. 11% of hearts attacks happen in a public space and people often head to the toilets when unwell. Other medical issues as uh as fits, strokes etc. If a seriously unwell person is in an enclosed room and collapses, they are far less likely to be discovered until it us too late. A lady died in those circumstances just recently.

There is also a greater risk of being pushed into a unisex room and attacked by a man - this has happened a number of times - a n man raped a woman in a nightclub not so long ago and other women have reported being violently attacked. Once you are locked in, it’s harder to escape.

Single sex (properly enforced) cubicles are the safest, and generally most desirable toilets.

Some people have no boundaries of privacy from the opposite sex, airily promote unisex toilets and sadly teach their children to have no boundaries. That only benefits one type of man.

What’s the difference? Women are still getting their clothes off.

I'd have told her to fuck right off and keep her weirdo kid away from me.

Do you understand how we assess risks and the need for safeguards generally?

No WAY were you in the wrong.

I think you are being deliberately obtuse.

Your tesco example is stupid. You could be robbed in tesco yes, but I'd expect it to happen in a quieter area (like the toilets) where there was more chance of getting you alone where you are more vulnerable, and less likely that they would be spotted by anyone who might intervene or report them... Similar to how a sexual predator is more likely to assault a woman in a quiet tesco toilet than in an aisle.

This is about increased risk to women and girls in mixed sex toilets. So yes there is still a risk of a hidden camera in a cafe's single use mixed toilet, but with less footfall to that toilet and cafe staff who check as well as clean it, the chances of a hidden camera being found in that toilet are higher.

Do you lock your door to prevent theft of your household belongings? Why? Surely your house could be broken into and your things stolen anyway right? If you lock your door surely it's less likely that some opportunist could just waltz in and take your things? This is not a perfect analogy but the basic stuff is there.

We know there are risks to things, we mitigate those risks as best we can, so for toilets we keep them single sex in order to mitigate risk to women and girls.

It's about risk prevention and harm reduction because total prevention is sadly not achievable.

I've never stripped off to go to the loo and always do so behind a locked cubicle door. Communal changing rooms with curtains for example would be entirely different.